Ochen K?

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Goodbye
Posts: 220
Joined: 21 May 2017

17 Nov 2017

Also I'm pretty sure I've seen you pushing for re-tries of REs in this forum. And that would instead be free for you, right?
I'm not sure what relevance that has. I don't want anything for free or peanuts. I just think that having a trial based on time from start isn't a good way to trial something compared to days used.

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joeyluck
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17 Nov 2017

Goodbye wrote:
17 Nov 2017
Also I'm pretty sure I've seen you pushing for re-tries of REs in this forum. And that would instead be free for you, right?
I'm not sure what relevance that has. I don't want anything for free or peanuts. I just think that having a trial based on time from start isn't a good way to trial something compared to days used.
Sorry, that reply wasn't to you directly, but to Faastwalker's reply and cosigning of the comments... and to people in general who rally for re-trials; mostly saying since enough time has passed, they should be able to try it again.

From the beginning when I proposed RE renting or subscribing (which I did only a couple weeks after R6.5 was released), it started as a subscription idea and then I started pitching it as an individual RE rental. Either way, I always saw it as a way to retry something or to collaborate with someone who owned a RE that you might not care to ever purchase and own for your own projects. I always thought that $9 to rent any one RE for an additional 30 days would be gracious. I see it as a huge privilege; to be able to use something for additional time beyond the 30 day trial. And I too always saw the potential flaw in the 30-day trial when life happens and you end up wasting a trial. But I had no problem with the idea of paying for the chance to try that RE again.

My hope is that developers ultimately see revenue from sales sparked by new curiosity and experiences users have when subscribing to a Rack Extension. Maybe there will be changes in the price structure in the future? Which I'm sure would then have some of the other side (customers) complaining about. Or maybe changes to the entire model and it develops into a simple rent-to-own? I think for now, the subscription model at least brings something new and different and exciting to the format while new customers are coming on board and REs are now more directly competing with VSTs for attention.

So my comments were not meant to be interpreted as, "Be happy with the peanuts," but more of a, "Look on the bright side and from the angle if subscriptions didn't exist" because I otherwise wouldn't have put forth any money into some of the REs I ended up subscribing to...

Goodbye
Posts: 220
Joined: 21 May 2017

17 Nov 2017

I think they've massively underpriced the subscriptions. It betrays a complete lack of confidence in REs and a clumsy attempt at pulling in some extra revenue.

Perhaps Propellerhead will change things up, but I expect nothing other than the glib corporate sound-bytes about how they are 'listening' and how much they 'believe' that seems to be what passes for engagement nowadays.

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chimp_spanner
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17 Nov 2017

MattiasHG wrote:
15 Nov 2017


Couple things:
  • VST support came to be because it was the number one feature request and the things that kept the most people from checking out Reason. When I became Product Manager, all research I did pointed toward it being essentials for Reason as a DAW.
  • Europa and Grain are Rack Extensions built with the same SDK you have access to but presented as native devices for ease of use. In other words, they are not running more efficiently because of the platform. We eat our own dog food, so to speak.
  • When designing Europa, we actually tried hard to differentiate it from eXpanse—not rip anything off. Expanse is a great synth in its own right and still unique next to Europa. When designing these instruments we primarily looked at user needs and the market at large, not specific products.
  • I personally still don't think VST is a conflict of interest with REs in the long run. My hope was (and still is) that it becomes very apparent why we created REs to begin with. Personally, after getting a lot of VSTs for testing purposes, I've ended up just using three or four. The rest of my devices are REs. It's just easier to work with in the Reason environment.
  • We'll keep updating the Rack Extension SDK and platform. We believe in it and it does amazing things that no other plug-in format does.
I'm in the same boat - initially I installed ALL the VSTs. But in time I found myself using like, Kontakt, Superior and POD Farm. Everything else is RE because I just love the way those devices work in the context of the rack. What would really be sick is if the SDK got updated to allow devs to code racks that behave more like the old stock instruments (that is, custom context menus, pattern to track, pull out sections like the Kong and RV programmers, etc. etc.). I don't know in what way those devices differ to the new generation of REs. It's interesting that you guys chose to use the RE SDK to create Europa and Grain. This would suggest (at least to me) that it has some real advantages over however you *used* to make instruments. But...that's pure speculation on my part!!

Either way, I feel REs are still front and centre of my productions. Way more so than VSTs. And I think/hope that new users will come to feel that way, even if they initially jump over to Reason as "just" another VST host.

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O1B
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17 Nov 2017

You, Go! Nice one.

I don't own 4MER - thought I did -, but pretty much everything else OChen K.
I wish you well in your polymathic pursuits. You too, OChen K.

And WendyLou. If you read this. Don't dispair. Don't give up.
Your music has great potential. You just haven't added the no-lye relaxer.
Maybe think about how to make it a little more .. Exciting...? no.
Mesmerizing.
Be well.
Gorgon wrote:
16 Nov 2017
Negative comment removed after reviewing it.

Instead, I'll say something positive. I just bought 4Mer to show support for OchenK. :D

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Quiloc Lim
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17 Nov 2017

TritoneAddiction wrote:
16 Nov 2017
For any RE developers reading this, I'm still gonna buy the REs that interests me. I'm not really interested in the subscription model.
Also I'd much rather buy REs than VSTs. So for me the RE format is far from dead.

I really hope not every RE developer quits. I'm sure more people feel the same way, right?
I am 100% in agreeance with TritoneAddiction's statement. I feel the same way.

I have no intention of using the subscription model to try out / use REs. If I try / trial an RE and not return to using it a couple times during the trial, I admit to myself it's not a tool that I'm probably going to use very often. Not all tools are going to work for every end users. That happens in every market... for every tool... used in every trade. I'm very grateful for the opportunity to EVEN trial REs.

I have nothing against VSTs, those that develop them, or those that use them. They are great tools to have available to use. Just like REs, some sound good, some don't. I started out with Cubase in the 90s and bought plenty of them back then. Obviously, there were not loads of free ones available online back then. Buying them at Guitar Center, in a box, on a floppy disc was the way to go. With Reason ver 9.5, I've added several VSTs to my rack, tried out the presets and have yet to return to using any one of them on a track. I guess I've gotten so used to the workflow of stock devices & REs that I don't think of using my VSTs. And that's ok. To each their own.

I really hope that RE developers continue to make improvements to REs & create new ones. That goes for refill developers. I really enjoy learning how Refill developers put together patches & combinators. I'm buying Bitley's Fairlight Platinum refill for myself for Christmas. Looks like extremely good value for the money.

Anyway...

I'm hopeful that the Props continue to improve Reason & that all the RE developers & refill content creators can find it viable to continue supporting the programs users. The users need to support the developers as well. :thumbup:

Reason is reason I'm able to make the music I do & I'm grateful.

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Gorgon
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17 Nov 2017

O1B wrote:
17 Nov 2017
You, Go! Nice one.

I don't own 4MER - thought I did -, but pretty much everything else OChen K.
I wish you well in your polymathic pursuits. You too, OChen K.

And WendyLou. If you read this. Don't dispair. Don't give up.
Your music has great potential. You just haven't added the no-lye relaxer.
Maybe think about how to make it a little more .. Exciting...? no.
Mesmerizing.
Be well.
Gorgon wrote:
16 Nov 2017
Negative comment removed after reviewing it.

Instead, I'll say something positive. I just bought 4Mer to show support for OchenK. :D
4mer sounds pretty good. Very inspiring.
"This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit."

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EnochLight
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18 Nov 2017

Goodbye wrote:
17 Nov 2017
I think they've massively underpriced the subscriptions. It betrays a complete lack of confidence in REs and a clumsy attempt at pulling in some extra revenue.

Perhaps Propellerhead will change things up, but I expect nothing other than the glib corporate sound-bytes about how they are 'listening' and how much they 'believe' that seems to be what passes for engagement nowadays.
I think they've priced the subscriptions perfectly, as I doubt potential subscribers would consider paying anything more. Suggesting that there's a complete lack of confidence in RE's or it's clumsy seems woefully out of touch with what customers want and what Propellerhead are attempting to deliver. They're a business, and solely in business to make money anyway - I'm not sure why anyone would think different. People act like they make these decisions without doing any market research. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Things are only as glib as you want them to be, really. But there's that glass half empty for you, I suppose.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

Goodbye
Posts: 220
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18 Nov 2017

EnochLight wrote:
18 Nov 2017
Goodbye wrote:
17 Nov 2017
I think they've massively underpriced the subscriptions. It betrays a complete lack of confidence in REs and a clumsy attempt at pulling in some extra revenue.

Perhaps Propellerhead will change things up, but I expect nothing other than the glib corporate sound-bytes about how they are 'listening' and how much they 'believe' that seems to be what passes for engagement nowadays.
I think they've priced the subscriptions perfectly, as I doubt potential subscribers would consider paying anything more. Suggesting that there's a complete lack of confidence in RE's or it's clumsy seems woefully out of touch with what customers want and what Propellerhead are attempting to deliver. They're a business, and solely in business to make money anyway - I'm not sure why anyone would think different. People act like they make these decisions without doing any market research. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Things are only as glib as you want them to be, really. But there's that glass half empty for you, I suppose.
I love that you equate the fact that 'they are a business' with the assumption that they are making good decisions. It's quite possible to be a business and make crap decisions. Nobody has said that they aren't doing any market research. Just like nobody has said they are trying to do anything but 'make money'. Your response is classic straw man. You argue back against things that haven't been said.

I think its pretty clear that RE developers are betting shafted in terms of how much thy are making from subscriptions. I'm guessing you're fine with that as you say 'I think they've priced the subscriptions perfectly', but even if we forget (as you seem to have) the ethical reasons why this isn't right, it is also fundamentally bad for the RE ecosystem long-term because developers won't stay.

Your glass may be half full, but it's half full of bullshit.

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joeyluck
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18 Nov 2017

Goodbye wrote:
18 Nov 2017
EnochLight wrote:
18 Nov 2017


I think they've priced the subscriptions perfectly, as I doubt potential subscribers would consider paying anything more. Suggesting that there's a complete lack of confidence in RE's or it's clumsy seems woefully out of touch with what customers want and what Propellerhead are attempting to deliver. They're a business, and solely in business to make money anyway - I'm not sure why anyone would think different. People act like they make these decisions without doing any market research. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Things are only as glib as you want them to be, really. But there's that glass half empty for you, I suppose.
I love that you equate the fact that 'they are a business' with the assumption that they are making good decisions. It's quite possible to be a business and make crap decisions. Nobody has said that they aren't doing any market research. Just like nobody has said they are trying to do anything but 'make money'. Your response is classic straw man. You argue back against things that haven't been said.

I think its pretty clear that RE developers are betting shafted in terms of how much thy are making from subscriptions. I'm guessing you're fine with that as you say 'I think they've priced the subscriptions perfectly', but even if we forget (as you seem to have) the ethical reasons why this isn't right, it is also fundamentally bad for the RE ecosystem long-term because developers won't stay.

Your glass may be half full, but it's half full of bullshit.
I still think it's much too early to conclude anything. We've only seen the first month; and WE haven't really seen everything about that first month. Just a couple of experiences.

Reason 10 was released, many users are spending their money on upgrading, subscriptions are brand new, people are holding onto their money for Black Friday and the holidays... It's just too early and a weird time to make anything of it.

I think it could be worthwhile to revisit this in a few months or a year, interview many developers, interview Reason users, and see what's what then.

Goodbye
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18 Nov 2017

I think it could be worthwhile to revisit this in a few months or a year, interview many developers, interview Reason users, and see what's what then.
Yes. It is mainly conjecture at this point. The truth will out, and I hope I'm wrong.

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eXode
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18 Nov 2017

joeyluck wrote:
18 Nov 2017
I still think it's much too early to conclude anything. We've only seen the first month; and WE haven't really seen everything about that first month. Just a couple of experiences.
Except it hasn't been just a month, more like 6 months (pretty much since 9.5/VST). :roll:

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joeyluck
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18 Nov 2017

eXode wrote:
18 Nov 2017
joeyluck wrote:
18 Nov 2017
I still think it's much too early to conclude anything. We've only seen the first month; and WE haven't really seen everything about that first month. Just a couple of experiences.
Except it hasn't been just a month, more like 6 months (pretty much since 9.5/VST). :roll:
Talking about subscriptions

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eXode
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18 Nov 2017

joeyluck wrote:
18 Nov 2017
eXode wrote:
18 Nov 2017

Except it hasn't been just a month, more like 6 months (pretty much since 9.5/VST). :roll:
Talking about subscriptions
The two are tied together whether you like it or not.

It's funny, when it comes to propellerheads people go "Oh, but they are a business, bla bla". With all due respect, RE developers are trying to make ends meet too, regardless if it's a source of extra income, or trying to make a living, it is still work.

Goodbye
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18 Nov 2017

Except it hasn't been just a month, more like 6 months (pretty much since 9.5/VST).
This is actually an interesting point. Obviously Propellerhead are never going to publish figures for sales, but It would be really illuminating to see a chart of RE releases vs time. Given that it takes time to develop on RE, six months should be long enough to start seeing a trend, but we will need more time to really see the effect. Another interesting metric would be the number of new developers over time.
It's funny, when it comes to propellerheads people go "Oh, but they are a business, bla bla". With all due respect, RE developers are trying to make ends meet too, regardless if it's a source of extra income, or trying to make a living, it is still work.
Yep. It's ironic that the same people who say "It's a business" to legitimise anything Propellerhead do, don't apply the same attitude to RE developers - there seems to be a perception that they should be grateful and accepting no matter what Propellerhead do.

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FLVZ
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18 Nov 2017

Goodbye wrote:
18 Nov 2017


I think its pretty clear that RE developers are betting shafted in terms of how much thy are making from subscriptions. I'm guessing you're fine with that as you say 'I think they've priced the subscriptions perfectly', but even if we forget (as you seem to have) the ethical reasons why this isn't right, it is also fundamentally bad for the RE ecosystem long-term because developers won't stay.
I think both of you are correct to an extent. I think £400 worth of REs is too high an order at £9 a month. It should be something like £150, then for the £19 a month you get maybe £300 worth and for £30 you're getting £500 worth. The reason sub models were implemented for companies that do VSTs & other creative programs is because of piracy amongst other things. Propellerhead have done a great job of protecting devs from that but these sub packages shouldn't be scaled so ridiculously high in value that devs make peanuts off them. To be honest I'm not surprised Softube opted not to get involved if they actually aren't participating. The benefits seem to be one sided, I also recently cancelled my Spotify account for this very Reason. Upon looking into audiobook services and realising with audible I might only get one book a month but I get to keep it, it made me think "why am I spending £120 a year on music and keeping nothing at all, when actually I can buy £120 of albums a year and actually support those I listen to, whilst actually owning the music." I'm probably not going to support a system that doesn't seem sustainable nor ethical!

Goodbye
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18 Nov 2017

It's quite an interesting time at the moment. I think more people are starting to realise that in most cases subscription models are only benefiting the companies running them and starting to realise that the value from buying comes as much from supporting the creators as owning a product. Propellerhead are just woefully late to the game and rather than execute in a way that benefits the developers have followed the original Spotify model of creating a great value proposition for users at the expense of a terrible value proposition for developers.

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JiggeryPokery
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18 Nov 2017

joeyluck wrote:
17 Nov 2017
I was making a point that I subscribed to something specifically to fill a gap in my subscription... something that I didn't use during my subscription and had no plans of buying. That without subscriptions in place, from the angle of me as a customer, it would have made no difference today. Unless that difference might be me subscribing to an item (somewhat at random to fill my cart) leading to me saying, "Hey, not sure what I missed when I trialed this, but this is awesome" and then I buy it. And that could not have happened before. And statistics like those we might not see yet since it's early and subscriptions just wrapped their first month along with Reason 10 being released.

Also I'm pretty sure I've seen you pushing for re-tries of REs in this forum. And that would instead be free for you, right?
Absolutely, and I've also been one of those long calling for free retrials too, but PH have now explicity said that's never going to happen when Nostromo 2 was released, and the reason is probably that the subscription system provides an option for paid retrials. As you correctly note, that may often lead to an outright purchase, and I can't disagree that's a good thing: as I wrote in my previous post, it's a definite positive, even while I, and most devs who have discussed the issue openly, would still have preferred they just allowed devs to set a damn free retrial flag and let us decide how we want to run our updates.

But—and this is really, really important, joey—that usage model is NOT a subscription.

A subscription is a regular payment in return for access to a service; if you don't pay, you don't get the service.

If you are doing a paid retrial, cancelling during the month before it's recharged, that's a HIRE.

If you need eXpanse this month, and then you cancel it before you're recharged for the following month, and then you find you need it again in six months and get it for another month, that's merely another HIRE. It's the equivalent to me going to HSS once every five years and getting a carpet cleaner. I pay for it regularly, but no-one in their right mind would call it a subscription: I rehire it. <looks at floor... that reminds me... :oops: >

So unless you have Combo 310U, as in your example, or any other device in your subscription package for at least six or twelve months, which are typical periods that tend to be quoted as minimum subscription term for services (and even if the recurring payment period itself is monthly), it cannot seriously be considered subscribing to it, it's a short-term hire. As soon as PH said "they can subscribe but cancel at any time without penalty", then that's a hire model that can also be used for long-term subscriptions, not the other way around. By making it so flexible so as not to upset users by tying them into long-term payments, they've inverted the intended process. The penalty for canceling a Creative Cloud subscription is you can't use any product in Creative Cloud. The penalty for not subscribing to eXpanse is merely that you still get to use Thor, Grain or Europa or whatever is available as part of your current Reason version, and you've run the useful "bounce in place" on all the eXpanse tracks you created during the hire should you want to revisit that mix without needed to hire again, or buy eXpanse, and] the patches you used are still probably stored in the RE placeholder device for future recall if you do opt later to rehire it and want to revoice anything. So for the user, it's all upside.

And in the "fill it up with random stuff" scenario you posit it's also not unlikely that some people might even add devices to a subscription just to make up the value that they've actually never trialled before, so they'd be paying for a trial of something they could still have trialled for free. That would be a user decision and mistake to make, but it's an intended side-effect of the way the model has been set up. As I was trying to "fill" up the $500 value I could see how easy it would be for some people to forget that and make such an error of judgment. "Why would I add this?" I wondered. "I've not actually done the free trial for it"! Earning a few extra pennies on first-run trials, well that's a handy error for a some users to make for us developers, we shouldn't complain! But I'm also a consumer: from the dev's side of the fence that feels a little bit like reaching over it and shaking next door's tree to see what falls out of it onto our side.

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JiggeryPokery
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18 Nov 2017

EnochLight wrote:
18 Nov 2017
I think they've priced the subscriptions perfectly, as I doubt potential subscribers would consider paying anything more. Suggesting that there's a complete lack of confidence in RE's or it's clumsy seems woefully out of touch with what customers want and what Propellerhead are attempting to deliver. They're a business, and solely in business to make money anyway - I'm not sure why anyone would think different. People act like they make these decisions without doing any market research. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Market research doesn't tend to work that way. (Market research was my first badly-paid job out of university, so for once I know of what I speak ;) ).

The way it works is a business decides what result they want, so they run the market research based on achieving that result. They do this either in-house, or spend 000s on hiring an external outfit, and from the data gleaned they get one of two results:

1) The metrics predictably favour the intended plan, in which case they proceed with that plan as in their original proposal.

2) The metrics are somehow and surprisingly against their intended plan, in which case they proceed with that plan as in their original proposal.

So, it's very, very hard to change the mindset of large businesses.

The price of tiers are fine in themselves, so here's a direct question.

Should hiring one item alone for $9 return to the product developer $1, and return $5 to PH?

If "yes", you're stating that only PH are allowed to be a business and earn revenue, and that devs should not expect a fair return.

If "no", you must accept that the subs model as currently implemented is flawed.

They are solely in business to make money, sure. But Enoch, reread your comment in another way: they are not soley in business, RE developers are in a business partnership with them. So their decisions do materially effect us and maybe they are "woefully out of touch" with what developers need. FWIW, I was asked about VST support and subs back in February, and I responded, explained a number potential drawbacks on the developer side.

And you can see what I mean in action. Take the official response I got above on this very thread: "[REs do] amazing things that no other plug-in format does". I'm not sure who that's aimed at. It's not aimed at me or any other developer, as we all know what it can and can't do. So what does that even mean? It's probably had every dev who read that scatching their heads for days now: REs don't even have the unique luxury of being the only plugin that work in Reason anymore. Amazing things that no other plug-in does? Seriously? Mattias had better name one, and it had better be "amazing". "REs fit in the classic 754px width rack without a container" does not count! :lol:

Yay, market research! Nearly forgot: time for my favourite YPM clip!


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EnochLight
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18 Nov 2017

Goodbye wrote:
18 Nov 2017
I love that you equate the fact that 'they are a business' with the assumption that they are making good decisions. It's quite possible to be a business and make crap decisions. Nobody has said that they aren't doing any market research. Just like nobody has said they are trying to do anything but 'make money'. Your response is classic straw man. You argue back against things that haven't been said.

I think its pretty clear that RE developers are betting shafted in terms of how much thy are making from subscriptions. I'm guessing you're fine with that as you say 'I think they've priced the subscriptions perfectly', but even if we forget (as you seem to have) the ethical reasons why this isn't right, it is also fundamentally bad for the RE ecosystem long-term because developers won't stay.

Your glass may be half full, but it's half full of bullshit.
You either "get" the share economy, or you don't. Simple as that. You assuming that devs won't stay, or come, or that the RE market in general won't survive is pure hyperbole. But it's fun to speculate, 'aint it? ;) I never said that devs were getting a square deal.

If my cup is half full of bullshit, it's only half as full as the cup you are serving.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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18 Nov 2017

You either "get" the share economy, or you don't. Simple as that.
I think the subtleties of the share economy are a little more complex than 'getting it' or 'not getting it'. In my opinion it works in some cases, but too often is utilised as a way to shaft the little guy under the banner of sharing.
Amazing things that no other plug-in does? Seriously? Mattias had better name one, and it had better be "amazing". "REs fit in the classic 754px width rack without a container" does not count! :lol:
I for one would be really interested to see that list.

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esselfortium
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18 Nov 2017

JiggeryPokery wrote:
18 Nov 2017
The price of tiers are fine in themselves, so here's a direct question.

Should hiring one item alone for $9 return to the product developer $1, and return $5 to PH?
That is definitely not right at all.
Sarah Mancuso
My music: Future Human

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EnochLight
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18 Nov 2017

Goodbye wrote:
18 Nov 2017
JiggeryPokery wrote:
18 Nov 2017
Amazing things that no other plug-in does? Seriously? Mattias had better name one, and it had better be "amazing".


I for one would be really interested to see that list.

I'm a little shocked at Matt's comment, because he of all people should know exactly what Mattias means. But for shits and giggles, I'll indulge you all since it seems, sadly, people need reminding:
  • For the consumer and dev: true native Reason rack integration, including CV, patch browser, etc
  • For the dev: 100% rock solid copy protection
  • For the consumer: instant "sync all" for all RE's via your account; easy license managing
  • For the dev: no need to manage a store front or infrastructure - it's all handled for you
  • For the dev and consumer: shop for all extensions in one place
  • For the consumer and dev: rock solid stability via Reason
Please don't act like these things are not valuable nor unique to Reason. If you've spent any time out there managing your VST plugins, you'd know that this is a big deal.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

Goodbye
Posts: 220
Joined: 21 May 2017

18 Nov 2017

EnochLight wrote:
18 Nov 2017
Goodbye wrote:
18 Nov 2017


I for one would be really interested to see that list.

I'm a little shocked at Matt's comment, because he of all people should know exactly what Mattias means. But for shits and giggles, I'll indulge you all since it seems, sadly, people need reminding:
  • For the consumer and dev: true native Reason rack integration, including CV, patch browser, etc
  • For the dev: 100% rock solid copy protection
  • For the consumer: instant "sync all" for all RE's via your account; easy license managing
  • For the dev: no need to manage a store front or infrastructure - it's all handled for you
  • For the dev and consumer: shop for all extensions in one place
  • For the consumer and dev: rock solid stability via Reason
Please don't act like these things are not valuable nor unique to Reason. If you've spent any time out there managing your VST plugins, you'd know that this is a big deal.
How many of the items on your list are 'amazing things that no other plug-in format does'?
For the consumer and dev: true native Reason rack integration, including CV, patch browser, etc
So basically they work with Reason. That is your number one point - the fact that a plugin built for Reason works with Reason.
For the dev: 100% rock solid copy protection
This has nothing to do with what REs do.
For the consumer: instant "sync all" for all RE's via your account; easy license managing
This has nothing to do with what REs do.
For the dev: no need to manage a store front or infrastructure - it's all handled for you
This has nothing to do with what REs do.
For the dev and consumer: shop for all extensions in one place
This has nothing to do with what REs do.
For the consumer and dev: rock solid stability via Reason
This is basically your first point all over again.

So you've failed to name a single thing that REs are uniquely capable of other than that they work with Reason, let alone anything 'amazing'. Stability is great and I'm not underplaying it - it's one of the best things about (most) REs, but there are lots of stable VSTs out there too.

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EnochLight
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Posts: 8405
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

18 Nov 2017

Goodbye wrote:
18 Nov 2017
EnochLight wrote:
18 Nov 2017



I'm a little shocked at Matt's comment, because he of all people should know exactly what Mattias means. But for shits and giggles, I'll indulge you all since it seems, sadly, people need reminding:
  • For the consumer and dev: true native Reason rack integration, including CV, patch browser, etc
  • For the dev: 100% rock solid copy protection
  • For the consumer: instant "sync all" for all RE's via your account; easy license managing
  • For the dev: no need to manage a store front or infrastructure - it's all handled for you
  • For the dev and consumer: shop for all extensions in one place
  • For the consumer and dev: rock solid stability via Reason
Please don't act like these things are not valuable nor unique to Reason. If you've spent any time out there managing your VST plugins, you'd know that this is a big deal.
How many of the items on your list are 'amazing things that no other plug-in format does'?
For the consumer and dev: true native Reason rack integration, including CV, patch browser, etc
So basically they work with Reason. That is your number one point - the fact that a plugin built for Reason works with Reason.
For the dev: 100% rock solid copy protection
This has nothing to do with what REs do.
For the consumer: instant "sync all" for all RE's via your account; easy license managing
This has nothing to do with what REs do.
For the dev: no need to manage a store front or infrastructure - it's all handled for you
This has nothing to do with what REs do.
For the dev and consumer: shop for all extensions in one place
This has nothing to do with what REs do.
For the consumer and dev: rock solid stability via Reason
This is basically your first point all over again.

So you've failed to name a single thing that REs are uniquely capable of other than that they work with Reason, let alone anything 'amazing'. Stability is great and I'm not underplaying it - it's one of the best things about (most) REs, but there are lots of stable VSTs out there too.
You're either being purposely obtuse, or serving up more of that cup of yours. You know very well that this sort of thing does NOT exist in VST - especially in the context of Reason - and has everything to do with what RE's do in Reason. Seriously, man. :roll:
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