eXpanse , Serum , Europa and ReSpire modulations functions

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Re8et
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04 Oct 2017

Crossing forum section thread! Here we are! As Serum is not an RE but it has to do it!

OK, I'm in my final week of trialling eXpanse, and I got to compare it with Serum for some unique features between the two and Spire as well. As Europa we do not still know it is not included, just couple more weeks wait.

I went to compare the mods features of these Synths. Each is different.

eXpanse has THREE mods knobs available per OSC *4 , Each with internal or external Mod amount CV capabilites and several maths functions
expanse mod.JPG
expanse mod.JPG (27.12 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
Serum, while having insane other features, has one knob mod per Osc *to Ex, and different functions, one of which, the FM Noise osc function has a draw/import function by itself.
Serum mods.JPG
Serum mods.JPG (47.97 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
ReSpire mods are two per function, one for OSC *4, but these functions behave like Base modulation. You can not switch it off from the WT. It's part of the Osc structure.
Respire mod.JPG
Respire mod.JPG (13.38 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
Last edited by Re8et on 04 Oct 2017, edited 2 times in total.

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Oquasec
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04 Oct 2017

The answer is not versus. Use all the ones you like and not the ones you do not feel like using or you think doesn't fit your paradigm for what you make.
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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Loque
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04 Oct 2017

ReSpire has 6 modifiers? I must have missed something... If you count the knobs around and not the functions, ok... I count 3 modifiers, but the interesting point is here to use waves.
Reason12, Win10

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Re8et
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04 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
04 Oct 2017
ReSpire has 6 modifiers? I must have missed something... If you count the knobs around and not the functions, ok... I count 3 modifiers, but the interesting point is here to use waves.
Functions... modifiers... it's neither clear to me but this comes from the manual. I like the code way also to think of waves.
Spire mods manual.JPG
Spire mods manual.JPG (310.69 KiB) Viewed 1766 times
By default this thread is not a competition, to whom is the winner, yet vs in this case is just a vector, not a splitter. All Synths has their niche. Hope to have filled the thoughts, Oquasec.

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Re8et
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04 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
04 Oct 2017
ReSpire has 6 modifiers? I must have missed something... If you count the knobs around and not the functions, ok... I count 3 modifiers, but the interesting point is here to use waves.
EDIT, changed thread title to more comprehensive and content. Tnx both 0Q and Loque.

Ok, sorry for the confusion in the latter post. and the in the first part of the thread, I mentioned three mod for the expanse, I mean three mod slots, each with one knob, with the functions being those on the curtain list.
Serum has one mod slot but several mod functions as eXpanse, and the Respire has tho mod knobs per function, which are six.

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eXode
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04 Oct 2017

One thing that is unique for eXpanse among these synths is the harmonic multiplier/partial editor, since it operates from the osc wavefom and not just sines like traditional additive synths. You can also set the mods to operate per partial (PRE) or on the final waveform after (POST).

A good example to help understand this concept is to select a basic sawtooth, drop -1 octave, and enable only the 2nd partial (this will be one oct above root).

If you now select i.e. the PD modifier and tweak the amount, try switching between PRE and POST to see/hear the result and differences in operation. Post can also be useful if you have drawn your own complex waveform from sines or similar. In and Out (Bend) is a nice mod to use on complex waveforms as well.

madmacman
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04 Oct 2017

Re8et wrote:
04 Oct 2017
OK, I'm in my final week of trialling eXpanse, and I got to compare it with Serum for some unique features between the two and Spire as well. As Europa we do not still know it is not included, just couple more weeks wait.
Regarding Europe we have at least a glimpse of what's coming from the Video (at 16:51):

Two modifiers with a number of different functions:
SCR1.png
SCR1.png (115.87 KiB) Viewed 1687 times

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alex
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04 Oct 2017

eXode wrote:
04 Oct 2017
One thing that is unique for eXpanse among these synths is the harmonic multiplier/partial editor, since it operates from the osc wavefom and not just sines like traditional additive synths. You can also set the mods to operate per partial (PRE) or on the final waveform after (POST).
+1 to the harmonic multiplier/partial editor, it's a brilliant feature that sets eXpanse apart from the other synths imo.

Talking about this, I always wondered if there's a way to control the overall level of the partials, minus the fundamental (I mean the whole partials pattern except the "first harmonic", so to speak).
I think it could lead to interesting results.
For example, sometimes I draw many partials and then I wish I could lower them all at once if the final sound is too bright or keytrack them via the "note" mod source so that I can "dampen" the higher/lower notes only or, again, when a modifier is in POST mode, raise and lower the harmonic content that sent to it, according to a CC sequence/LFO shape... Wouldn't that be cool? :P

Sorry for derailing the thread a bit :)
The best things happen after reading the manual. ;)
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Exowildebeest
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04 Oct 2017

alex wrote:
04 Oct 2017
eXode wrote:
04 Oct 2017
One thing that is unique for eXpanse among these synths is the harmonic multiplier/partial editor, since it operates from the osc wavefom and not just sines like traditional additive synths. You can also set the mods to operate per partial (PRE) or on the final waveform after (POST).
+1 to the harmonic multiplier/partial editor, it's a brilliant feature that sets eXpanse apart from the other synths imo.

Talking about this, I always wondered if there's a way to control the overall level of the partials, minus the fundamental (I mean the whole partials pattern except the "first harmonic", so to speak).
I think it could lead to interesting results.
For example, sometimes I draw many partials and then I wish I could lower them all at once if the final sound is too bright or keytrack them via the "note" mod source so that I can "dampen" the higher/lower notes only or, again, when a modifier is in POST mode, raise and lower the harmonic content that sent to it, according to a CC sequence/LFO shape... Wouldn't that be cool? :P

Sorry for derailing the thread a bit :)
I agree the partials of Expanse are awesome - pitching down oscillators with loads of partials makes for very rich sounds.

Regarding your sounddesign idea, I think the Lowpass filter modifier comes close. That dampens the higher harmonics. You can track the LPF amount by note in the modmatrix.

Edit: to make it even closer to what you described, use this method on the 1st osc minus the fundamental and just play the fundamental in the 2nd osc.

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alex
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04 Oct 2017

Exowildebeest wrote:
04 Oct 2017

I agree the partials of Expanse are awesome - pitching down oscillators with loads of partials makes for very rich sounds.

Regarding your sounddesign idea, I think the Lowpass filter modifier comes close. That dampens the higher harmonics. You can track the LPF amount by note in the modmatrix.

Edit: to make it even closer to what you described, use this method on the 1st osc minus the fundamental and just play the fundamental in the 2nd osc.
Yeah both are very nice workarounds, :thumbs_up: I experimented with them a bit and as you say they comes close but there are some limits I think:
- the lpf modifier is certainly good for dampening but it doesn't seems to remove completely upper harmonics if you need that (you can use two of them in series to get a more pronounced cut but then you "loose" 2 modifier slots)
- if you employ the second oscillator as the "upper harmonics" layer then you cannot apply a modifier in POST mode that acts on both oscillators.

For fun, I've just made a patch with one oscillator, and an harmonics pattern on it, that uses the LPF modifier to "mask" (or dampen) harmonics before the "Fold" modifier, both in POST mode. The LPF is controlled by the modwheel.
In the combinator I added an OTT to increase the sharpness.
Expanse is real fun to use! :)
Attachments
eXpanse - Bass - LowPassed Partials 01 - CVX.zip
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The best things happen after reading the manual. ;)
:reason: :re: :refill: :ignition:

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bsp
Posts: 214
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04 Oct 2017

Re8et wrote:
04 Oct 2017
Crossing forum section thread! Here we are! As Serum is not an RE but it has to do it!

OK, I'm in my final week of trialling eXpanse, and I got to compare it with Serum for some unique features between the two and Spire as well. As Europa we do not still know it is not included, just couple more weeks wait.

I went to compare the mods features of these Synths. Each is different.
There is another option: UVI Falcon.

It only has one modulation knob (with 10 mod types to choose from), though.

Falcon also has FM, physical modeling (plucked string), VA, grain cloud, sample (with round robin and sample start modulation), and timestretch oscillators.

Plus a ton of filters, effects, and some absolutely insane (!) modulation possibilities that go far beyond a mod matrix.

What I especially like about it is that it is very optimized (i.e. low CPU usage), that you can select layers via CCs (modwheel etc) without cutting off the previous sound, and that you can modulate practically everything. (EDIT: It also has microtuning (scala) and very snappy 1000Hz modulation!)

Its macros can act like a combinator with unlimited knobs and it's possible to non-destructively modulate your patch (very musical !).

When it's run outside of Reason (standalone or in a proper VST host) it also supports polyphonic pressure events, program changes, up to 16 multitimbral programs, and MPE.

It seems expensive (349e) but you get a lot for your money.

I for one have bought a lot of inexpensive (soft-)synths and effects over the years that I hardly used, and that really adds up (to a lot more than 350 bucks!). So it's all relative.
Better to get a few good synths than a ton of mediocre ones, I guess ;)

I'm still in the honeymoon phase but I've done some extensive testing already and think that Falcon is really good.

The main problem is that there is no demo version so you have to take a leap of faith.

Well, it all really depends on what exactly you're looking for. Just some food for thought.

All the synths you've listed are good in their own way.

I am actually looking forward to Europa and think it sounded amazing in the video demo.

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