Propellerhead introduces Layers synth.

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fotizimo
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14 Sep 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
14 Sep 2017
fotizimo wrote:
14 Sep 2017


So i wonder why there was no mention of it, since it took the community all of an hour to figure this out for ourselves. i wonder what this will do to AM3 sales?
The Pinknoise logo can be seen on the back of the device.
My point was why they didn't call out PN in the description of the device itself, and as of 8am this morning, I hadn't inspected the back looking for licensing and royalty agreements.
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dvdrtldg
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14 Sep 2017

mark999 wrote:
14 Sep 2017
To all these die hard underground sound designers crying about lack of tweakability and connectivity, etc. .. you need to realize that Propellerheads can't just cater to YOU only.
But the whole point of a lot of these complaints is just to signal publicly that "Hey, I'm a diehard underground sound designer and this baby n00b shit is beneath me". In which case, congratulations guys

I'll trial this and see how I feel. It does seem a little on the pricey side, and probably not a must-buy for me. The acid test will be to see if I can get same/similar results quickly & easily with what I already have, and I suspect the answer is Yes

But if Layers gives someone else quick & easy access to quality sounds that they like, and they're not already drowning in soft synths & refills, and they're happy to drop 69 bucks on it, then great. The Soundcloud samples sound fantastic and the UI is very nice imo

EDIT - some time later - this is loads of fun. Quality presets, plenty of options for tweaking parameters (via combinator) and everything sounds nice straight out of the box. Simple but very flexible interface. If you just want to get up & running fast producing cool 80s type sounds, then it's a great and surprisingly versatile instrument. Fucc da haters
Last edited by dvdrtldg on 14 Sep 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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EnochLight
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14 Sep 2017

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
14 Sep 2017
EnochLight wrote:
14 Sep 2017
just because they release an IDT made with a partner.
Is it an IDT device? as they usually only have Gate \ Note and this one has other CV's..
99.9% sure it's an IDT, otherwise - I'm sure we'd get more fancy SDK 2.5+ type features and far more CV, as well as separate audio outs for the layers.
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EnochLight
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14 Sep 2017

Oquasec wrote:
14 Sep 2017
As a guy who literally knows how sound works...All that futuristic crap has been here since transformers.
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Oquasec wrote:
14 Sep 2017
When you have a fundamental understanding of how sound works you realize that "hey, this shit is done with that" over time.

When you study how synths work, and how each fader & knob functions you realize that hey, it's gonna be the same exact shit it's always been because that's how sound works
:lol:
Are you sure? :puf_bigsmile: :lol:
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Oquasec
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14 Sep 2017

]


Where the fuck would you be doing anything like this in a song Lmao?
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CaliforniaBurrito
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14 Sep 2017

Oquasec wrote:
14 Sep 2017
Where the fuck would you be doing anything like this in a song Lmao
I don't know about the sources of your specific example but I hope you don't think that film sound designers are sitting around and playing with synthesizers to produce their sounds. :lol:

Film sound design is not the same thing as a kid sitting in their parent's basement producing wobble bass synth patches.

Sorry but maybe you don't know how sound works or very much about the stuff you call futuristic crap. :lol:

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Oquasec
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14 Sep 2017

Dude, in the future synthesizers will probably be recreating those sounds. Cuz if not they will basically be exactly the same.
In theory you can create any waveform you want with Partials.
So using a synth with a ton of partials to play with like noxious or parsec...or Ogun by imageline would give you some pretty interesting results.
So after a while a synth with a million partials would probably end up being a practical thing to have in a studio.
Last edited by Oquasec on 14 Sep 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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CaliforniaBurrito
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14 Sep 2017

Oquasec wrote:
14 Sep 2017
Dude, in the future synthesizers will probably be recreating those sounds. Cuz if not they will basically be exactly the same.
In theory you can create any waveform you want with Partials.
So using a synth with a ton of partials to play with like noxious or parsec...or Ogun by imageline would give you some pretty interesting results.
So after a while a synth with a million partials would probably end up being a practical thing to have in a studio.
Ok. You're fired! :lol:

An important thing to remember is that real sound designers aren't trying to recreate sounds. They are deep down in the rabbit hole finding new timbres with screwed up ways of creating them. They are also not really trying to be musical or within the boundaries of theory. It is a real world adventurous experience with a demand for high quality, coherence and heavy psychological impact. There's definitely more spirit to field recording than tweaking knobs even if that option was on the table by a very long stretch.

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EnochLight
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14 Sep 2017

Oquasec wrote:
14 Sep 2017
]www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxaZ-yrlJO4

Where the fuck would you be doing anything like this in a song Lmao?
Clearly you're too young to know about Throbbing Gristle, Skinny Puppy, and a plethora of other industrial music artists from the 70's, 80's, and beyond. LMAO :D :lol:
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Oquasec
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14 Sep 2017

Dude, you gotta know how sound works to be a sound designer.
Dude, you gotta know how to compose to be a composer.
Dude, ya gotta know scales and junk if you want to use midi devices.
Dude, ya gotta sit there for hours experimenting with plugins to get comfy with em like looking at a map.
------------------------------------------------------
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CaliforniaBurrito
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14 Sep 2017

Oquasec wrote:
14 Sep 2017
Dude, you gotta know how sound works to be a sound designer.
Dude, you gotta know how to compose to be a composer.
Dude, ya gotta know scales and junk if you want to use midi devices.
Dude, ya gotta sit there for hours experimenting with plugins to get comfy with em like looking at a map.
Dude, ya gotta know enough to break some rules like an artist. :clap:

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QVprod
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14 Sep 2017

apostrophedave wrote:
14 Sep 2017
QVprod wrote:
14 Sep 2017
This doesn't really fit within Propellerhead's usual style of product.
you mean apart from radical piano and radical keys which layer instruments together? or any of the a-list RE's that seem to be aimed at less technical people? this seems to be exactly what they are doing with this... taking a refill and repackaging it so its easier for people to get some quick sounds without messing with combinators and routing up different instruments into a line mixer etc etc
The Radical RE's aren't aimed at "less technical" people. Neither are the A-list REs. The Radicals are full blown tweak-able instruments that use a mix of physical modeling and samples. You can almost consider them synths in and of themselves. Neither of them are repackaged from any other product. Also there's nothing non-technical about the A-list RE's. The Guitar REs are not replicable within Reason at all unless you play an actual guitar (or now use a VST). The A-list drummers are drum libraries with loops, not too different in concept from Native Instruments Studio Drummer or Toon Track EZ drummer with full control over the drum mix.

What's the point of a RE if you have to use a combinator to get any use out of it. Defeats the whole purpose. For that just stack a bunch of Thors and Subtractors like people were doing before.

Where Layers is different is aside from PX7 there are no other Propellerhead "vintage" instrument REs. That said, there's nothing nontechnical about this RE either. After reading the manual....It's actually a full blown synth with separate filter, LFO, ADSR, distortion....etc... per layer. It's just sample based with raw waveforms (not synth presets).
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
14 Sep 2017


No, Pinknoise has licensed the samples, Propellerhead created this RE.
Semantics! Pinknoise sampling, Propellerhead programming and branding. :puf_bigsmile:

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QVprod
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14 Sep 2017

QVprod wrote:
14 Sep 2017
apostrophedave wrote:
14 Sep 2017


you mean apart from radical piano and radical keys which layer instruments together? or any of the a-list RE's that seem to be aimed at less technical people? this seems to be exactly what they are doing with this... taking a refill and repackaging it so its easier for people to get some quick sounds without messing with combinators and routing up different instruments into a line mixer etc etc
The Radical RE's aren't aimed at "less technical" people. Neither are the A-list REs. The Radicals are full blown tweak-able instruments that use a mix of physical modeling and samples. You can almost consider them synths in and of themselves. Neither of them are repackaged from any other product. Also there's nothing non-technical about the A-list RE's. The Guitar REs are not replicable within Reason at all unless you play an actual guitar (or now use a VST). The A-list drummers are drum libraries with loops, not too different in concept from Native Instruments Studio Drummer or Toon Track EZ drummer with full control over the drum mix.

What's the point of a RE if you have to use a combinator to get any use out of it. Defeats the whole purpose. For that just stack a bunch of Thors and Subtractors like people were doing before.

Where Layers is different is aside from PX7 there are no other Propellerhead "vintage" instrument REs. That said, there's nothing nontechnical about this RE either. After reading the manual....It's actually a full blown synth with separate filter, LFO, ADSR, distortion....etc... per layer. It's just sample based with raw waveforms as well as presets.
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
14 Sep 2017


No, Pinknoise has licensed the samples, Propellerhead created this RE.
Semantics! Pinknoise sampling, Propellerhead programming and branding. :puf_bigsmile:

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EnochLight
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14 Sep 2017

:lol: :puf_bigsmile: :P


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etyrnal
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14 Sep 2017


mark999 wrote:To all these die hard underground sound designers crying about lack of tweakability and connectivity, etc. .. you need to realize that Propellerheads can't just cater to YOU only.
See, that's where you just don't get it.

In the instance you are describing propellerheads are doing the exact opposite, where they could have left everything else the same, but included CV patching on the back.


they basically thumbed their noses at the advanced users and only catered to the noobs.

The point is, by putting all the series and stuff on the back of the since, they would be making the advanced users happy, and it would have absolutely no impact on the front of the sins where the noobs hang out. So when they could have satisfied both they decided to cut it short and only satisfy the noobs.

And putting CV's on the back of the instrument is literally no more difficult than calling up a couple little pictures of CV Jacks and dragging and dropping the code into the synth and binding it to the parameters that they control. Probably is something that a propeller head programmer could do in under an hour.

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etyrnal
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14 Sep 2017


mark999 wrote: and since geeks make up only a percentage of Reason users

If it wasn't for geeks, reason wouldn't even exist.



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QVprod
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14 Sep 2017

miscend wrote:
14 Sep 2017
I think the price point is the main problem here. It's too high. It should be about 30 bucks.
Not really, The refill it's based on is $65. https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... onsters-3/

That means the current intro price is just $3 more than the refill it's based off. There are far less capable VSTs that cost more like this one https://www.uvi.net/en/vintage-corner/d ... vol-2.html.

It makes me wonder though. For the people who have extreme negative outlooks on this RE (aside from the refill owners), have you actually looked at what it's capable of? It's a full blown synth. Just sample based. The oscillators (layers) just aren't all regular waveforms. I get that it doesn't have a mod matrix and not a lot of cv options, but it's quite capable on it's own. A bitley RE, as some mentioned earlier, wouldn't much functionally different than what this is aside from his content being larger.

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EnochLight
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15 Sep 2017

QVprod wrote:
14 Sep 2017
miscend wrote:
14 Sep 2017
I think the price point is the main problem here. It's too high. It should be about 30 bucks.
Not really, The refill it's based on is $65. https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... onsters-3/

That means the current intro price is just $3 more than the refill it's based off. There are far less capable VSTs that cost more like this one https://www.uvi.net/en/vintage-corner/d ... vol-2.html.

It makes me wonder though. For the people who have extreme negative outlooks on this RE (aside from the refill owners), have you actually looked at what it's capable of? It's a full blown synth. Just sample based. The oscillators (layers) just aren't all regular waveforms. I get that it doesn't have a mod matrix and not a lot of cv options, but it's quite capable on it's own. A bitley RE, as some mentioned earlier, wouldn't much functionally different than what this is aside from his content being larger.
To be fair, AM3 is currently 39 Euro/46 USD from Pink Noise's website:

http://www.reasonbanks.com/refill_AM3_order.html

But I agree - it's a full blown synth in a nice package. And certainly a hell of lot nicer to work in and look at than a Combinator and/or a bunch of NNXT's. The filters on Layers also has an LP18, dual LFO's for each filter, plus a global LFO, which can help with it's sound. At it's current sale price, I think it's a pretty great package for fans of the content. I'd personally choose it over AM3 if I had to choose between the two. YMMV.

You're basically paying $24 more for a customized GUI/UX. Knowing how much it was going to cost to pay a dev to make an RE/IDT for me back in the day, that's a fuck'n steal, IMHO.

*Edit: sorry, not dual LFO's.
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seqoi
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15 Sep 2017

EnochLight wrote:
15 Sep 2017


But I agree - it's a full blown synth in a nice package.
No it is not. Strangely this sentence coming from you because from what i understand by reading you posting you very well know what synth is. Antidote is a synth. Viking 2 is a synth. Even Subtractor is a synth.

This is simple sample player wrapped in nice graphical interface. Not a full blown synth at all.

Anyway by looking it from simplicity side of things i will apologize to others when i tried to dismiss product as bad. It is not! It is simple sample player and it comes with ton of usable sounds. As people said for someone looking good sound fast this is it. For others which can make their own sounds this is not their release right.

On my defense you have to take in to account PH spoiled some of us with innovations over time. But now when i overslept it i see this is indeed good RE for people looking just to play and not go in to unknown space.

Something for everyone.

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15 Sep 2017

I find it really difficult to hate something that features a waveform called CafeDelMar.

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bitley
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15 Sep 2017

seqoi wrote:
14 Sep 2017
Indeed for some reason i expected more from them. This looks like poor's man sample rompler. And that's a closed one. Many RE devices in current shop appear to be more advanced then this one.

From what i can see you can do pretty much everything with 4X NN19 and some clever routing in Combinator. + ton of samples already available.

And yes i expected more on the backside. At least FX routing. I guess in future update they will add it and custom sample loading option.

To each their own i guess.
Well you just need one NNXT if you want to create layers and the NNXT is almost unlimited in its possibilities. Check out "some" refills to get an idea. ;)

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Marco Raaphorst
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15 Sep 2017

fotizimo wrote:
14 Sep 2017
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
14 Sep 2017


The Pinknoise logo can be seen on the back of the device.
My point was why they didn't call out PN in the description of the device itself, and as of 8am this morning, I hadn't inspected the back looking for licensing and royalty agreements.
Yes, that's right. Sometimes the companies the Props work are somewhat more hidden indeed. In this case it's the back of device and mentioned in manual only. Not in the desciption.

Would love to see a large credit list. I did hundreds of patches and samples for Factory SoundBank, if that would be mentioned online it would be best for me. But ok, it is their decision.

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mreese80
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15 Sep 2017

Not worth having imo. If you want the real thing just buy the analogue monsters refill by Pinknoise. Save your money. You could also buy Bitley's refills for all of this and more. :refill:
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