VST in reason, effects on the rack extension market?

[DLDTech]

A more interesting question imho, is "VST in Reason, effects on the RE SDK development?"

Well we finally got latency compensation... I guess that was needed to make VST work

I'd like to see PH selling VSTs in the shop, I think that would give a lot of developers an easy way to move into the VST market without having to worry about online payments and piracy.

[unisyn]

Would always purchase a VST license over RE, if it were cross platform.
RE has a much lower value as asset, due to inability for license transfer etc.

I think RE will still live on as a CV utility centric platform. But definitely, a massive setback in general.

[4filegate]

From a smaller developers point of view...

...

Finally, there's the issue of VST piracy - do you think the average home user will spend good money on a RE when they can easily get a pirated VST device that does something similar??

This is the main point, piracy of VST is big, even big famous artist are sometimes caught using pirated instruments...

to the best of my knowledge it's the biggest! There's no other dongle for a DAW anywhere in the world than Logic Pro X on Apple iMac 27"( and Reason hasn't been cracked since 5 to 9.5)

[Loque]

A more interesting question imho, is "VST in Reason, effects on the RE SDK development?"

Well we finally got latency compensation... I guess that was needed to make VST work

I'd like to see PH selling VSTs in the shop, I think that would give a lot of developers an easy way to move into the VST market without having to worry about online payments and piracy.

Yea, maybe the licensing can go through the RE adapter and than i can "sync all" of my VST RE.

[QVprod]

Before any speculations of doom, see this from the Propellerhead site

Now that Reason has VST support, will you kill the Rack Extension technology?
Absolutely not! Reason now supports two plugin formats and Rack Extensions will remain a key Reason technology. In fact, combining VSTs and Rack Extensions open up fantastic music making possibilities! Having VSTs in the rack will let us focus our development of the Rack Extension platform even more.

https://www.propellerheads.se/reason-95

[unisyn]

Before any speculations of doom, see this from the Propellerhead site

Now that Reason has VST support, will you kill the Rack Extension technology?
Absolutely not! Reason now supports two plugin formats and Rack Extensions will remain a key Reason technology. In fact, combining VSTs and Rack Extensions open up fantastic music making possibilities! Having VSTs in the rack will let us focus our development of the Rack Extension platform even more.

https://www.propellerheads.se/reason-95

Um, what does this have to do towards the devs or us

[QVprod]

Before any speculations of doom, see this from the Propellerhead site

Now that Reason has VST support, will you kill the Rack Extension technology?
Absolutely not! Reason now supports two plugin formats and Rack Extensions will remain a key Reason technology. In fact, combining VSTs and Rack Extensions open up fantastic music making possibilities! Having VSTs in the rack will let us focus our development of the Rack Extension platform even more.

https://www.propellerheads.se/reason-95

Um, what does this have to do towards the devs or us

This means they're going to continue to develop the format. Has everything to do with us and devs.

Just stressed the major point of the quote in bold in case it wasn't clear

[unisyn]

Before any speculations of doom, see this from the Propellerhead site

Now that Reason has VST support, will you kill the Rack Extension technology?
Absolutely not! Reason now supports two plugin formats and Rack Extensions will remain a key Reason technology. In fact, combining VSTs and Rack Extensions open up fantastic music making possibilities! Having VSTs in the rack will let us focus our development of the Rack Extension platform even more.

https://www.propellerheads.se/reason-95

Um, what does this have to do towards the devs or us

This means they're going to continue to develop the format. Has everything to do with us and devs.

Just stressed the major point of the quote in bold in case it wasn't clear

Yeah, I see your point.
Definitely, Props will still continue to support the platform.

Just saying, if that "We" feel the same as Props or not.

[phleig]

Since this is now an option for Reason, I'll leave this here for everyone to peruse...

Top 25 Free VST Plugins Of 2016

http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2016/12 ... gins-2016/

[raccoonboy]

As REs become as capable as VSTs which is not far off and they have scalable rack etc in reason they'll make it easier to port over and people will sell the RE along with the VST. So you'd get RE, VST and AU versions together when buying in the Reason shop. Maybe for a few quid more. Maybe they could even offer RE versions to people who can show reciept of VST purchase for super low prices. People will definetly use the RE version but have VST handy for resale.

[DLDTech]

Personally I suspect the RE SDK will only get minor improvements from now on, and probably only when they need a new feature for their own products. I can't see them trying to attract any big players into the shop now that VSTs will just work.

Maybe they'll make some way of customising a VST for Reason so that it integrates better? That would be very cool for users (and very bad for us devs!).

Be interesting to see if Reason 10 has any new stock devices, or if PH carry on releasing RE's.

[chk071]

Rack Extensions is a unique format to Reason and it still have one thing that VST doesn't: 100% freedom for the developer to create patching options on the back.

Now that Reason will support VST, more VST developers will keep an eye on Reason and discover what a unique format Rack Extension is. Both VST's and RE's are (almost always) developed in the same language (C++), so besides from the fact that DSP code being "easily" portable, I suspect that VST developers will eye a market with RE's.

VST developers are not only in it for the money - They usually consist of musicians and sound designers. For some, the creative freedom with Rack Extensions will entice them to give the RE format a shot. That's my prediction anyway.

You are a big optimist.

[tumar]

I think we'll still get new CV racks and small utilities. But there is no point to buy any RE synths if we can load some first class instruments like NI or U-He.

[Kenni]

No, I'm a realist, and you're being a pessimist.

There's plenty of well-respected RE developers that has stated they will keep developing RE's even though VST is now a thing. Developers talk with each other, you know.

Rack Extensions is a unique format to Reason and it still have one thing that VST doesn't: 100% freedom for the developer to create patching options on the back.

Now that Reason will support VST, more VST developers will keep an eye on Reason and discover what a unique format Rack Extension is. Both VST's and RE's are (almost always) developed in the same language (C++), so besides from the fact that DSP code being "easily" portable, I suspect that VST developers will eye a market with RE's.

VST developers are not only in it for the money - They usually consist of musicians and sound designers. For some, the creative freedom with Rack Extensions will entice them to give the RE format a shot. That's my prediction anyway.

You are a big optimist.

[chk071]

We will see. Development time and ressources are restricted, especially for small business, which are typical for this business. If a host supports the main plugin format, there may, or may not be much of a reason to support another format.

I guess it also largely depends on how this will work out for Reason, and, in general, the future of Reason. Obviously, they thought it would be a good idea to open up to a bigger market, so, it's at least not totally unrealistic to assume that business might not have been going as well as expected for them.

[DLDTech]

As REs become as capable as VSTs which is not far off and they have scalable rack etc in reason they'll make it easier to port over and people will sell the RE along with the VST. So you'd get RE, VST and AU versions together when buying in the Reason shop. Maybe for a few quid more. Maybe they could even offer RE versions to people who can show reciept of VST purchase for super low prices. People will definetly use the RE version but have VST handy for resale.

I think you've underestimated how much effort is needed to create a RE from a VST.. Unfortunately the graphics engines are completely different, which requires a big rethink for the basic design and layout of a device.

There's no way that any profitable company is going to invest in the RE format if they can just sell the VST. It doesn't make sense to tie a developer up for months to target an audience that already has access to your product.

I was surprised that RP has promised continued support - be interesting to see how long that continues..

[tumar]

Developers talk with each other, you know.

Customers too

[PSoames]

VST support, venture capital investment and a strategy that will diminish RE returns?

Looks like someone is getting their ducks in a row.

[4filegate]

So you can do what can't be done viewtopic.php?t=7492668

[zakalwe]

As REs become as capable as VSTs which is not far off and they have scalable rack etc in reason they'll make it easier to port over and people will sell the RE along with the VST. So you'd get RE, VST and AU versions together when buying in the Reason shop. Maybe for a few quid more. Maybe they could even offer RE versions to people who can show reciept of VST purchase for super low prices. People will definetly use the RE version but have VST handy for resale.

the issue is that companies like NI have their own shop and auth system. if RE were an open platform like VST (inb4 GNU nerds) then you might see more ports but if i can't buy a crossgrade licence from a company as a consumer then i'm really disinclined to purchase an RE version that i can't use anywhere else. if i buy a plugin from u-he i get a staggering amount of platform and plugin support for example. i can even run zebra on a linux VST host if i so desire.

[Kenni]

VST support, venture capital investment and a strategy that will diminish RE returns?

Looks like someone is getting their ducks in a row.

VST support and venture capital are, to my knowledge, totally unrelated.

[chk071]

As REs become as capable as VSTs which is not far off and they have scalable rack etc in reason they'll make it easier to port over and people will sell the RE along with the VST. So you'd get RE, VST and AU versions together when buying in the Reason shop. Maybe for a few quid more. Maybe they could even offer RE versions to people who can show reciept of VST purchase for super low prices. People will definetly use the RE version but have VST handy for resale.

the issue is that companies like NI have their own shop and auth system. if RE were an open platform like VST (inb4 GNU nerds) then you might see more ports but if i can't buy a crossgrade licence from a company as a consumer then i'm really disinclined to purchase an RE version that i can't use anywhere else. if i buy a plugin from u-he i get a staggering amount of platform and plugin support for example. i can even run zebra on a linux VST host if i so desire.

Good point. I would say that that is a serious consideration a lot of people will be facing.

[PSoames]

VST support, venture capital investment and a strategy that will diminish RE returns?

Looks like someone is getting their ducks in a row.

VST support and venture capital are, to my knowledge, totally unrelated.

You don't think that two, recent, rather momentous announcements might be part of a greater business strategy?

Hmmm! Ok.

[FLVZ]

I really wonder if reveal audio are pissed off, now that they just put in so much energy to port spire over to RE.
How about other developers? Whats their view on this? They suddenly got a ton of new competitors.

I personally don't see anything that i really want on the VSTi market, except from the HW integration plugins like Overbridge.

I think you're crazy, The ReSpire synth will have CV capabilities the VST version doesn't have the flexibility of. See the response from RobPapen support on page one!

[raccoonboy]

As REs become as capable as VSTs which is not far off and they have scalable rack etc in reason they'll make it easier to port over and people will sell the RE along with the VST. So you'd get RE, VST and AU versions together when buying in the Reason shop. Maybe for a few quid more. Maybe they could even offer RE versions to people who can show reciept of VST purchase for super low prices. People will definetly use the RE version but have VST handy for resale.

the issue is that companies like NI have their own shop and auth system. if RE were an open platform like VST (inb4 GNU nerds) then you might see more ports but if i can't buy a crossgrade licence from a company as a consumer then i'm really disinclined to purchase an RE version that i can't use anywhere else. if i buy a plugin from u-he i get a staggering amount of platform and plugin support for example. i can even run zebra on a linux VST host if i so desire.

I don't see what would stop props working with these companies so that when someone has say an authorised NI product they get a major discount on their props account for the RE version.

Selling would be a bit more complicated, but could work if the user is restricted to reselling the discounted RE to only people who have the VST version authorised also. Would take some work, but anything is possible. But if it's only £5/£10 extra for the RE version it wouldn't be a huge loss if you couldn't sell.