SUNDER amplitude splitter by Unfiltered Audio is released

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fieldframe
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11 Jan 2017

JiggeryPokery wrote:
O1B wrote:
3 Stars? on day one?
The 'Hater'ation is getting Predictable. Diagnosis: Developer Envy.
It almost certainly wasn't yet rated when you posted that: all new devices default to three stars. (Don't ask me why, they just are ;) I guess it looks better than no stars)
Propellerhead really ought to change this. While I personally don't give much weight to star ratings, other stores have proven that they can affect sales, so it's counterproductive to default to a medium value. The most common default is to show ghosted or outlined stars, or just a message such as "not enough ratings".

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Ottostrom
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11 Jan 2017

Are you kidding me!? Yesterday I was building a combinator which let you control how much of an effects was applied depending on how much volume was fed into it. And I though "maybe I could make this into a rack extension, with sends & returns and more controls". Then this gets released THE NEXT DAY :shock: Maybe its for the best, since I could never have pulled it off this brilliantly.

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normen
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11 Jan 2017

selig wrote:Yes, time domain. It's like a multi-band crossover rotated 90°, affecting all frequencies equally. And as you suspected, audio is only in one or two bands at a time, unlike a multi-band device. It's more like a 3-4 way panner than a splitter. There are many analogies I've come up with over the years to try to describe this concept, since it's not a common idea in the audio world (which I won't go into unless asked). But once you understand it you see it's really quite simple basic concept IMO. Whether or not the concept is useful to anyone is altogether another question!
Sure, I can see uses for both, thats why I bought it even though I wasn't 100% sure which this one was, 35€ isn't really too much anyway. The simple test I explained above quickly showed which it was.

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Shokstar
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11 Jan 2017

I bought it too but I haven't use for a gate splitter at the moment. It's great to see unfiltered audio is back in the game :)

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selig
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11 Jan 2017

Ottostrom wrote:Are you kidding me!? Yesterday I was building a combinator which let you control how much of an effects was applied depending on how much volume was fed into it. And I though "maybe I could make this into a rack extension, with sends & returns and more controls". Then this gets released THE NEXT DAY :shock: Maybe its for the best, since I could never have pulled it off this brilliantly.
This is not exactly the same thing - this splits the audio FIRST, then you apply effects to the individual bands. So if you're talking about the top/loud band, then it's similar. But you ALSO have lower bands as well which do different things. And also, you THEN blend all bands back together, which again is different from what you were planning.

All to say, maybe there's still a market for what you're doing?


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Ottostrom
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11 Jan 2017

selig wrote: This is not exactly the same thing - this splits the audio FIRST, then you apply effects to the individual bands. So if you're talking about the top/loud band, then it's similar. But you ALSO have lower bands as well which do different things. And also, you THEN blend all bands back together, which again is different from what you were planning.

All to say, maybe there's still a market for what you're doing?


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Yeah, after some testing I realized that it was not really the same concept, as the combinator works more like a dry/wet knob controlled by volume. Too bad you have to have a company website to sign up as a developer cause I think it could be interesting to try to develop something.



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selig
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11 Jan 2017

Ottostrom wrote:
selig wrote: This is not exactly the same thing - this splits the audio FIRST, then you apply effects to the individual bands. So if you're talking about the top/loud band, then it's similar. But you ALSO have lower bands as well which do different things. And also, you THEN blend all bands back together, which again is different from what you were planning.

All to say, maybe there's still a market for what you're doing?


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Yeah, after some testing I realized that it was not really the same concept, as the combinator works more like a dry/wet knob controlled by volume. Too bad you have to have a company website to sign up as a developer cause I think it could be interesting to try to develop something.

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You should talk to other devs to see if they would be interested. Obviously I can't even get my version of a level splitter out ahead of the competition, so clearly I'm not able to take on outside projects! But there are plenty who may be willing to at least take a look!
:)


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Ottostrom
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11 Jan 2017

selig wrote: You should talk to other devs to see if they would be interested. Obviously I can't even get my version of a level splitter out ahead of the competition, so clearly I'm not able to take on outside projects! But there are plenty who may be willing to at least take a look!
:)


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Were you really working on a level splitter? I offer my condolences! Hopefully some of that work can be transferred over to another project, or maybe they are different enough to justify it. Good advice about the developer thing though. I might have to snoop around a bit :D

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selig
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11 Jan 2017

Ottostrom wrote:
selig wrote: You should talk to other devs to see if they would be interested. Obviously I can't even get my version of a level splitter out ahead of the competition, so clearly I'm not able to take on outside projects! But there are plenty who may be willing to at least take a look!
:)


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Were you really working on a level splitter? I offer my condolences! Hopefully some of that work can be transferred over to another project, or maybe they are different enough to justify it. Good advice about the developer thing though. I might have to snoop around a bit :D

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I've been using this technique literally for YEARS now (always figured someone else would come up with it eventually), ever since I first started messing with Reaktor. It was one of the first things I built, a simple two way splitter, which morphed into the Leveler. Will still release my version eventually since it offers many more features, but probably not any time soon. Too many other devices in the cue ahead of this one! Back to work with me, much to do! ;)
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Ottostrom
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11 Jan 2017

selig wrote: I've been using this technique literally for YEARS now (always figured someone else would come up with it eventually), ever since I first started messing with Reaktor. It was one of the first things I built, a simple two way splitter, which morphed into the Leveler. Will still release my version eventually since it offers many more features, but probably not any time soon. Too many other devices in the cue ahead of this one! Back to work with me, much to do! ;)
So that's how the leveler gets its transparency :) Great to hear man, can't wait to see what devices that starts to surface!

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ScuzzyEye
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11 Jan 2017

Ottostrom wrote:
selig wrote: You should talk to other devs to see if they would be interested. Obviously I can't even get my version of a level splitter out ahead of the competition, so clearly I'm not able to take on outside projects! But there are plenty who may be willing to at least take a look!
:)
Were you really working on a level splitter? I offer my condolences! Hopefully some of that work can be transferred over to another project, or maybe they are different enough to justify it. Good advice about the developer thing though. I might have to snoop around a bit :D
What's funny is when I saw iZotope's DDLY, I thought to myself, "that would be a cool idea, doing level based splitting, and instead of sending it to just a few different delays I could make each level its own set of output jacks to use with any effect." Hadn't started on anything, but filed the idea away.

Apparently this was an idea who's time had come. :)

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Ottostrom
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11 Jan 2017

ScuzzyEye wrote: What's funny is when I saw iZotope's DDLY, I thought to myself, "that would be a cool idea, doing level based splitting, and instead of sending it to just a few different delays I could make each level its own set of output jacks to use with any effect." Hadn't started on anything, but filed the idea away.

Apparently this was an idea who's time had come. :)
Isn't there a theory that every big invention would have been created even if the original inventor never did it? :)

Ostermilk
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11 Jan 2017

I'm trialling it now.

It certainly works as a transient leveller (or expander) and makes gates like I've always wanted a gate to be like, that's just for starters.

What would be super cool, but likely very difficult, would be to split the bands dynamically as a percentage of amplitude rather than having fixed levels.

unfilteredaudio
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11 Jan 2017

Thanks, everyone! This is Michael from Unfiltered. Sunder is mainly Josh's labor of love, but I'll answer a few of the quick questions. Josh will be on in a bit. We've subscribed to this thread, so we will try to answer any questions that you have.

-Sunder works entirely in the time domain. It's similar to a multi-band version of G8's Reject Outputs but with a lot more functionality. As such, the only latency that is incurred is when using the lookahead control. So, no FFTs here.

-Josh has been working on Sunder since the original G8 came out. A lot of original research on his part is in this device.

-DDLY works on the same principles. With this, you could built a sort of uber-DDLY with a third band and more detailed per-band delay settings (i.e. a cascade of The Echo racks).

-I did the demos for the store page. Is there a preferred place to upload project files? Everything was made using standard library REX loops. Each loop runs a few bars dry and then a few bars through Sunder. Sunder's individual bands are then sent to built-in effects. My favorite is the third demo. The top band is sent to Neptune for that amplitude-sensitive harmonizer effect.

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Concep
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11 Jan 2017

I'm wondering if this effect is like 2 noise gates stacked with the band reject outputs used to split the signal. Am I missing something? It looks like a cool RE.

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selig
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11 Jan 2017

Ostermilk wrote:I'm trialling it now.

It certainly works as a transient leveller (or expander) and makes gates like I've always wanted a gate to be like, that's just for starters.

What would be super cool, but likely very difficult, would be to split the bands dynamically as a percentage of amplitude rather than having fixed levels.
As a percentage of which amplitude, instantaneous, short term, long term? You would have to first measure amplitude then dynamically adjust the 'crossovers', which may or may not give expected results I would think - or am I talking about something different?
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Ostermilk
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11 Jan 2017

selig wrote:
Ostermilk wrote:I'm trialling it now.

It certainly works as a transient leveller (or expander) and makes gates like I've always wanted a gate to be like, that's just for starters.

What would be super cool, but likely very difficult, would be to split the bands dynamically as a percentage of amplitude rather than having fixed levels.
As a percentage of which amplitude, instantaneous, short term, long term? You would have to first measure amplitude then dynamically adjust the 'crossovers', which may or may not give expected results I would think - or am I talking about something different?
Exactly, that's why I think it would be extremely difficult on a per-sample basis, for those precise reasons.

I'm liking the device so far.

Another good use I've found is as a pre-reverb device to remove some of the peaks that can sound harsh when 'verb is applied.
Last edited by Ostermilk on 11 Jan 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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selig
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11 Jan 2017

Ostermilk wrote:
selig wrote:
Ostermilk wrote:I'm trialling it now.

It certainly works as a transient leveller (or expander) and makes gates like I've always wanted a gate to be like, that's just for starters.

What would be super cool, but likely very difficult, would be to split the bands dynamically as a percentage of amplitude rather than having fixed levels.
As a percentage of which amplitude, instantaneous, short term, long term? You would have to first measure amplitude then dynamically adjust the 'crossovers', which may or may not give expected results I would think - or am I talking about something different?
Exactly, that's why I think it would be extremely difficult on a per-sample basis, for those precise reasons.
I can think of a few ways around this, but none are 'perfect'...


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normen
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11 Jan 2017

Just for shits&giggles I did a 32-band combinator with 32 sunders, one for each band. I did the splits with Yoko so they're no where near perfect, just listening to the recombined Yokos theres all kinds of artifacts. I can't even run it on the Laptop I am using right now, the DSP bar is maxing out right away, even at 4096 samples buffer size - had to render the audio offline to listen to what I was doing ^^ Might be I also made some patch mistakes, hard to check anything without being able to try it ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0bqlvzqz8jvi ... e.cmb?dl=1

Thanks @Michael for the answers!

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dvdrtldg
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11 Jan 2017

Goes great on drums

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selig
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11 Jan 2017

normen wrote:Just for shits&giggles I did a 32-band combinator with 32 sunders, one for each band. I did the splits with Yoko so they're no where near perfect, just listening to the recombined Yokos theres all kinds of artifacts. I can't even run it on the Laptop I am using right now, the DSP bar is maxing out right away, even at 4096 samples buffer size - had to render the audio offline to listen to what I was doing ^^ Might be I also made some patch mistakes, hard to check anything without being able to try it ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0bqlvzqz8jvi ... e.cmb?dl=1

Thanks @Michael for the answers!
Funny you tried that - I've got a very interesting 4x4 prototype that does that (to a less extreme degree).
;)

Hey Norman, you have Reaktor?


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normen
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11 Jan 2017

selig wrote:
normen wrote:Just for shits&giggles I did a 32-band combinator with 32 sunders, one for each band. I did the splits with Yoko so they're no where near perfect, just listening to the recombined Yokos theres all kinds of artifacts. I can't even run it on the Laptop I am using right now, the DSP bar is maxing out right away, even at 4096 samples buffer size - had to render the audio offline to listen to what I was doing ^^ Might be I also made some patch mistakes, hard to check anything without being able to try it ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0bqlvzqz8jvi ... e.cmb?dl=1

Thanks @Michael for the answers!
Funny you tried that - I've got a very interesting 4x4 prototype that does that (to a less extreme degree).
;)

Hey Norman, you have Reaktor?


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Nah, I figure one of these days I might get it though, its becoming very powerful. I used MAX, SonicBirth and plain C++ until now when I really wanted to try something in terms of "new" or unusual audio processing. Nudge me via PM if you ask because of something specifc though ;)

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Loque
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11 Jan 2017

normen wrote:Just for shits&giggles I did a 32-band combinator with 32 sunders, one for each band. I did the splits with Yoko so they're no where near perfect, just listening to the recombined Yokos theres all kinds of artifacts. I can't even run it on the Laptop I am using right now, the DSP bar is maxing out right away, even at 4096 samples buffer size - had to render the audio offline to listen to what I was doing ^^ Might be I also made some patch mistakes, hard to check anything without being able to try it ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0bqlvzqz8jvi ... e.cmb?dl=1

Thanks @Michael for the answers!
There are a few EQs that pull out 32 or more bands. RE 302 or RE 60 comes in my mind.
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normen
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11 Jan 2017

Loque wrote:There are a few EQs that pull out 32 or more bands. RE 302 or RE 60 comes in my mind.
Ah right, the RE60, forgot about that one! The RE302 only puts out CV info for the single bands though. Might try this again with the RE60.. I have a feeling its more the Yokos than the Sunders pulling down the performance.

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Benedict
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11 Jan 2017

This may be of interest



So far most demos use drums and I wanted to see how the Sunder RE goes with pure synth sounds of the old school variety. Of course if it works with my sounds then it will also work on Super Saws and Wobble Basses.

Pretty simple application: apply The Echo to the Mid and create a short Modulated Delay. What you hear is Dry then A-Bs Sunder & The Echo. Crackles are from screen recording and pops are from effects switching in and out. The final section is a mash-mix of the brass & strings to see how the Sunder patch compares in a mix situation. Both use a Send to a Reverb.

Sunder is on with the darker green block and straight Echo with the lighter green block. This lets you contrast between the usual method and Sunder level switching. The Echo patch is the same in both situations to be fair.

My conclusion is that using Sunder creates a more vibrant and less typical-synth result which could definitely be welcome in many a mix.

:)
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