VST in reason, effects on the rack extension market?

[The_G]

In regards to Spire I'm now faced with a similar decision with the Legend which was at the top of my wishlist. The one reason why I would buy the RE over the VST is that there are refills that I want for it. The second reason would be that at its probably better optimized from a dsp perspective. Still in all I'm super excited. Definitely buying Serum as soon as 9.5 drops

Not to worry re: Legend. Synapse will give you a free
crossgrade. Just write them first to confirm, but they did it for me.

[16BitBear]

From a smaller developers point of view...

The main problem is that we suddenly have a huge amount of competition in the way of VST's.. At the high end, you have all the big names which everyone wants and at the low end there's a ton of free VST's available which are as good as many RE's..

I'm expecting PH will see an increase in Reason sales (which is great) but many of those buyers will already have invested in their own VSTs or just want to pay out for something like Komplete and get a great set of instruments when combined with the stock devices.

Finally, there's the issue of VST piracy - do you think the average home user will spend good money on a RE when they can easily get a pirated VST device that does something similar??


Maybe I'm wrong, maybe some newcomers will love the tight integration of RE's and forget about VST, but realistically I expect the synth and effect RE market to be decimated and left with a few CV devices that are only possible with RE.

I can't speak for others but I go out of my way to support the small developers of RE's. The quality is always higher than the 'free' VST's. And of the few quality free VST's out there, some are already done better as RE's. I just don't need five different Yamaha FM clone synths for example.

For me this is the best of both worlds as I would love to use Reason only as my DAW. I have used it since version 1 on classic Mac OS G4's. But now, I can use some of the quality VST's that I have invested in. Being able to use EZDrummer, the complete Korg Collection, and my Arturia V Collection with Reason and all the quality RE's I have purchased over the years is just fantastic for me right now. RE's are still far more stable and completely integrated into the Reason environment. I don't have to worry about Megasaur crashing on me nor do I have the same flexibility with CV routing as I do with RE's over VST's.

Additionally, I have noticed more and more small dev VST makers closing shop. DiscoDSP's bizarre 'temporary closing' comes to mind. Being a RE developer, you have a secure marketplace and buyer base to build from. That is a plus I imagine.

[16BitBear]

Probably not going to buy alot of VSTs but what just became VERY interesting is a Virus TI and the Elektron Overbridge stuff.

Exactly my thoughts. I own a Virus Ti2 Desktop. It's the only synth I can't let go of, and the only synth I own having sold off everything else for space. Saying that, it was easy to get the Virus and Serum into Reason before this new VST support. Reason 9.5 will save me 3 double mouse clicks and a bit of time on CC.

I still have a few hardware synths and samplers that I use with MidiQuest which now can integrate with DAW's as a VST for full playback and patch/librarian management. Being able to run MidiQuest now in Reason with my JV-1010 and EPS-16+ wired in to Chenille and Titus is sounding really great about now! I can't wait to get my beta acceptance!!

[16BitBear]

Since this is now an option for Reason, I'll leave this here for everyone to peruse...

Top 25 Free VST Plugins Of 2016

http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2016/12 ... gins-2016/

I have checked out most of those, and I only liked and use Lagrange and Cobalt. In Reason, I will always go for the RE that does the same or better and fits the CV routing eco-system far more than a slew of decent to mediocre free VST's.

[XysteR]

I don't think much will change. I'm finding it difficult to get my head around all the fuss. I've been using VST's in Reason for years now. Delay compensation got my ears pricked up though - That's about it. I'll gain a small amount of time with VST integration - No biggie really. The only thing this update will do is slam Reason at the top of the DAW charts. Thus bringing more sales for the Reason DAW. More people will be more potential buyers of Re's so it's all good. I know I won't stop buying Re's.

Interestingly I gradually stopped using Serum when I bought eXpanse. It's my guess that I'll still not use Serum much, even in V9.5 with VST support.

[Jonathan10]

Any body know if you can put vst in combinator and r oute parameters to cv 1 2 3 and 4 and can u r oute parameters to rotaries 1-4?

[gak]

So are RE's going to be re-sell able now?

I still don't see that happening. I think many are in favor of it but Re won't change. If they sell VST however I don't see how they could prevent it as I wouldn't expect the licensing to be handled by them... just distribution and sales. Time will tell with that one. L)

Well, then I'll hang onto it. The only reason (NPI) that I hang onto it with the paltry offerings since 8.3 (which were far better than 9) is that I can't do anything with the RE's, too big a waste.

[chimp_spanner]

Any body know if you can put vst in combinator and r oute parameters to cv 1 2 3 and 4 and can u r oute parameters to rotaries 1-4?

Yup, sure can.

[miscend]

Well, first, Spire would not count as indie. And no, I would not. But I would buy stuff from Jiggery Pokery, Blamsoft, etc.

And some bigger devs like Rob Papen and Synapse say they will continue to develop REs.

Reveal Sound could be considered indie developers. They're not a massive company, they're quite new to the plugin scene and have only one product.

Synapse haven't announced anything since the VST announcement (they are apparently hard at work on the new Dune VST). Although Rob Papen have said they will continue to support the format.

[Alkua]

I think RE won't die, specially utilities RE and some unique effect RE. But instruments and effect like compressor, EQ, etc... will low the sales. I have UAD plugins and Izotope and those ones are very difficult to beat. And now Native Instruments, Serum, Output, etc will be the go to instruments.

I think that RE will lower the price to compete. You will see more good synths under $99. For example, Serum is a very synth and it is cost $189, and you can use it anywhere. But RE only can be used in Reason, so RE instruments below $99 people will still buy them.

[tumar]

But RE only can be used in Reason, so RE instruments below $99 people will still buy them.

And RE are non transferable.

[ivar]

hi
reason is now in challenge with fl studio. you can use extra fl studio plugins as an vst version - witch are more expensive or as an fl studio only product witch are cheaper but cant be used outside fl studio. maybee the RE go the same way who knows. but the real big thing is: you dont pay for fl studio DAW updates. you get them for free. they earn money with selling the plug ins to the old users base. a fine way of keeping every user DAW up to date.
maybee PH are forced to go the same way.

regards

[JerrelTheKing]

I definitely agree that Reason is now in direct competition with FL Studio and Ableton Live at this point. The total 9 update as a whole as been game changing. I will add that the 9.2 update gave RE developers hope but the 9.5 update kind of negated that?? Anyhow PH will now focus on making V10 the best DAW on the market bar none. They no longer have to think about the VST question or RE or browser or color schemes, etc. They can directly challenge the best qualities of Ableton now.

[pjeudy]

I don't think much will change. I'm finding it difficult to get my head around all the fuss. The only thing this update will do is slam Reason at the top of the DAW charts.

I will agree that REASON will get a boost in the none scientific DAW Polls out there.
To me, I think that the first thing that this will do is slam the RE market on it's butt. In the REASON Eco-stem VST's in REASON is like the comet that destroyed the dinosaurs Big.There will still be an RE market but it'll be much smaller once RE developers noticed the slow sales. Actually you can easily surmise in part that, slow sales/development after 5 years of RE is what prompted this major,major move to VST's. This was never supposed to happened...right?

Also I've been reading the feedback from this on Propellerheads Social media...I couldn't count how many times Propellerheads where simply responding to people with a simple thank you..thank you..thank you...thank you...we are dancing at Propellerheads headquarters also...thank you.... none stop. Not once did I read anyone mentioned CV, some might have but they where not the majority I'm sure...BUT YOU CAN READ PEOPLE SAYING i'M COMING BACK TO REASON....why, solely because of the VST announcement. Music artist, plugin developers that where supposed to be on board with RE who never showed up in years are now smiling and happy...that's what the fuss is all about.

Also a small correction..you haven't been using VST in REASON for years. You've found a workaround to use Instruments on the side of REASON. I won't even mentioned THE GYMNASTICS one might have to do to get Dynamic devices to work with REASON besides Rewire.

I definitely agree that Reason is now in direct competition with FL Studio and Ableton Live at this point.

Maybe.
So what you guys are saying is that all that Propellerhead ever needed was VST plugins to win the top slot in the DAW race? we will see, but when I see a user on ProTools,Ableton,FL studio etc... I see them using more then just Plugins to get there songs made. They also use the way there DAW allows them to work faster...the many options they have to get there work done that has nothing to with Plugins. But time will tell.

[joeyluck]

Also a small correction..you haven't been using VST in REASON for years. You've found a workaround to use Instruments on the side of REASON. I won't even mentioned THE GYMNASTICS one might have to do to get Dynamic devices to work with REASON besides Rewire.

"Technically speaking, it's all a workaround when it's not a Rack Extension" -Albert Einstein

[Abstrax]

This could be the best thing for the RE market. At this point, it has the same problem as all other plugin markets. Oversaturation. Especially with the IDK's, there isn't much innovation. And now the VST integration is even more flexible than IDKs.

And let's be honest. There's only so many ways to design a delay. There's only so many ways to Low Pass a sawtooth wave.

RE developers will be forced to be flex their creativity muscles in order to compete. And I have no doubt that the already creative RE devices will continue to be used. There's no way I'm giving up JP Ammo, Blamsoft Polymod, RP Vecto, or Selig leveler. I could name 10 more that are here to stay in my rack.

[Oquasec]

the RE shop has 280+ instruments/effects/utilities and counting.
Then you have native 2.4 vst format now.

[pjeudy]

Also a small correction..you haven't been using VST in REASON for years. You've found a workaround to use Instruments on the side of REASON. I won't even mentioned THE GYMNASTICS one might have to do to get Dynamic devices to work with REASON besides Rewire.

"Technically speaking, it's all a workaround when it's not a Rack Extension" -Albert Einstein

Not really necessary to go down to the Planck length with this. Or we can go the abstract philosophical/conspiracy route : isn't Rack Extension an involved and elaborate workaround by Propellerheads in order not to use VST's ?
Not needing extra third party software or an interface (hardware) to loopback into REASON ect...makes it not the same as running a VST on the side of REASON with absolutely zero chance of parameter automation,saves etc.. is as deep as this need to go In my mere mortal opinion of course.

[Oquasec]

The emi module is not gymnastics.
It supports exe, which supports all versions of vst.

Loopbacking is a tricky thing however, and a native vst RE bypasses the need to do that.
Which goes from the 5 minutes of routing voicemeter to 0 seconds at the cost of losing access to 32bit/vst3/vst2 etc.

[joeyluck]

Also a small correction..you haven't been using VST in REASON for years. You've found a workaround to use Instruments on the side of REASON. I won't even mentioned THE GYMNASTICS one might have to do to get Dynamic devices to work with REASON besides Rewire.

"Technically speaking, it's all a workaround when it's not a Rack Extension" -Albert Einstein

Not really necessary to go down to the Planck length with this. Or we can go the abstract philosophical/conspiracy route : isn't Rack Extension an involved and elaborate workaround by Propellerheads in order not to use VST's ?
Not needing extra third party software or an interface (hardware) to loopback into REASON ect...makes it not the same as running a VST on the side of REASON with absolutely zero chance of parameter automation,saves etc.. is as deep as this need to go In my mere mortal opinion of course.

Hey I'm just quoting the guy.

[pjeudy]

Hey I'm just quoting the guy.

LOL.jpg (124.45 KiB) Viewed 2297 times

[Karim]

As REs become as capable as VSTs which is not far off and they have scalable rack etc in reason they'll make it easier to port over and people will sell the RE along with the VST. So you'd get RE, VST and AU versions together when buying in the Reason shop. Maybe for a few quid more. Maybe they could even offer RE versions to people who can show reciept of VST purchase for super low prices. People will definetly use the RE version but have VST handy for resale.

good point, really! [emoji108]

Inviato dal mio SM-G925F utilizzando Tapatalk

[plasticfractal]

I really hope there is another shoe to drop. I am sure this will drive sales of reason which is great, but as it is I am concerned about the effect on RE development. I really hope Propellerheads has some followup coming which will blow all our minds. Like fresh set of new players, or even some new category of device, new sale or subscription model which includes all REs, or something else like that. I want to see a result where the RE market continues to thrive. We've been getting amazing rack extensions the last couple years, and the SDK update has resulted in some great synth. And like others have said, I really like the one click sync feature to get all my REs.

[nscerri]

RE support is going to be one of the major features that stands out from other DAW's. Personally, I prefer Re's that are solely designed for Reason, the VK-2 (which I own) is a very good example, just flip the back and you will surely understand and it sounds amazing.

However I still welcome VSTs with open heart and mind. Really loved the way they are integrated in reason.

[Jagwah]

I was surprised that RP has promised continued support - be interesting to see how long that continues..

It could be because they have something already in devopment that statement was made. I don't see the point of them continuing REs, usually his RE devices were missing features of their VST counterparts.

As a RE developer have you considered now moving to the VST market at all?