LPM is in the Shop

[rcbuse]

LPM provides a EBU R128 compliant Loudness Meter in a single rack unit.

- EBU R128 Compilant Loudness Metering
- Momentary, Short Term, and Long Term Loudness Measurements
- LRA Program Loudness Range
- True Peak Level with Program Max
- Settable Loudness Target with Gain Delta

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/lpm/

[TritoneAddiction]

I know I'm a dummy when it comes to a lot of these devices but I don't really understand what it does. Something about loudness metering.
I feel just as stupid as when i first read the description to PSQ
A video showing the device in action would help a lot.

Too many words or musical terms I don't know about:

EBU R128
LRA Program
True Peak Level
Program Max
Gain Delta

Is this something I need in my life or is this for the super nerds only?

Maybe I'm not the target audience here, but you could probably dumb down the description a bit, or at least add some additional explanations.

[ltbrunt00]

Very interesting, Like you I'm not totally sure what I'm looking at here. Is this tool used for defining levels which prevent clipping?

Has anyone tried this. Someone will surely create a video for this. I do have my finger on the buy button but will wait for some further explanations

[rcbuse]

Here is a great video on the subject of "loudness".

This RE would be for someone looking for specific loudness measurements inside Reason.

[mataya]

A great tool for measuring loudness if you will be delivering your audio to a tv production houses.
ebu128 is a European standard and it just changes a db scale on your meter. (often bob katz's K-meters are present on a metering plugin or a limiter, for different purposes)
Purpose of this way of metering is so no one compete over loudness, hurting the average tv viewer.
In other words let's have an equal loudness all over tv, so you don't have to reach for your remote every 5mins in order to adjust the comfortable volume.
It works so far, if I'm being asked.
Companies I delivery my project often ask for a -23dbfs Ebu128 and -1db truepeak.
Only problem is, we strictly use Nunedo and Pro Tools in post production, so not useful for me.
I'm just a bit disappointed that I'm not seeing some grainechoplexmutationfryer option on a Panda plugin, because that's what I'm waiting for.

Thanks
M

[tiker01]

A great tool for measuring loudness if you will be delivering your audio to a tv production houses.
ebu128 is a European standard and it just changes a db scale on your meter. (often bob katz's K-meters are present on a metering plugin or a limiter, for different purposes)
Purpose of this way of metering is so no one compete over loudness, hurting the average tv viewer.
In other words let's have an equal loudness all over tv, so you don't have to reach for your remote every 5mins in order to adjust the comfortable volume.
It works so far, if I'm being asked.
Companies I delivery my project often ask for a -23dbfs Ebu128 and -1db truepeak.
Only problem is, we strictly use Nunedo and Pro Tools in post production, so not useful for me.
I'm just a bit disappointed that I'm not seeing some grainechoplexmutationfryer option on a Panda plugin, because that's what I'm waiting for.

Thanks
M

Not keeping your eyes open enough I think. Just search and you will be provided.

[Galaxy]

A great tool for measuring loudness if you will be delivering your audio to a tv production houses.
ebu128 is a European standard and it just changes a db scale on your meter. (often bob katz's K-meters are present on a metering plugin or a limiter, for different purposes)
Purpose of this way of metering is so no one compete over loudness, hurting the average tv viewer.
In other words let's have an equal loudness all over tv, so you don't have to reach for your remote every 5mins in order to adjust the comfortable volume.
It works so far, if I'm being asked.
Companies I delivery my project often ask for a -23dbfs Ebu128 and -1db truepeak.
Only problem is, we strictly use Nunedo and Pro Tools in post production, so not useful for me.
I'm just a bit disappointed that I'm not seeing some grainechoplexmutationfryer option on a Panda plugin, because that's what I'm waiting for.

Thanks
M

-23dbfs? Isn't that leaving 23dbs of headroom? Or you talkin bout average levels? You said truepeak -1db also? Is that your ceiling? I'm confused, can you elaborate on how you'd set this up in practice, in Reason?

Thanks

[Galaxy]

A great tool for measuring loudness if you will be delivering your audio to a tv production houses.
ebu128 is a European standard and it just changes a db scale on your meter. (often bob katz's K-meters are present on a metering plugin or a limiter, for different purposes)
Purpose of this way of metering is so no one compete over loudness, hurting the average tv viewer.
In other words let's have an equal loudness all over tv, so you don't have to reach for your remote every 5mins in order to adjust the comfortable volume.
It works so far, if I'm being asked.
Companies I delivery my project often ask for a -23dbfs Ebu128 and -1db truepeak.
Only problem is, we strictly use Nunedo and Pro Tools in post production, so not useful for me.
I'm just a bit disappointed that I'm not seeing some grainechoplexmutationfryer option on a Panda plugin, because that's what I'm waiting for.

Thanks
M

Not keeping your eyes open enough I think. Just search and you will be provided.

grainechoplexmutationfryer? What is this? You saying this device has this function? What is this delta thingy? I'm so confused now

I thought I understood this stuff

[mataya]

Delta is dynamic range. Difference between loudest and quietest signal. Average.
-23 is also average loudness.
True peak is -1 and it's called true peak because u use a limiter that is capable of catching the inter sample peaks. I think any 4x oversampled limiter can do this.
I really think you should watch at least a video Panda posted or find more on the subject if you're that interested.

grainechoplexmutationfryer does not exist...yet.

M

[Galaxy]

Delta is dynamic range. Difference between loudest and quietest signal. Average.
-23 is also average loudness.
True peak is -1 and it's called true peak because u use a limiter that is capable of catching the inter sample peaks. I think any 4x oversampled limiter can do this.
I really think you should watch at least a video Panda posted or find more on the subject if you're that interested.

grainechoplexmutationfryer does not exist...yet.

M

Thanks. I actually have seen that video. I understand average vs peak, and thought -23 was an rms measurement or lufs measurement. I thought you said -23dbfs which made me think you're talkin about peak measurements and not average?

Never knew delta is the same as crest factor, thank you for that

So for your work, you submit material that peaks at -1dbfs and has an lufs measurement of -23, meaning it has an average rms level close to -23lufs.

Question: when you say -23 are you speaking about long term, momentary, or short term? Never quite knew when those different time windows should be used. I know long term is for the entire piece, momentary is for a smaller window, and short term is for like 350ms or something like that right?

[mataya]

Oh sorry, I made a mistake while typing. Of course lufs.
Long term, because majority of my projects are longer or full feature.
I think you got it. I mean it's not really complicated.
I often mix and end up at -23lufs +-1db ..if you're close, you can use normalization plugs that are capable of doing ebu128norm and you set up to hit exactly -23.
To be honest I don't really watch momentary. I use what I need to use for keeping with client specs. I'm not making batman or anything like that.
I think I might be wrong on Delta, because I see range on the left and I think this would be the dynamic range read out. ...so what's Delta than?

M

[miscend]

There are already two or three other loudness meters, aren't there.

[rcbuse]

To be honest I don't really watch momentary. I use what I need to use for keeping with client specs. I'm not making batman or anything like that.
I think I might be wrong on Delta, because I see range on the left and I think this would be the dynamic range read out. ...so what's Delta than?

The Delta is the difference between Long Term measurement and your target. It is the amount of total gain correction you would need to apply to reach your target. If your long term loudness was -26 LUFS and your target was -23 LUFS, that would be a delta of 3 LU, which directly corresponds to a needed boost of +3db.

[rcbuse]

There are already two or three other loudness meters, aren't there.

None of which provide the Loudness Range. This is a long term statistic that measures the dynamics of a total program. This number is 90% of the reason I wrote this RE.

loudness_range_matrix.png (36.31 KiB) Viewed 3235 times

[mataya]

To be honest I don't really watch momentary. I use what I need to use for keeping with client specs. I'm not making batman or anything like that.
I think I might be wrong on Delta, because I see range on the left and I think this would be the dynamic range read out. ...so what's Delta than?

The Delta is the difference between Long Term measurement and your target. It is the amount of total gain correction you would need to apply to reach your target. If your long term loudness was -26 LUFS and your target was -23 LUFS, that would be a delta of 3 LU, which directly corresponds to a needed boost of +3db.

Riiiight...thank you. I usually let LMcorrect do this at the end.

M

[Galaxy]

To be honest I don't really watch momentary. I use what I need to use for keeping with client specs. I'm not making batman or anything like that.
I think I might be wrong on Delta, because I see range on the left and I think this would be the dynamic range read out. ...so what's Delta than?

The Delta is the difference between Long Term measurement and your target. It is the amount of total gain correction you would need to apply to reach your target. If your long term loudness was -26 LUFS and your target was -23 LUFS, that would be a delta of 3 LU, which directly corresponds to a needed boost of +3db.

So why is delta -7.9 instead of +7.9 in the image? Edit: oh wait I get it, cause you over shot your target and need to reduce the program level.

What are the number 3 graphic next to delta and range?

[rcbuse]

What are the number 3 graphic next to delta and range?

Thats LU = Loudness Units, LUFS = Loudness Units Full Scale

[rcbuse]

Two more good articles on the subject of Loudness

https://ask.audio/articles/demystifying ... ing-levels
https://ask.audio/articles/how-loudness ... production

[frog974new]

thanks for this Tools
since i'm working as composer/sound designer audio for indie games , this new Re is very helpfull .
That'll make more fast all checks for all normes broadcasting from IEE and majors editors since 2013 .( http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017781/Ga ... s-Industry )

that'll be nice on an udpate , the Re can provide for 1 min or 2 min average Loudness .. for example on loudness game industry , the target its above -23 dblufs for 10 or 15 min of audio . it'll be more revelant to follow range/delta/lufs on 5 min audio file with summary mesures for each min/30 sec

The same with max true peack , max delta and target

[Ashpool]

There are already two or three other loudness meters, aren't there.

None of which provide the Loudness Range. This is a long term statistic that measures the dynamics of a total program. This number is 90% of the reason I wrote this RE.

Hm... I'm not sure if I understand this right. What exactly is the difference between the Loudness Range in LPM and the Integrated Scale in the RE 128 from Red Rock?

[frog974new]

There are already two or three other loudness meters, aren't there.

None of which provide the Loudness Range. This is a long term statistic that measures the dynamics of a total program. This number is 90% of the reason I wrote this RE.

Hm... I'm not sure if I understand this right. What exactly is the difference between the Loudness Range in LPM and the Integrated Scale in the RE 128 from Red Rock?

with the Letric Panda loudness meter , we 've the LU from statitic , give us density and allow us with the delta ,that we need to fix to reach the target ( if i'm wright )

[rcbuse]

There are already two or three other loudness meters, aren't there.

None of which provide the Loudness Range. This is a long term statistic that measures the dynamics of a total program. This number is 90% of the reason I wrote this RE.

Hm... I'm not sure if I understand this right. What exactly is the difference between the Loudness Range in LPM and the Integrated Scale in the RE 128 from Red Rock?

The Integrated Scale in the RE128 is the same as Long Term in LPM.

Loudness Range is how "wide" the loudness is over a long period. Movies have a very wide range, commerical pop music has a very limited range. In this image, you can see how even if all these pieces of audio have the same loudness, they differ in range.

Screen Shot 2017-02-14 at 3.08.29 PM.png (193.11 KiB) Viewed 3015 times

[TritoneAddiction]

So here I am just looking for a quick answer what this RE is for and now it seems like it requires hours of research just to understand the subject. My brain hates this sort of stuff.
I started watching the video but I just can't bring myself to finish it. I envy anyone who finds this stuff interesting, because I'm sure it's important to some degree.

Just one question. Can this device help me put my mix at some sort of standard perception level?
Like can I write a bunch of tracks and this thing helps me figure out at what level I should have them?

Otherwise I give up.

[rcbuse]

So here I am just looking for a quick answer what this RE is for and now it seems like it requires hours of research just to understand the subject. My brain hates this sort of stuff.
I started watching the video but I just can't bring myself to finish it. I envy anyone who finds this stuff interesting, because I'm sure it's important to some degree.

Just one question. Can this device help me put my mix at some sort of standard perception level?
Like can I write a bunch of tracks and this thing helps me figure out at what level I should have them?

Otherwise I give up.

Set your target to:
-23 LUFS for broadcast and commercial audio (TV)
-14 LUFS for Youtube, and around
-16 LUFS for Apple iTunes (Soundcheck).

Run your final track though it to compute the Long Term loudness and delta.
Up the final gain into your limiter buy the given delta.
Do this for all your tracks and they will all have the same perceived loudness.

[frog974new]

So here I am just looking for a quick answer what this RE is for and now it seems like it requires hours of research just to understand the subject. My brain hates this sort of stuff.
I started watching the video but I just can't bring myself to finish it. I envy anyone who finds this stuff interesting, because I'm sure it's important to some degree.

Just one question. Can this device help me put my mix at some sort of standard perception level?
Like can I write a bunch of tracks and this thing helps me figure out at what level I should have them?

Otherwise I give up.

for sure

actually , on Music industry , broadcastin , TV show , game indutry all majors actors since 2013 make a big moove to make some standarts requirement ( cf EBU 128 , BS 1770 and co ) .

this kind of tool meter , allow us to follow all standarts/requirements and keeping the best percepetion level on our mix .
imagine you've a music with a -8 db lufs , on Itunes streaming service , the player will lower the volume at -16 lufs .
if your track haven't enought dynamique range , your track 'll feels too compress .

reminds , more you get dynamic range at low db lufs ( around -18/-23 dblufs ) less you get problem of perception level on all most players ( youtube , spotify , itunes and co ) .

on other hands , if your track is on sync-licenced on TV show , cinema , games , you need to follow requirements from editor and publisher .
example , if you want a day your track on a PS vita game , your music need to be at -14 dblufs .

here some standarts :
- youtube -13 db lufs
- itunes -16 db lufs
- spotify -12 db lufs
- most video game plublisher -23 db lufs
- broadcasting -23 db lufs