Proton Granular Synth!

[Peter]

I really like what Proton does, but IMHO there should be a mode, that keeps the sample untouched, so also some cleaner sounds would be possible. Malström as example is capable to produce clean sounds too.

Well you can make the particle size really large so you still get discernible bits of the audio instead of a complete mangle. Otherwise when you want the whole sample.... Use a sampler?

What you can do is make the capture size really small and just automate the position from start to end.

[deepndark]

As a sound-designer, I would produce a bank of samples, that I would load into Proton - then get lots of sounds by moving the position knob. But if all the results sound noisy, I couldn't use it to create certain kind of sounds at all.

I would assume that you, as a sound designer, would be interested in using the functionality of a granular synth to create unfamiliar timbres.

Are you using mode #2 with a low value on the size knob?

I checked this synth out for the fisrt time yesterday, and it seems a really powerful for sound manipulation. Also everytrhing seems really easy to figure out.
The size knob I understand as well as position etc. I was exploring the patches and there's some great ones there. Anyhow, I also loaded some random samples and I was hoping to get some cleaner results too. You can Lowpass to get ridd of the noise a bit. I would say that NNXT has few flaws (as example you can't assign almost any of the parameters inside it when you unfold it). Proton doesn't let you have a raw mode. So right now we have two halfbaked options.

[Peter]

Anyhow, I also loaded some random samples and I was hoping to get some cleaner results too. You can Lowpass to get ridd of the noise a bit.

I've not had an experience of undesirable noise. Results certainly won't be sample-sterile; they will be gritty but clean enough to translate pretty well.

[etyrnal]

Hi,

Hey, a question: When I load a sample into Proton, is there a 100% settings, so the played sample sounds exactly like a raw sample in a browser?

No, the entire point of Proton is to mangle your samples.

Best regards,
Gustav

I really like what Proton does, but IMHO there should be a mode, that keeps the sample untouched, so also some cleaner sounds would be possible. Malström as example is capable to produce clean sounds too.

NN-19 can do this. it's free too.

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

[joeyluck]

You can automate everything in both Vibro and Proton, and access them all from a Combinator as well. But you cannot right-click to access the automation. You must access the controls from the sequencer since these devices use custom displays.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

But doesn't SDK 2.5 support modifier keys in the display? I figured you'd be able to option+click to edit automation...
It also supposedly supports pop-up displays, right? Which I was guessing would be like right-clicking on a parameter (from there you could choose edit automation). Or was a way to do this still not included?

Sorry, I haven't tried Proton yet and don't have Expanse.
By the way, what is the download size of Proton?

[selig]

I really like what Proton does, but IMHO there should be a mode, that keeps the sample untouched, so also some cleaner sounds would be possible. Malström as example is capable to produce clean sounds too.

Well you can make the particle size really large so you still get discernible bits of the audio instead of a complete mangle. Otherwise when you want the whole sample.... Use a sampler?

As a sound-designer, I would produce a bank of samples, that I would load into Proton - then get lots of sounds by moving the position knob. But if all the results sound noisy, I couldn't use it to create certain kind of sounds at all. NNXT is kind af an answer, but then again, why isn't a raw mode not possible in this synth? Malström is having the shapers for noisy sounds - otherwise the samples remain clean. Dear Proton developer, I think you have created a killer RE, but if there would be an update to keep it raw, you'd sell even more copies of this.

So far you're the only one asking for this, so I'm not sure how many more would be sold. Also, I have many sounds I considered "too clean" when I was working with the synth, too much like the original to be useful IMO. So I know Proton can already produce "clean" sounds, at least as "I" define it.

I get your point/suggestion (though I don't know how it would actually be implemented), but again that's what samplers are for - put Proton in a combi with a sampler and go to town if that's what you want. Otherwise, explore how to make cleaner sounds (using mode 2 for the most part) in Proton - it IS possible to a degree and IMO (the question remains "why").


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[deepndark]

I really like what Proton does, but IMHO there should be a mode, that keeps the sample untouched, so also some cleaner sounds would be possible. Malström as example is capable to produce clean sounds too.

Well you can make the particle size really large so you still get discernible bits of the audio instead of a complete mangle. Otherwise when you want the whole sample.... Use a sampler?

As a sound-designer, I would produce a bank of samples, that I would load into Proton - then get lots of sounds by moving the position knob. But if all the results sound noisy, I couldn't use it to create certain kind of sounds at all. NNXT is kind af an answer, but then again, why isn't a raw mode not possible in this synth? Malström is having the shapers for noisy sounds - otherwise the samples remain clean. Dear Proton developer, I think you have created a killer RE, but if there would be an update to keep it raw, you'd sell even more copies of this.

So far you're the only one asking for this, so I'm not sure how many more would be sold. Also, I have many sounds I considered "too clean" when I was working with the synth, too much like the original to be useful IMO. So I know Proton can already produce "clean" sounds, at least as "I" define it.

I get your point/suggestion (though I don't know how it would actually be implemented), but again that's what samplers are for - put Proton in a combi with a sampler and go to town if that's what you want. Otherwise, explore how to make cleaner sounds (using mode 2 for the most part) in Proton - it IS possible to a degree and IMO (the question remains "why").


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hey, I even didn't know about mode 2. Just found where it is.
Yeah, well, this thing is a beast anyway and a door to millions of unusual sounds.

[Peter]

Hey, I even didn't know about mode 2. Just found where it is.
Yeah, well, this thing is a beast anyway and a door to millions of unusual sounds.

Welcome to the other side where the magic happens!

[deepndark]

Hey, I even didn't know about mode 2. Just found where it is.
Yeah, well, this thing is a beast anyway and a door to millions of unusual sounds.

Welcome to the other side where the magic happens!

[buddard]

You can automate everything in both Vibro and Proton, and access them all from a Combinator as well. But you cannot right-click to access the automation. You must access the controls from the sequencer since these devices use custom displays.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

But doesn't SDK 2.5 support modifier keys in the display? I figured you'd be able to option+click to edit automation...
It also supposedly supports pop-up displays, right? Which I was guessing would be like right-clicking on a parameter (from there you could choose edit automation). Or was a way to do this still not included?

Yes, modifier keys are supported (Alt, Shift and Ctrl/Cmd), but there's no way for the RE to tell Reason that it wants to create an automation lane. Anyway, the modifiers are really useful to for instance change the drag resolution, reset values, open popup menus etc.

[bobseekone]

Hey, I even didn't know about mode 2. Just found where it is.
Yeah, well, this thing is a beast anyway and a door to millions of unusual sounds.

Perhaps it was due to my limited experience with granular synthesis before, but I had a hard time trying to make playable patches with mode 1. However, when mode 2 was introduced it opened this instrument IMHO to lots of creative options. It's great to put in a waveform and tweak away to see what can come out the output jacks! The modulation possibilities can let you add subtle touches or really mangle things if you like. Proton is lots of fun to work with!

[Ocean of Waves]

Can you explain the songwriting you do with Proton Peter? I've read in another thread you did and I'm curious how

[Peter]

Can you explain the songwriting you do with Proton Peter? I've read in another thread you did and I'm curious how

The way I'm producing my Proton album is going to a folder of selected eight bar loop ideas, bouncing all of the melodic content to individual tracks, load them all up into their own Proton synths, then basically just tweak away. It's important for me to already have the content (filled out eight bar loops with at least a few melodies) which is why I said it's good for breaking out of that eight bar creative block besides the added benefit of morphing them into more interesting tracks. As everybody is saying, mode 2 is the winning ticket - then just mess with the position and capture size. It's like a creative gold mine for me!

[Ocean of Waves]

thanks

[bobseekone]

The way I'm producing my Proton album is going to a folder of selected eight bar loop ideas, bouncing all of the melodic content to individual tracks, load them all up into their own Proton synths, then basically just tweak away. It's important for me to already have the content (filled out eight bar loops with at least a few melodies) which is why I said it's good for breaking out of that eight bar creative block besides the added benefit of morphing them into more interesting tracks. As everybody is saying, mode 2 is the winning ticket - then just mess with the position and capture size. It's like a creative gold mine for me!

That sounds really interesting Peter - I'd like to hear how it turns out!

[joeyluck]

You can automate everything in both Vibro and Proton, and access them all from a Combinator as well. But you cannot right-click to access the automation. You must access the controls from the sequencer since these devices use custom displays.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

But doesn't SDK 2.5 support modifier keys in the display? I figured you'd be able to option+click to edit automation...
It also supposedly supports pop-up displays, right? Which I was guessing would be like right-clicking on a parameter (from there you could choose edit automation). Or was a way to do this still not included?

Yes, modifier keys are supported (Alt, Shift and Ctrl/Cmd), but there's no way for the RE to tell Reason that it wants to create an automation lane. Anyway, the modifiers are really useful to for instance change the drag resolution, reset values, open popup menus etc.

Thanks for clarifying.

I wonder then what benefits a custom display have now (aside from graphical type stuff like waveforms and drawing) if developers can have hidable/switchable widgets and use 2D assets... Would seem that the interface of Proton could be done with regular widgets and still look the same. I haven't used it yet, so it's very possible I'm overlooking something here.

[deepndark]

Hey, I even didn't know about mode 2. Just found where it is.
Yeah, well, this thing is a beast anyway and a door to millions of unusual sounds.

Perhaps it was due to my limited experience with granular synthesis before, but I had a hard time trying to make playable patches with mode 1. However, when mode 2 was introduced it opened this instrument IMHO to lots of creative options. It's great to put in a waveform and tweak away to see what can come out the output jacks! The modulation possibilities can let you add subtle touches or really mangle things if you like. Proton is lots of fun to work with!

Same here, I totally like the mode 2 now, after Selig told about it. I am trying out all kinds of samples and have noticed how this can do lots of cool unusual sounds.

[Gorgon]

Hi,

Wait a minute. Proton does not actually store the sample?

No, Rack Extension patch files refer to samples. I believe all devices in Reason that use samples do the same thing.

Best regards,
Gustav

Well that sucks.

[etyrnal]

Hi,

Wait a minute. Proton does not actually store the sample?

No, Rack Extension patch files refer to samples. I believe all devices in Reason that use samples do the same thing.

Best regards,
Gustav

Well that sucks.

I completely understand the idea of saving a large patches with many samples in a folder, but if you have a simple patch that has just has one or two or three small or medium-size samples, it really seems like it would make a lot of sense to be able to just store it in a self-contained file. It's going to wind up using the same amount of space on disk anyway, and I don't see why the sample wouldn't be a reusable, you could just make it so that when the proton sample browser is open that it can peek inside of patch files that contain samples.

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[Abstrax]

Hi,

Wait a minute. Proton does not actually store the sample?

No, Rack Extension patch files refer to samples. I believe all devices in Reason that use samples do the same thing.

Best regards,
Gustav

Well that sucks.

I completely understand the idea of saving a large patches with many samples in a folder, but if you have a simple patch that has just has one or two or three small or medium-size samples, it really seems like it would make a lot of sense to be able to just store it in a self-contained file. It's going to wind up using the same amount of space on disk anyway, and I don't see why the sample wouldn't be a reusable, you could just make it so that when the proton sample browser is open that it can peek inside of patch files that contain samples.

I couldn't agree more. I like to have my sound design time and arrangement/composing/mixing completely separated. I might spend weeks at a time just making and saving combinators, patches, audio samples. It causes a lot of headaches down the line if I can't just save a patch for later use. Especially since I have patches made 5 years and 2 computers ago.

The most important part of this is that it isn't a proton problem. This is a propellerhead problem. Typical TBH. It will make all sample-loaded RE patches a major inconvenience. It's also why I never went balls deep making RV patches with the convolution reverb features.

[deepndark]

About the Proton's automation: It seems like only volume knob can be automated. Is there a reason for this?

[normen]

About the Proton's automation: It seems like only volume knob can be automated. Is there a reason for this?

Most everything can be automated but you have to select it in the dropdown of a lane, not Alt-click the knob. Thats because it uses a custom display and not "regular" knobs.

[tiker01]

About the Proton's automation: It seems like only volume knob can be automated. Is there a reason for this?

Most everything can be automated but you have to select it in the dropdown of a lane, not Alt-click the knob. Thats because it uses a custom display and not "regular" knobs.

Or move the knob during recording

[deepndark]

Where's the dropdown menu? A screenshot would be nice.

[Ottostrom]

Where's the dropdown menu? A screenshot would be nice.

Just go back to the first page of the thread