PSQ1684: AAGH!!

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
Post Reply
User avatar
jonheal
Posts: 1213
Joined: 29 Jan 2015
Location: Springfield, VA, USA
Contact:

15 Jul 2017

I bought this item a year or so ago, and every now and then, I try to figure it out. Right now, I am frustrated. It has SO many options for variability that for me right now, it is almost impossible to create a sequence that is not complete arrhythmic clutter. 99% of settings seem to lead to arrhythmia.

This morning I tried slowing down the tempo really slow to try to get a handle on what is going on with the clock divisions, etc. I continue to be flummoxed. Some questions:
  1. Speed: Why is it 1 to 96? What is 96 speed? 96 of what?
  2. Division. I sort of understand that the Division setting causes the frequency of pulses to occur with less frequency the higher the setting, but why does the first pulse not occur immediately regardless of Division setting? The pattern seems to start the instant you click the Run button on the Matrix Pattern Sequencer. On the PSQ1684, it does not.
  3. Also, why does the Division setting in conjunction with the Speed setting affect the Width of the pulse in such a weird way?
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

User avatar
ebbhead
Posts: 24
Joined: 18 May 2017

15 Jul 2017



Part 1 of 4 - might help...

User avatar
dvdrtldg
Posts: 2386
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

15 Jul 2017

Yeah hydlide really helped to sort it out for me - I'm still not sure exactly why certain aspects of PSQ 1684 work the way they do, but after watching those four videos I'm finding it really fun and useful - not so much as a generator for primary drum/percussion patterns, but more for adding percussive & melodic elements "under" the main action

User avatar
jonheal
Posts: 1213
Joined: 29 Jan 2015
Location: Springfield, VA, USA
Contact:

15 Jul 2017

I'll watch Hydlide's vids.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

User avatar
dvdrtldg
Posts: 2386
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

16 Jul 2017

Something that might help if you haven't figured it out already is that the "Count" control should be set to Down (it defaults to Up). I guess that the Up setting has its uses, but everything is fucked up for me unless it's set to Down. One of those areas where I don't understand why it works that way, just that it works that way. Also there's the issue of sync with the sequencer - if you stop playing and then start again, it will be out of sync unless you set the playhead at the beginning of a bar to restart. Anyway. Those vids will help, I only wish someone would make more

User avatar
jonheal
Posts: 1213
Joined: 29 Jan 2015
Location: Springfield, VA, USA
Contact:

16 Jul 2017

I already learned one thing:

"The pattern seems to start the instant you click the Run button on the Matrix Pattern Sequencer. On the PSQ1684, it does not."

To behave like the Matrix, the Count knob needs to be set to "Dn" (Down).

EDIT: Sorry dvdrtldg, I didn't see your response. :)
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

User avatar
challism
Moderator
Posts: 4642
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Fanboy Shill, Boomertown

17 Jul 2017

PSQ was a hard one for me to get my head around, too. It took me a long time to warm up to it, and I was one of the beta testers. I admit the numbers 1-96 are a bit quirky, as are some of the other parts of this device. But it is a great device and it's capable of creating some far out and amazing sounds, which I never would have thought of on my own. It's filled in the gaps of some of my music numerous times, and given me a lot of new musical ideas, when I was drawing a blank..

I mostly use this via the sequencer outputs to create some really weird sounds in various synths. It's also good for making some bizarre percussive/drum fills. I haven't had much luck using it for melodies or main drum beats. It's more like different spices you put into your potatoes, not so much the potatoes themselves.

What I would suggest is making sure you are using the quantizer. Make sure the sequencer has a quantizer selected and make sure that quantizer is the same key as your song. Also, turn the rate knob (under the pulse pads, next to the run button) down. It is set to 1/16 by default and I find that way too fast, sometimes.

Click the little key button in the sequncer and randomize all rows. See what happens. Now start tweaking some of those knobs in the sequencer section. Go back to the sequencer and change the start and ending positions. Now go and change the actual note knobs of the sequencer rows/columns. Go and randomize all the pulses so you can get some different pulses driving your sequencer steps. Change the source from A1 to some other source. You should start to get a feel for what they all do by messing around with it in this manner.

The video(s) posted above are also helpful, but they are old, and PSQ has been updated drastically since the videos were made.
Players are to MIDI what synthesizers are to waveforms.

ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

User avatar
ejanuska
Posts: 680
Joined: 27 May 2016
Location: USA

17 Jul 2017

jonheal wrote:
15 Jul 2017
  1. Speed: Why is it 1 to 96? What is 96 speed? 96 of what?
  2. Division. I sort of understand that the Division setting causes the frequency of pulses to occur with less frequency the higher the setting, but why does the first pulse not occur immediately regardless of Division setting? The pattern seems to start the instant you click the Run button on the Matrix Pattern Sequencer. On the PSQ1684, it does not.
  3. Also, why does the Division setting in conjunction with the Speed setting affect the Width of the pulse in such a weird way?
I hate to say it but, have you checked out the manual? Most of this can be answered by reading it. Now that you are a little familiar with the RE that manual will make sense.

If there is a question about what something is doing send the signal to one of the outputs and monitor it with a CVA-7 CV Analyzer(free RE in shop).

User avatar
Re8et
Competition Winner
Posts: 1512
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

21 Jul 2017

pulse midi division goes per 6 steps, 6, 24, 48, 96 i think to remember

set all sequencers to A1 grid, and mopol those together (6 will give you 6 voices for eg to use with Vk2_)
use a macro to select source identical to all seqencers
use the 16 grid for variations
use macro to switch between them

Hell I love it


try to set reset to 0 zero, it might help with triplets

User avatar
Catblack
Posts: 1020
Joined: 15 Apr 2016
Contact:

21 Jul 2017

I'm not sure how many patches from this old thread still work, but check it out...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7498528
If you ain't hip to the rare Housequake, shut up already.

Damn.

User avatar
Faastwalker
Posts: 2281
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: NSW, Australia

24 Jul 2017

This is one RE I really needed to sit down & spend some time with ......... and RTFM! I was extremely intrigued by this & also bought it around a year ago when it was on sale. Have only spent a little time with it so far. I had some interesting results routing the output to a drum machine via the EMI. But I'd be lying if I said I knew what was going on! Hydlide's videos on this are excellent. But it's moved on quite a lot since he made them. Now it's got even more features to get stuck into. I think I'll make myself sit down with this tonight for at least an hour.

User avatar
jonheal
Posts: 1213
Joined: 29 Jan 2015
Location: Springfield, VA, USA
Contact:

24 Jul 2017

Reading the Fantastic Manual or not, it remains a pretty mysterious device to me and I have an almost impossible time programming in predictable results. "Rolling the dice" does quickly build interesting and usable rhythms, but that takes the intellectual fun out of it for me.

I'm afraid Rob Buse has a device here that may be beyond my small mind.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

User avatar
ejanuska
Posts: 680
Joined: 27 May 2016
Location: USA

24 Jul 2017

jonheal wrote:
24 Jul 2017
Reading the Fantastic Manual or not, it remains a pretty mysterious device to me and I have an almost impossible time programming in predictable results. "Rolling the dice" does quickly build interesting and usable rhythms, but that takes the intellectual fun out of it for me.

I'm afraid Rob Buse has a device here that may be beyond my small mind.
Just start small at first. Try to get it to do one thing. Like play one note on a synth. Go from there. I would stay away from SR Bits, EUC Dens, DP Dens, phase and Chaos until you figure out the grid, the sequencer, division, delay, width, and speed.

User avatar
jonheal
Posts: 1213
Joined: 29 Jan 2015
Location: Springfield, VA, USA
Contact:

24 Jul 2017

ejanuska wrote:
24 Jul 2017
jonheal wrote:
24 Jul 2017
Reading the Fantastic Manual or not, it remains a pretty mysterious device to me and I have an almost impossible time programming in predictable results. "Rolling the dice" does quickly build interesting and usable rhythms, but that takes the intellectual fun out of it for me.

I'm afraid Rob Buse has a device here that may be beyond my small mind.
Just start small at first. Try to get it to do one thing. Like play one note on a synth. Go from there. I would stay away from SR Bits, EUC Dens, DP Dens, phase and Chaos until you figure out the grid, the sequencer, division, delay, width, and speed.
I haven't quite given up on it, yet. :)
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

User avatar
manisnotabird
Posts: 475
Joined: 20 Feb 2015
Location: Austin, TX

26 Oct 2017

In this example, I'm trying to use pulse A3 to control the velocity of sequencer S1 which is sourced from pulse A1. I'd expect since A1 and A3 both have the same "speed" selection, for A1 and A3 to perfectly line up. This does not seem to always be happening. Sometimes they seem to be slightly out of sync. I'm monitoring the gate output of S1 with a Skope Signal Monitor, and can see little 'blips' at the start of some gate signals. See the pictures below to see what I'm talking about, it's a little hard to explain in words.

Image
Image

User avatar
theshoemaker
Posts: 595
Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Germany
Contact:

26 Oct 2017

manisnotabird wrote:
26 Oct 2017
In this example, I'm trying to use pulse A3 to control the velocity of sequencer S1 which is sourced from pulse A1. I'd expect since A1 and A3 both have the same "speed" selection, for A1 and A3 to perfectly line up. This does not seem to always be happening. Sometimes they seem to be slightly out of sync. I'm monitoring the gate output of S1 with a Skope Signal Monitor, and can see little 'blips' at the start of some gate signals. See the pictures below to see what I'm talking about, it's a little hard to explain in words.

Image
Image
It's the chaos button. Chaos adds randomization
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V12 on MacOS Ventura

User avatar
manisnotabird
Posts: 475
Joined: 20 Feb 2015
Location: Austin, TX

26 Oct 2017

theshoemaker wrote:
26 Oct 2017
It's the chaos button. Chaos adds randomization
Don't think that's the right answer to my problem: the chaos knob isn't for adding micro-timing randomization.

User avatar
rcbuse
RE Developer
Posts: 1175
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: SR388
Contact:

26 Oct 2017

manisnotabird wrote:
26 Oct 2017
In this example, I'm trying to use pulse A3 to control the velocity of sequencer S1 which is sourced from pulse A1. I'd expect since A1 and A3 both have the same "speed" selection, for A1 and A3 to perfectly line up. This does not seem to always be happening. Sometimes they seem to be slightly out of sync. I'm monitoring the gate output of S1 with a Skope Signal Monitor, and can see little 'blips' at the start of some gate signals. See the pictures below to see what I'm talking about, it's a little hard to explain in words.

Image
Image
So what you are seeing there is an artifact of how things are calculated internally. The signal graph internally is more or less as follows: Pulses->Sequencers->Quantizers->Mod Matrix. Now, when you modulate velocity in the Modulation matrix, a velocity change isn't going to show up in the sequencer until the next iteration of calculation. When you have two sequencers running at exactly the same time, this can create those little jumps where S1's velocity isn't changed for a moment. So, what you need to so is delay S1 enough that your A3 shift register can modulate the velocity before S1's gate turns on.

Try turning up A1 (S1 source) DELAY to a value a little higher than zero.

I'm working on an update to address this and a few other items.

User avatar
manisnotabird
Posts: 475
Joined: 20 Feb 2015
Location: Austin, TX

26 Oct 2017

rcbuse wrote:
26 Oct 2017
So what you are seeing there is an artifact of how things are calculated internally. The signal graph internally is more or less as follows: Pulses->Sequencers->Quantizers->Mod Matrix. Now, when you modulate velocity in the Modulation matrix, a velocity change isn't going to show up in the sequencer until the next iteration of calculation. When you have two sequencers running at exactly the same time, this can create those little jumps where S1's velocity isn't changed for a moment. So, what you need to so is delay S1 enough that your A3 shift register can modulate the velocity before S1's gate turns on.

Try turning up A1 (S1 source) DELAY to a value a little higher than zero.

I'm working on an update to address this and a few other items.
Thanks!

User avatar
etyrnal2
Posts: 97
Joined: 29 Jan 2017
Contact:

13 Sep 2018

jonheal wrote:
15 Jul 2017
I bought this item a year or so ago, and every now and then, I try to figure it out. Right now, I am frustrated. It has SO many options for variability that for me right now, it is almost impossible to create a sequence that is not complete arrhythmic clutter. 99% of settings seem to lead to arrhythmia.

This morning I tried slowing down the tempo really slow to try to get a handle on what is going on with the clock divisions, etc. I continue to be flummoxed. Some questions:
  1. Speed: Why is it 1 to 96? What is 96 speed? 96 of what?
  2. Division. I sort of understand that the Division setting causes the frequency of pulses to occur with less frequency the higher the setting, but why does the first pulse not occur immediately regardless of Division setting? The pattern seems to start the instant you click the Run button on the Matrix Pattern Sequencer. On the PSQ1684, it does not.
  3. Also, why does the Division setting in conjunction with the Speed setting affect the Width of the pulse in such a weird way?

Took me two straight evenings to understand it inside out.

https://allihoopa.com/s/6iDkKFj2
:reason: :record: :recycle: :re: :adapted: :ignition: :essentials: :refill: :rebirth:

User avatar
etyrnal2
Posts: 97
Joined: 29 Jan 2017
Contact:

13 Sep 2018

jonheal wrote:
15 Jul 2017
  1. Speed: Why is it 1 to 96? What is 96 speed? 96 of what?
  2. Division. I sort of understand that the Division setting causes the frequency of pulses to occur with less frequency the higher the setting, but why does the first pulse not occur immediately regardless of Division setting? The pattern seems to start the instant you click the Run button on the Matrix Pattern Sequencer. On the PSQ1684, it does not.

    BECAUSE you have the clock counter's COUNT set to "UP" pulse instead of "DOWN" pulse/trigger. Page 13 of that 'manual thingie'
  3. Also, why does the Division setting in conjunction with the Speed setting affect the Width of the pulse in such a weird way?
DEFINE "WEIRD"!!!
:reason: :record: :recycle: :re: :adapted: :ignition: :essentials: :refill: :rebirth:

User avatar
etyrnal2
Posts: 97
Joined: 29 Jan 2017
Contact:

13 Sep 2018

manisnotabird wrote:
26 Oct 2017
In this example, I'm trying to use pulse A3 to control the velocity of sequencer S1 which is sourced from pulse A1. I'd expect since A1 and A3 both have the same "speed" selection, for A1 and A3 to perfectly line up. This does not seem to always be happening. Sometimes they seem to be slightly out of sync. I'm monitoring the gate output of S1 with a Skope Signal Monitor, and can see little 'blips' at the start of some gate signals. See the pictures below to see what I'm talking about, it's a little hard to explain in words.

Image
Image
Did you ever update to the newest version? You can control velocity for every knob in each of the S1~S8 by switching to velocity view
:reason: :record: :recycle: :re: :adapted: :ignition: :essentials: :refill: :rebirth:

User avatar
etyrnal2
Posts: 97
Joined: 29 Jan 2017
Contact:

13 Sep 2018

rcbuse wrote:
26 Oct 2017
manisnotabird wrote:
26 Oct 2017
In this example, I'm trying to use pulse A3 to control the velocity of sequencer S1 which is sourced from pulse A1. I'd expect since A1 and A3 both have the same "speed" selection, for A1 and A3 to perfectly line up. This does not seem to always be happening. Sometimes they seem to be slightly out of sync. I'm monitoring the gate output of S1 with a Skope Signal Monitor, and can see little 'blips' at the start of some gate signals. See the pictures below to see what I'm talking about, it's a little hard to explain in words.

Image
Image
So what you are seeing there is an artifact of how things are calculated internally. The signal graph internally is more or less as follows: Pulses->Sequencers->Quantizers->Mod Matrix. Now, when you modulate velocity in the Modulation matrix, a velocity change isn't going to show up in the sequencer until the next iteration of calculation. When you have two sequencers running at exactly the same time, this can create those little jumps where S1's velocity isn't changed for a moment. So, what you need to so is delay S1 enough that your A3 shift register can modulate the velocity before S1's gate turns on.

Try turning up A1 (S1 source) DELAY to a value a little higher than zero.

I'm working on an update to address this and a few other items.
What controls the width/duty of the pulses?
:reason: :record: :recycle: :re: :adapted: :ignition: :essentials: :refill: :rebirth:

User avatar
manisnotabird
Posts: 475
Joined: 20 Feb 2015
Location: Austin, TX

13 Sep 2018

etyrnal2 wrote:
13 Sep 2018
Did you ever update to the newest version? You can control velocity for every knob in each of the S1~S8 by switching to velocity view
I was aiming for the velocity to be ever evolving by controlling it from a shift register with a hint of chaos dialed in. Using the velocity view the velocities would just be a static loop.

User avatar
manisnotabird
Posts: 475
Joined: 20 Feb 2015
Location: Austin, TX

13 Sep 2018

etyrnal2 wrote:
13 Sep 2018
What controls the width/duty of the pulses?
The width knob.

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests