"Elements" Echo Unit

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Klaus-Morlock
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12 Dec 2015

I'm trailing this at the moment. What does it offer that The Echo doesn't?

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pjeudy
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12 Dec 2015

Klaus-Morlock wrote:I'm trailing this at the moment. What does it offer that The Echo doesn't?
But you are "trailing" it !? we should be asking you :D
Put it against the Echo,, test all the parameters and let us know.
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AirRaidAudio
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14 Dec 2015

Klaus-Morlock wrote:I'm trailing this at the moment. What does it offer that The Echo doesn't?
Though facially similar, Echo and S-Delay are very different devices.

Conceptually, the biggest difference is that S-Delay tries to do just one thing—i.e., delays—really well, and delegates other effects via the feedback loop breakout sockets; whereas the Echo is a jack of all trades, but an expert at none.

For example, the Echo doesn't permit you to set the right channel delay time to a shorter value than the left, whereas S-Delay not only lets you do so, but also lets you modulate both times separately and cross-feedback between them, creating all kinds of possibilities. Conversely, the Echo has a lot of stuff in the box that S-Delay doesn't, such as distortions, wobbles and whatnot. That's not to say that you can't create such effects with S-Delay, but you'll have to combine it with other devices such as Scream 4 or Elements–Distort for a full spectrum.

Ultimately, which device you're going to prefer is going to depend on how you work, and what you're trying to achieve. If you're looking for a comprehensive and warm-sounding tape unit, then the Echo will have you sorted nine times out of ten. If on the other hand you're after a dedicated, 2U delay which has been designed with flexibly and modularity in mind, then S-Delay knows no equal.

But as Pjeudy said, there's no better way to know if it's right for you that to give the demo the full work-over.

Hope this helps,

Dom
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Benedict
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14 Dec 2015

Sounds like the better question may be: S-Delay versus Titus?

:)
Benedict Roff-Marsh
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AirRaidAudio
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15 Dec 2015

Benedict wrote:Sounds like the better question may be: S-Delay versus Titus?

:)
Good question. Again, these are very different devices. Titus does some things that S-Delay doesn't (such as custom synced delay times) and vice-versa (stereo delays, envelope follower, stereo modulation, filters, etc.).

When designing this type of device, one of the main questions is always going to be what do we include and what do we leave out. In the case of S-Delay, I'm particularly glad that we included the LP and HP filters. Although they may appear to be non-essential controls, with little "character" of their own, I personally find them to be invaluable when integrating external effects into the feedback loop, and taming frequency build-ups in more extreme patches. These are the sort of user-oriented details which I believe make the various Elements from our series fit together so well.

But once again, it all depends on what you're trying to achieve.

Hope that helps,

Dom
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Benedict
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15 Dec 2015

Thanks for the answer. Great to see you so involved Dom.

Here's a Q: are the Filters before or after the first delay instance? Seems to me that filters etc are commonly applied between the delay and feedback which I find annoying as the first echo is always too 'clean'.

:)
Benedict Roff-Marsh
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AirRaidAudio
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16 Dec 2015

Benedict wrote:Here's a Q: are the Filters before or after the first delay instance? Seems to me that filters etc are commonly applied between the delay and feedback which I find annoying as the first echo is always too 'clean'.
The filters are applied to the very first delay instance, then recursively. One cool "dirty" trick you can do is to crank the feedback all the way up, then reign in the feedback duration solely by adjusting the filters and creating a narrow bandpass. Of course, to take this to the next level, you can then start modulating it all.

Here's a demo, why not!

(Dry - delayed - automated - modulated with just one DS-LFO)
Last edited by AirRaidAudio on 16 Dec 2015, edited 1 time in total.
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Libraquaricorn
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16 Dec 2015

I'd trade in my Echo for this device any day... It's fun to use and will still take me some time to master. You can do some crazy unpredictable stuff with it - even lose total control, I will defenitely buy it, eventually.

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Benedict
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17 Dec 2015

Trying S-Delay as part of the Comp and having a strange thing. Quite commonly after all sound has faded and the unit gone to sleep a new note creates a sort of "spring" sound on the first note which seems to sound like the Delay is getting back to-speed/time as it wakes.

Anyone else having anything similar?

:)

BTW I am wondering why the Delay time only goes down to 10 ms. I would love it to go as close to 0 as possible. Seems like a waste not to have access to the Flangy part of town.
Benedict Roff-Marsh
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AirRaidAudio
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17 Dec 2015

Benedict wrote:Trying S-Delay as part of the Comp and having a strange thing. Quite commonly after all sound has faded and the unit gone to sleep a new note creates a sort of "spring" sound on the first note which seems to sound like the Delay is getting back to-speed/time as it wakes.
I've PMed you about this.
Benedict wrote:BTW I am wondering why the Delay time only goes down to 10 ms. I would love it to go as close to 0 as possible. Seems like a waste not to have access to the Flangy part of town.
We initially had it going down to 0ms but Props informed us that this could cause technical issues as far as the external feedback effects were concerned, so we opted to change it. As for the Flangy stuff, we've been hearing some very nice things about a quaint little device simply known as "Chorus" ;)

Cheers,

Dom
Our full RE catalogue: shop.propellerheads.se/browse/?q=AirRaid+Audio
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Benedict
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17 Dec 2015

Having played with Chorus I know what you mean ;)

:)
Benedict Roff-Marsh
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MDTerps2015
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17 Dec 2015

AirRaidAudio wrote:
Benedict wrote:Trying S-Delay as part of the Comp and having a strange thing. Quite commonly after all sound has faded and the unit gone to sleep a new note creates a sort of "spring" sound on the first note which seems to sound like the Delay is getting back to-speed/time as it wakes.
I've PMed you about this.
Benedict wrote:BTW I am wondering why the Delay time only goes down to 10 ms. I would love it to go as close to 0 as possible. Seems like a waste not to have access to the Flangy part of town.
We initially had it going down to 0ms but Props informed us that this could cause technical issues as far as the external feedback effects were concerned, so we opted to change it. As for the Flangy stuff, we've been hearing some very nice things about a quaint little device simply known as "Chorus" ;)

Cheers,

Dom
Benedict its so nice to see that im not the only "guy or gal" harassing you in PM. I know i ask a lot of questions and watching this go down im going to have to try or trial these but truthfully I have jiggery's stuff in effects so im content but maybe just maybe these is something there that i might like. Im already in trial with chorus as the BassDSP just doesnt have the simplicity because i cant understand cross/ all band or whatever those options are on the unit. I listen to things and pretty much gave up on it. Maybe im not patient enough. Moral of the story is I think you are a really good guy to share your thoughts on these issues with everyone. Maybe more users do but you are my go to guy. thx man and i appreciate it.
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dioxide
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17 Dec 2015

I'm impressed with these devices and I will be picking up a few I think. Good to see a manual linked directly from the Shop page also, every devs should do this IMO.

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Benedict
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17 Dec 2015

MDTerps2015 wrote:Benedict its so nice to see that im not the only "guy or gal" harassing you in PM. I know i ask a lot of questions and watching this go down im going to have to try or trial these but truthfully I have jiggery's stuff in effects so im content but maybe just maybe these is something there that i might like. Im already in trial with chorus as the BassDSP just doesnt have the simplicity because i cant understand cross/ all band or whatever those options are on the unit. I listen to things and pretty much gave up on it. Maybe im not patient enough. Moral of the story is I think you are a really good guy to share your thoughts on these issues with everyone. Maybe more users do but you are my go to guy. thx man and i appreciate it.
Thanks. Always happy to help. Never push too hard into what makes no sense, use what does and then use that sense to help unravel the other things. Most important thing is to remain positive and avoid the trap of making yourself feel stupid, useless, etc.

Cross Feedback is like normal Feedback but the Left signal is sent back to the Right and vica verca. You lose some stereo-ness but great for more lush, complex tails like in reverb.

:)
Benedict Roff-Marsh
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dvdrtldg
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17 Dec 2015

It's a verrrrrrrrry nice delay unit. Hook up some LFOs to it and you're really cooking

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