Kilohearts' Disperser released

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eusti
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Post 27 Jan 2016


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EnochLight
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Post 27 Jan 2016

I'm really glad they released this as a Rack Extension, but disappointed that there is no spectral/waveform display analysis shown on the screen like their VST (and yes, this can be done - see Synapse Audio's GQ-7 Rack Extension). :(
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EnochLight
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Post 27 Jan 2016

EnochLight wrote:I'm really glad they released this as a Rack Extension, but disappointed that there is no spectral/waveform display analysis shown on the screen like their VST (and yes, this can be done - see Synapse Audio's GQ-7 Rack Extension). :(
Ohhhh snap - looks like they may consider it:
Without going into technical SDK details, this was left out since the only way we know how to do is a bit hacky and hadn't seen any others do it like that so we chose not to either. But, as you point out, some actually do it so... We'll investigate
:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :)
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Olivier
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Post 27 Jan 2016

Really liking the audio examples. Certainly giving this a try soon!!
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normen
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Post 27 Jan 2016

Heheh, this thing is sick, with the pinch parameter all the way up its great to add some sustain to drums, heres what it did to the good ol' Disco Kit in Redrum. Three dispersers in a row for 60Hz (BD) and 163Hz (Snare) and 6.86kHz (HiHat) and one Dynamite compressor to round it off:


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joeyluck
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Post 27 Jan 2016

EnochLight wrote:
EnochLight wrote:I'm really glad they released this as a Rack Extension, but disappointed that there is no spectral/waveform display analysis shown on the screen like their VST (and yes, this can be done - see Synapse Audio's GQ-7 Rack Extension). :(
Ohhhh snap - looks like they may consider it:
Without going into technical SDK details, this was left out since the only way we know how to do is a bit hacky and hadn't seen any others do it like that so we chose not to either. But, as you point out, some actually do it so... We'll investigate
:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :)
I think this would be a bonus if possible, but certainly not necessary for this device.
IMO it would just be fun visual feedback, but not something I personally would need to reference, as hearing is believing :)
Also, the display offers the notes relevant to the frequencies which comes in quite handy.

This sounds awesome and looks fantastic! Very happy to have it in the Reason rack! :D
I'm using it on everything from drums to the ABL3

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riemac
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Post 27 Jan 2016

joeyluck wrote:
EnochLight wrote:
EnochLight wrote: I think this would be a bonus if possible, but certainly not necessary for this device.
IMO it would just be fun visual feedback, but not something I personally would need to reference, as hearing is believing :)
Also, the display offers the notes relevant to the frequencies which comes in quite handy.
I wish the spectrum analyser of Reason or the Synapse GQ7 would display the notes relevant to the frequencies.
This would help very much for tuning kickdrums.

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EnochLight
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Post 27 Jan 2016

Visual feedback by way of a spectral analyzer or waveform display is absolutely critical for my way of working, these days. I realize it's all about the sound, and hearing the results is ultimately the end result, but having a visual aid is huge for me. It's not just a pretty toy or flashy extra, IMHO.

I was one of the biggest critics of Reason's lack of spectral display prior to 7's spectral analysis and one of its biggest fans when it finally came out. This is the sort of display that I've had access to in VST for over a decade, and is still sorely absent in most of Reason's RE's.

Still, Kiloheart's Disperser RE is awesome - very glad they released this!
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joeyluck
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Post 27 Jan 2016

I can understand that. I am using Reason's spectrum analyzer on the channel. GQ-7's had too much lag for me to be useful. I wonder if that's a condition of a 'dual-purpose' custom display or if that's just an issue of GQ-7...

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Skullture
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Post 27 Jan 2016

Yes yes, the Reason rack game is going strong again :) must have this one

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EnochLight
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Post 27 Jan 2016

joeyluck wrote:I wonder if that's a condition of a 'dual-purpose' custom display or if that's just an issue of GQ-7...
Judging from what Kilohearts said above, I'm guessing it has to do with the "hack" approach for achieving said display in RE's currently. Even Richard @ Synapse Audio admitted it was no easy feat.
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Tincture
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Post 27 Jan 2016

It's a strange beast this. I think I'll mainly use it on kicks and basslines in fairly subtle amounts. I did have fun tho' hooking up some lfos to the cv ins and think some nice creative sounds might come from this on non kbd synth stuff.

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tronam
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Post 27 Jan 2016

An interesting effect that can very easily add quite a bit of perceived power to kick drums, especially in an electronic dance music context like trance. It might be a tough sell as a bread'n'butter effect, but a video tutorial or two demonstrating its usefulness in some real world scenarios could go a long way to help. Echobode suffered a bit at first as many didn't understand its potential beyond a niche special effect and sales suffered.
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EnochLight
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Post 27 Jan 2016

tronam wrote:An interesting effect that can very easily add quite a bit of perceived power to kick drums, especially in an electronic dance music context like trance. It might be a tough sell as a bread'n'butter effect, but a video tutorial or two demonstrating its usefulness in some real world scenarios could go a long way to help. Echobode suffered a bit at first as many didn't understand its potential beyond a niche special effect and sales suffered.
I agree with this. Also, Echobode suffered because Magnus did nothing in the realm of tutorials or product showcase videos (aside from a quirky promo video clip). It was a critical mistake, IMHO, as these days potential customers need to be shown exactly how they can use a product to their advantage. But, I digress...

I love Disperser (and Echobode)!
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dvdrtldg
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Post 27 Jan 2016

This is really nice. Probably best (or most obviously useful) on drums, but LFO modulation makes it great for bringing subtle rhythmic pulses OR weird harmonic instability to synth drones. I've spent the past couple of hours hooking it up to FM4 and liking it a lot. Maybe a bit "niche" for $39 but I'm going to grab it anyway

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mayzon
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Post 28 Jan 2016

Good to see another one from kilohearts :thumbs_up:

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selig
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Post 28 Jan 2016

joeyluck wrote:I can understand that. I am using Reason's spectrum analyzer on the channel. GQ-7's had too much lag for me to be useful. I wonder if that's a condition of a 'dual-purpose' custom display or if that's just an issue of GQ-7...
Why should it matter if the display was even a beat behind? It will still show the energy across the spectrum. Taking it further, very "fast" spectrum displays are not useful to me, as they show EVERY little hit/transient rather than showing where the AVERAGE energy is located - it is the average energy you are working with, and needing to EQ, and a display that jumps around all the time won't show you where the MOST energy is over time. Hope this makes sense… :)
[EDIT: thinking further, here's an example. Imagine a drum bus with a kick and snare. The display first shows the kick then the snare, then maybe both (IF they hit together). But your EQ etc. will affect the ENTIRE signal, not just one hit. What is really needed IMO is a display that shows the OVERALL spectrum so you know where the most/least energy is located. It doesn't matter if it's a beat or more behind, as there is no advantage to seeing the spectral data in "real time" IMO. But maybe that's just me, or I'm not explaining clearly. I'll think further on this subject…]
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michal22
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Post 28 Jan 2016

What does this plugin actually does?
I tried to get this effect by splitting the signal into two bands using mclass stereo imager. Then I turned the upper band phase by Selig gain. Then you can retune band division in stereo imager. The result came out a similar, but still different. Someone knows what exactly does this plug?
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normen
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Post 28 Jan 2016

michal22 wrote:What does this plugin actually does?
I tried to get this effect by splitting the signal into two bands using mclass stereo imager. Then I turned the upper band phase by Selig gain. Then you can retune band division in stereo imager. The result came out a similar, but still different. Someone knows what exactly does this plug?
http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php ... 51#p239513

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joeyluck
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Post 28 Jan 2016

selig wrote:
joeyluck wrote:I can understand that. I am using Reason's spectrum analyzer on the channel. GQ-7's had too much lag for me to be useful. I wonder if that's a condition of a 'dual-purpose' custom display or if that's just an issue of GQ-7...
Why should it matter if the display was even a beat behind? It will still show the energy across the spectrum. Taking it further, very "fast" spectrum displays are not useful to me, as they show EVERY little hit/transient rather than showing where the AVERAGE energy is located - it is the average energy you are working with, and needing to EQ, and a display that jumps around all the time won't show you where the MOST energy is over time. Hope this makes sense… :)
[EDIT: thinking further, here's an example. Imagine a drum bus with a kick and snare. The display first shows the kick then the snare, then maybe both (IF they hit together). But your EQ etc. will affect the ENTIRE signal, not just one hit. What is really needed IMO is a display that shows the OVERALL spectrum so you know where the most/least energy is located. It doesn't matter if it's a beat or more behind, as there is no advantage to seeing the spectral data in "real time" IMO. But maybe that's just me, or I'm not explaining clearly. I'll think further on this subject…]
I suppose one could also say seeing less is better as well (such as something like the RE 60 which shows specific frequencies; which is hardware I'm used to using in some theatres).

To me, features important for spectrum analyzers are freeze functions, avg/peak options (similar to benefits you suggest), and release time/speed. I still want what I'm seeing to be as instant as possible, otherwise it's a distraction for me personally. Adjusting the speed on spectrum analyzers I've used adjusts the speed in which it releases, not the speed in which it detects. Latency in an analyzer is not something that everyone can work with. That's all. Sorry to get off-topic. Was only using it as an example in terms of potential limitations when dealing with the custom display. I don't think the GQ-7 analyzer responds the way it does by design or intention. I could be wrong.

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selig
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Post 28 Jan 2016

joeyluck wrote:
selig wrote:
joeyluck wrote:I can understand that. I am using Reason's spectrum analyzer on the channel. GQ-7's had too much lag for me to be useful. I wonder if that's a condition of a 'dual-purpose' custom display or if that's just an issue of GQ-7...
Why should it matter if the display was even a beat behind? It will still show the energy across the spectrum. Taking it further, very "fast" spectrum displays are not useful to me, as they show EVERY little hit/transient rather than showing where the AVERAGE energy is located - it is the average energy you are working with, and needing to EQ, and a display that jumps around all the time won't show you where the MOST energy is over time. Hope this makes sense… :)
[EDIT: thinking further, here's an example. Imagine a drum bus with a kick and snare. The display first shows the kick then the snare, then maybe both (IF they hit together). But your EQ etc. will affect the ENTIRE signal, not just one hit. What is really needed IMO is a display that shows the OVERALL spectrum so you know where the most/least energy is located. It doesn't matter if it's a beat or more behind, as there is no advantage to seeing the spectral data in "real time" IMO. But maybe that's just me, or I'm not explaining clearly. I'll think further on this subject…]
I suppose one could also say seeing less is better as well (such as something like the RE 60 which shows specific frequencies; which is hardware I'm used to using in some theatres).

To me, features important for spectrum analyzers are freeze functions, avg/peak options (similar to benefits you suggest), and release time/speed. I still want what I'm seeing to be as instant as possible, otherwise it's a distraction for me personally. Adjusting the speed on spectrum analyzers I've used adjusts the speed in which it releases, not the speed in which it detects. Latency in an analyzer is not something that everyone can work with. That's all. Sorry to get off-topic. Was only using it as an example in terms of potential limitations when dealing with the custom display. I don't think the GQ-7 analyzer responds the way it does by design or intention. I could be wrong.
OK I get what you're saying, but I don't see what information you get with an instantaneous display vs one that is behind - or is it just a "distraction" to you?

What I'm saying is that yes, you need the display to account for every peak and not miss any transients. Imagine a display that has near infinite hold time - you won't actually see new transients hit because the former transients will still be displayed. This information will actually be MORE useful than a display that tracks every single transient because it will show you the actual energy in the signal over time rather than the energy "snapshot" at one point in time.

That's all I'm saying - real time displays have less value to me, and would rather have a more accurate display with lag than a less accurate one that appears to follow every transient as it happens. I guess it's a matter of form over function for me?
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joeyluck
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Post 28 Jan 2016

selig wrote:
joeyluck wrote:
selig wrote:
joeyluck wrote:I can understand that. I am using Reason's spectrum analyzer on the channel. GQ-7's had too much lag for me to be useful. I wonder if that's a condition of a 'dual-purpose' custom display or if that's just an issue of GQ-7...
Why should it matter if the display was even a beat behind? It will still show the energy across the spectrum. Taking it further, very "fast" spectrum displays are not useful to me, as they show EVERY little hit/transient rather than showing where the AVERAGE energy is located - it is the average energy you are working with, and needing to EQ, and a display that jumps around all the time won't show you where the MOST energy is over time. Hope this makes sense… :)
[EDIT: thinking further, here's an example. Imagine a drum bus with a kick and snare. The display first shows the kick then the snare, then maybe both (IF they hit together). But your EQ etc. will affect the ENTIRE signal, not just one hit. What is really needed IMO is a display that shows the OVERALL spectrum so you know where the most/least energy is located. It doesn't matter if it's a beat or more behind, as there is no advantage to seeing the spectral data in "real time" IMO. But maybe that's just me, or I'm not explaining clearly. I'll think further on this subject…]
I suppose one could also say seeing less is better as well (such as something like the RE 60 which shows specific frequencies; which is hardware I'm used to using in some theatres).

To me, features important for spectrum analyzers are freeze functions, avg/peak options (similar to benefits you suggest), and release time/speed. I still want what I'm seeing to be as instant as possible, otherwise it's a distraction for me personally. Adjusting the speed on spectrum analyzers I've used adjusts the speed in which it releases, not the speed in which it detects. Latency in an analyzer is not something that everyone can work with. That's all. Sorry to get off-topic. Was only using it as an example in terms of potential limitations when dealing with the custom display. I don't think the GQ-7 analyzer responds the way it does by design or intention. I could be wrong.
OK I get what you're saying, but I don't see what information you get with an instantaneous display vs one that is behind - or is it just a "distraction" to you?

What I'm saying is that yes, you need the display to account for every peak and not miss any transients. Imagine a display that has near infinite hold time - you won't actually see new transients hit because the former transients will still be displayed. This information will actually be MORE useful than a display that tracks every single transient because it will show you the actual energy in the signal over time rather than the energy "snapshot" at one point in time.

That's all I'm saying - real time displays have less value to me, and would rather have a more accurate display with lag than a less accurate one that appears to follow every transient as it happens. I guess it's a matter of form over function for me?
Yup. It's just a matter of preference. Was just using it as an example for it's behavior. Whether or not that is something useful to someone is up to them, but I don't think the latency I experienced when using it was intended by the developer? That's all. Enochlight mentioned the lack of waveform display on Disperser, Kilohearts responded that it's tricky and the only way they know how to do it is a bit hacky... I chimed in with my experience with GQ-7's latency not knowing if that might be relevant to that conversation.

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joeyluck
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Post 28 Jan 2016

More on topic of Disperser... It is a very good friend of Faturator :)

But I'm using all kinds of effects along with it such as Echobode, Uhbik G, GClip...
It's cool hearing what it can do in different parts of the effect chain. And also what it can do using several instances.

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Anders_kiloHearts
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Post 28 Jan 2016

Hey guys!

Made a new vid with a non-drum example of how Disperser can be used. Check it out. :)



(In a real track I'd probably make it more subtle, but got to crank it up a bit for demos.)

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tronam
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Post 28 Jan 2016

Anders_kiloHearts wrote:Hey guys!

Made a new vid with a non-drum example of how Disperser can be used. Check it out. :)



(In a real track I'd probably make it more subtle, but got to crank it up a bit for demos.)
Sweet! And don't worry, I already bought it. ;)
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