VST in reason, effects on the rack extension market?

[DLDTech]

I was surprised that RP has promised continued support - be interesting to see how long that continues..

It could be because they have something already in devopment that statement was made. I don't see the point of them continuing REs, usually his RE devices were missing features of their VST counterparts.

As a RE developer have you considered now moving to the VST market at all?

Of course I have - technically it's not a massive challenge (different day, different tools), but marketing a VST is costly, and there's no go-to store to sell it from. PH made it possible for small companies to make a bit of money with minimal investment - unfortunately that's not a profitable proposition in the VST world.

I'd rather target the iPad market (that's assuming that PH aren't planning on releasing iReason with REs anytime soon )

[pjeudy]

I was surprised that RP has promised continued support - be interesting to see how long that continues..

It could be because they have something already in devopment that statement was made. I don't see the point of them continuing REs, usually his RE devices were missing features of their VST counterparts.

As a RE developer have you considered now moving to the VST market at all?

Of course I have - technically it's not a massive challenge (different day, different tools), but marketing a VST is costly, and there's no go-to store to sell it from. PH made it possible for small companies to make a bit of money with minimal investment - unfortunately that's not a profitable proposition in the VST world.

I'd rather target the iPad market (that's assuming that PH aren't planning on releasing iReason with REs anytime soon )

Good insight.
Yea..Man I don't see how good this will turn out for RE developers..? I mean look at TubTech chanel strip Rack Extension from Softube it cost $350 with no CV in or out. Why would you buy that in the RE format instead of the VST format, where you can take it with you in any other DAW .

The REASON world will be split big time...those who will swear by RE mostly because of CV, integration,license Sync,300 undos, looks good in the Rack AND those who look at the money they might want to spend on a PLUGIN/RE and have to take into confederation ..how important CV is to them or there clients. What if they use other VST host for there main work/client work..then buying a Reason exclusive Plugin might not make any sense.
I never Imagined that I would be using another DAW besides REASON...but here we are.

[ltbrunt00]

I may be in the minority but I see an RE that looks interesting, Trial it and then buy it ten minutes after trialing it. For a good RE $99 to $200.00 is a good deal.

People don't forget not every VST instrument is an amazing Experience. The GUIs can be be amazing to downright terrible. Manging serial keys and activation's can feel like a part time job sometimes.

I believe there are a lot of people who like the one stop shop Propellerhead offers. Trialing every RE that comes out is a extremely nice feature,I have saved me from buying something that didn't fit the project I was working on.

[esselfortium]

If Propellerhead is working on a mobile version of Reason as they've suggested is the case, then that creates another use case for REs: they're platform-agnostic, so a mobile version of Reason should be capable of using all of them, whereas you're not going to be able to use your VSTs on iOS or Android unless they're specifically ported to it.

[DLDTech]

If Propellerhead is working on a mobile version of Reason as they've suggested is the case, then that creates another use case for REs: they're platform-agnostic, so a mobile version of Reason should be capable of using all of them, whereas you're not going to be able to use your VSTs on iOS or Android unless they're specifically ported to it.

Unfortunately if that was the case, and assuming it would be iPad, then both Apple and PH would want to take their cut before the RE author got anything... I can't see anyone wanting to pay current prices for mobile versions, so there wouldn't be much left for the author especially after taxes.

And I was just joking about iReason - I've not heard anything relating to that, although it's fairly random which bits of info PH share with us!

[pjeudy]

Unfortunately if that was the case, and assuming it would be iPad, then both Apple and PH would want to take their cut before the RE author got anything... I can't see anyone wanting to pay current prices for mobile versions, so there wouldn't be much left for the author especially after taxes.

And I was just joking about iReason - I've not heard anything relating to that, although it's fairly random which bits of info PH share with us!

DLDTech are you in the BETA?
the reason that I asked ... isn't possible still to work with CV and those VST plugins? isn't there like 8 CV slots inside that VST combinator that allows you to route any parameter of a VST to any other CV I/O of any RE developed devices?

[esselfortium]

Unfortunately if that was the case, and assuming it would be iPad, then both Apple and PH would want to take their cut before the RE author got anything... I can't see anyone wanting to pay current prices for mobile versions, so there wouldn't be much left for the author especially after taxes.

And I was just joking about iReason - I've not heard anything relating to that, although it's fairly random which bits of info PH share with us!

DLDTech are you in the BETA?
the reason that I asked ... isn't possible still to work with CV and those VST plugins? isn't there like 8 CV slots inside that VST combinator that allows you to route any parameter of a VST to any other CV I/O of any RE developed devices?

Reason's VST host has 8 CV slots, but they're all inputs, not outputs. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to have CV outputs from plugins that weren't actually built with them in mind, but admittedly I don't know that much about the inner workings of VSTs and what sort of information is actually exposed to the host.

[zeebot]

But also, Reason now becomes a magnet which will bring in tons of new users who also can fully trust Reason to be their fully professional DAW in their studio.

It will also bring in a ton of new users who may actually dig deeper in and see how well Reason all works together...it will also bring a lot of new user batch about not having this or that but what's new? I know I've done it in the past (R8) but I hope props are ready for the new VST/other DAW user backlash.

[avasopht]

If Propellerhead is working on a mobile version of Reason as they've suggested is the case, then that creates another use case for REs: they're platform-agnostic, so a mobile version of Reason should be capable of using all of them, whereas you're not going to be able to use your VSTs on iOS or Android unless they're specifically ported to it.

Unfortunately if that was the case, and assuming it would be iPad, then both Apple and PH would want to take their cut before the RE author got anything... I can't see anyone wanting to pay current prices for mobile versions, so there wouldn't be much left for the author especially after taxes.

And I was just joking about iReason - I've not heard anything relating to that, although it's fairly random which bits of info PH share with us!

Well Propellerhead can have them purchase at the Prop Shop so there's no need for Apple's to take a cut.

[pjeudy]

Reason's VST host has 8 CV slots, but they're all inputs, not outputs.

OK thanks.

[DLDTech]

DLDTech are you in the BETA?

No, I've not got a beta copy so can't comment on how it works.

Well Propellerhead can have them purchase at the Prop Shop so there's no need for Apple's to take a cut.

I think Apple always take a cut for any purchase, and don't normally allow purchasing of add-ons outside of their app store.. Could be wrong though as I haven't looked into it recently..

Anyway, it's great news for everyone except developers!! More choice = more competition = lower prices

[joeyluck]

Reason's VST host has 8 CV slots, but they're all inputs, not outputs.

OK thanks.

It should also be noted that they act like the CV connections in the Combinator, where it is more like automation.

[stratatonic]

Well, REs are exactly what they say: Rack Extensions. Expanding the Reason Rack Experience. It is quintessentially Reason.

Cynically -- REs are there for Propellerhead to make more money. Sell Prop devices separately from the regular recent upgrades which have focused more on work flow. Take a cut of the (mostly) indie devs offerings who supply great devices for the Reason paradigm.
User-wise -- they continue the Reason experience for fans, with the added bonus of choosing exactly what you want. Gone are the days of the classic Reason upgrade, with the included devices. You pay for them separately now. Which is fine. I can't remember the last time I used the Alligator.

However, the price of workflow upgrades, with added RE devices to expand your Reason Experience is pretty pricy - (compared with the past upgrade offerings, and the longer frequency between those past offerings) - that something will have to give. Your average Reason device in a past upgrade could be 25-30 dollars. Does anyone see any Propellerhead Rack Extensions at that price point?

So maybe Propellerhead will start offering a choice of REs to go along with future upgrades. A few extra useful REs working seamlessly in your rack could convince a few more Reason users to shell out for more.

[PurpleMonkeyDishes]

Well, REs are exactly what they say: Rack Extensions. Expanding the Reason Rack Experience. It is quintessentially Reason.


So maybe Propellerhead will start offering a choice of REs to go along with future upgrades. A few extra useful REs working seamlessly in your rack could convince a few more Reason users to shell out for more.

Besides a few effects though, All the laterst "propellerhead" RE's are not Propellerhead! They are ujam who develop the sdk etc i believe. So props dont have full control over thier own RE's

[dpcoffin]

FWIW, I'm a returnee to Reason after MANY years (last used ver.3) with a ton of AUs/VSTs who's looking over the available REs with great interest, for the same reason that I'm coming back: More mod options, a different POV, and all happening inside a well-established, deep but not wildly CPU-intensive modular environment with a ton of community support.

There seem to be plenty of tools in the RE collection that aren't repackaged VSTs, but are unique to Reason, mainly in the CV area, so I can now talk to what I've already got in fresh ways. Obviously I'm not interested in duplicating plugins I already have, but the Reason Approach seems to make a lot of old things look new, and I'm definitely intrigued by synth and FX tools I never bought as VSTs but might see differently now that I'm also here.

Incidentally, I'm not at all planning to abandon my other DAWs…but then I'm not a producer, just a player. I see all my tools as mutable instruments and like to have many options and to move amongst them as whim dictates.

[avasopht]

I think Apple always take a cut for any purchase, and don't normally allow purchasing of add-ons outside of their app store.. Could be wrong though as I haven't looked into it recently..

Anyway, it's great news for everyone except developers!! More choice = more competition = lower prices

You pay for your Spotify subscription via their website and Kindle books at Amazon, so I don't think there would be any issues with Propellerhead doing the same.

[joeyluck]

Well, REs are exactly what they say: Rack Extensions. Expanding the Reason Rack Experience. It is quintessentially Reason.


So maybe Propellerhead will start offering a choice of REs to go along with future upgrades. A few extra useful REs working seamlessly in your rack could convince a few more Reason users to shell out for more.

Besides a few effects though, All the laterst "propellerhead" RE's are not Propellerhead! They are ujam who develop the sdk etc i believe. So props dont have full control over thier own RE's

UJAM developed the IDT (Instrument Development Toolkit).

[Jagwah]

Anyway, it's great news for everyone except developers!! More choice = more competition = lower prices

It's kinda sad, like we are losing something we were expecting to continue. I'll continue to use my REs, they are already bought and integrate perfectly, but as for future purchases - it's kinda going to have to be beating VST to spike people's interest imo. I'm hoping CV devices will get bigger and better.

[stratatonic]

Well, REs are exactly what they say: Rack Extensions. Expanding the Reason Rack Experience. It is quintessentially Reason.


So maybe Propellerhead will start offering a choice of REs to go along with future upgrades. A few extra useful REs working seamlessly in your rack could convince a few more Reason users to shell out for more.

Besides a few effects though, All the laterst "propellerhead" RE's are not Propellerhead! They are ujam who develop the sdk etc i believe. So props dont have full control over thier own RE's

UJAM developed the IDT (Instrument Development Toolkit).

Are you guys suggesting that Propellerhead is not making any money off the sale of their REs? o_0!!

[QVprod]

It will also bring in a ton of new users who may actually dig deeper in and see how well Reason all works together...it will also bring a lot of new user batch about not having this or that but what's new? I know I've done it in the past (R8) but I hope props are ready for the new VST/other DAW user backlash.

Actually I see this as a final end to all the "Reason Sound" and Reason vs VST" threads. I see a pretty positive future.

[QVprod]

It will also bring in a ton of new users who may actually dig deeper in and see how well Reason all works together...it will also bring a lot of new user batch about not having this or that but what's new? I know I've done it in the past (R8) but I hope props are ready for the new VST/other DAW user backlash.

Actually I see this as a final end to all the "Reason Sound" and Reason vs VST" threads. I see a pretty positive future.

Another upside is no crap quality REs as they now have to compete with VSTs. I also see that as a good thing. There have been some questionable REs in the past.

[rexbrewer]

Maybe, this will change the game completely. And more VST developers will start making rack extensions once they realize that RE cannot be cracked whereas VST's can. also a good opportunity for companies to directly sell in the prop shop and maybe make it like rack extensions with authorizing only though propellerheads authorized.

[davidvilla]

Another upside is no crap quality REs as they now have to compete with VSTs. I also see that as a good thing. There have been some questionable REs in the past.

Like Hydronexius, GOD WORST IMPULSE BUY EVER. The only time I didn't trial an RE. MY FAULT. And I only bought it because I thought it might add those "trendy" nexus-like sounds to the rack cuz I don't have time to create them from scratch. So stupid was I to not trial an RE before buying. Anyway, now I'll just use the real Nexus.

Oh, and while I'm at it, I'll use the PRETTY Predator. And the full version of Ozone. And oh look, my VST Monopoly has onboard effects. Why am I going to use a Serum-wannabe when I can use the actual Serum?!! And that new RE-EQ from Papen, I already have it! I've been wanting a REAL reel tape emulation and now I have soooooooo many to choose from. Gone are those days of desperate longing for instruments and effects. I won't have to wait for you or the Props to create an RE and THAT is the best feeling ever. Oh, and maybe my mac won't choke now when I don't have any unoptimized REs in my rack.

One of the major pros of having VSTs in Reason is that I am now going to use Reason way more often because I like Reason's composing/producing environment. And now it will FINALLY have the sounds I've been waiting for it to have.

You asked about the effects on the rack extension market? For me, it will make 99.9% of rack extensions obsolete.

[Oquasec]

I'm keeping that garbage ass nexus out my reason tracks regardless.
That's reserved for those wack ass fl studio collabs I be involved in lol

[PurpleMonkeyDishes]

Well, REs are exactly what they say: Rack Extensions. Expanding the Reason Rack Experience. It is quintessentially Reason.


So maybe Propellerhead will start offering a choice of REs to go along with future upgrades. A few extra useful REs working seamlessly in your rack could convince a few more Reason users to shell out for more.

Besides a few effects though, All the laterst "propellerhead" RE's are not Propellerhead! They are ujam who develop the sdk etc i believe. So props dont have full control over thier own RE's

UJAM developed the IDT (Instrument Development Toolkit).

Are you guys suggesting that Propellerhead is not making any money off the sale of their REs? o_0!!

Yes - That work is given out to ujam - https://company.ujam.com/#products/rack_extensions