The Haas Effect Question!!

[Blast]

Hi Everyone, I am new here and have been going through the post and have learned a lot about about Reason 8 and now its my DAW of choice. Anyway I was reading an article about the Haas effect, in the article they were using a stereo delay in Protools to achieve this kind of effect in professional mixing. My question is since there is no stereo delay in Reason, can i use a Rack Extension like the 3plex delay by only using two taps to achieve this type of effect in Reason? or would this create latency problem? Thanks

[selig]

Hi Everyone, I am new here and have been going through the post and have learned a lot about about Reason 8 and now its my DAW of choice. Anyway I was reading an article about the Haas effect, in the article they were using a stereo delay in Protools to achieve this kind of effect in professional mixing. My question is since there is no stereo delay in Reason, can i use a Rack Extension like the 3plex delay by only using two taps to achieve this type of effect in Reason? or would this create latency problem? Thanks

You don't need a stereo delay for this. Not sure what article you read, but the idea is that you can localize a sound by using Precedence Effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect
Helmut Haas established his "Haas Effect" concept in 1951 by setting up two speakers on a roof top, and delaying one of the speakers. He found that we will localize the sound that arrives first, meaning that we will assume the sound comes from that direction even when the delayed sound is as loud OR LOUDER (up to 10 dB) than the one arriving first!

For most sounds, the delay time can be from 5 ms up to 50 ms before we begin to perceive the sounds as being "delayed". But it should be noted that for percussive sounds (sounds with strong transient energy) this time is MUCH shorter, typically 20-30 ms at most.

Some folks take this information and use it to create a 'fake stereo' or 'widening' effect by delaying ONLY one side of the stereo field by up to 30-50 ms (experiment to find the setting that works best). Most of the time you begin with a mono source such as a bass or lead sound, split it any number of ways, and delay ONLY one side. The side you delay will become the 'weak' side, and depending on the delay time the sound will appear to come more from the non-delayed side.

Issues to be aware of: this can be an extremely artificial effect, and seems to work better on synth sound sources than natural sources (this is very subjective, so YMMV even more than it typically does). Percussive sounds cannot typically be delayed as much as smoother sustained sounds without revealing the "delay" effect. Also, it's not at all mono compatible because it will produce STRONG comb filtering when combined in any degree to mono. Remember, these sort of delays are the same length range as flanger/chorus/doubler effects, which intentionally produce comb filtering effects!

In Reason, the DDL-1 half-rack device is ideal for creating this effect IMO. You don't really need anything any more sophisticated, and the DDL-1's ability to be adjusted in single millisecond increments makes it ideal for this effect. On a mix or audio channel, simply insert it and then disconnect the right side and dial up a 5-50 ms delay.

[Benedict]

Wo he sed. You can use ANY Delay in Reason. You only need to delay one channel. This pair of articles may help you with more practical solutions:

http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2013/12/30 ... tere-ereo/
http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2014/08/10 ... onclusion/

[Blast]

Wo he sed. You can use ANY Delay in Reason. You only need to delay one channel. This pair of articles may help you with more practical solutions:

http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2013/12/30 ... tere-ereo/
http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2014/08/10 ... onclusion/

Got It. Thanks Guys.

[selig]

Wo he sed. You can use ANY Delay in Reason. You only need to delay one channel. This pair of articles may help you with more practical solutions:

http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2013/12/30 ... tere-ereo/
http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2014/08/10 ... onclusion/

+1
I highly recommend any/all of Benedict's tutorials!

[Exowildebeest]

I use Kilohearts' Faturator's Stereo knob a lot for what seems to be a Haas-like effect. I'm not quite sure what exactly it does (Selig?) but it's surprisingly mono compatible, in my experience.

[nooomy]

I use the haas effect on all my songs. I like to apply it on most things even bass,

1 ms haas on the high freq of a bass makes it super fat

I just split the signal in two band and apply the haas with a ddl 1 on the high band,
1 ms 0 feedback. Sounds great

[ffmusicdj]

Actually, this effect can easily be achieved through Mr. Overdrive and Distort Chain if you have it.

Distort Chain has a delay on it, and an internal pan for the FX so you can pan the delayed signal on one channel, and you'll get the dry signal on the other channel. Easy Hass Effect.

I also use the Hass Effect on almost everything I work on and made it easy to implement.
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/mr-overdrive/
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... ion-chain/

[Blast]

[quote="ffmusicdj"]Actually, this effect can easily be achieved through Mr. Overdrive and Distort Chain if you have it.

Distort Chain has a delay on it, and an internal pan for the FX so you can pan the delayed signal on one channel, and you'll get the dry signal on the other channel.

I also use the Hass Effect on almost everything I work on and made it easy to implement.
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... ion-chain/[]


I do not have either of the two you mention but i will download them on trial, I was already looking to get the Distort Chain. However i like the Selig's idea of the DDl-1

[avasopht]

You can get even finer control with Thor's delays. I created a Haas panner Combinator using Thor with a little extra "character" knob (useful for increasing mono compatibility).

I will add that this is programmed for fine haas panning, but you can edit the combinator to span a wider delay range if you wish.

[Benedict]

This pair of articles may help you with more practical solutions:

http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2013/12/30 ... tere-ereo/
http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2014/08/10 ... onclusion/

+1
I highly recommend any/all of Benedict's tutorials!
[/quote]

Thanks Selig

[selig]

You can get even finer control with Thor's delays. I created a Haas panner Combinator using Thor with a little extra "character" knob (useful for increasing mono compatibility).

I will add that this is programmed for fine haas panning, but you can edit the combinator to span a wider delay range if you wish.

I assume you mean the Chorus in Thor, not the Delay? But you are limited to 24 ms total with that approach (if that's even what you were meaning to say). Either way, it's a great suggestion!

[Blast]

Ok so I tried Distort Chain and it was an instant buy. I like the fact that i can do a lot more with it including nice stereo spread and saturation

[ffmusicdj]

Ok so I tried Distort Chain and it was an instant buy. I like the fact that i can do a lot more with it including nice stereo spread and saturation

Thank you very much for your support! The RE is still on sale, try it yourself guys. I hope Props is eventually going to update the old price again ...

I've use to use the DDL but yea, it's hard to set up and sometimes it's not the style I'm going for, or I set up the wrong channel, etc. In comes the Distort Chain. Hope you enjoy it!

[ravisoni]

Some folks take this information and use it to create a 'fake stereo' or 'widening' effect by delaying ONLY one side of the stereo field by up to 30-50 ms (experiment to find the setting that works best). Most of the time you begin with a mono source such as a bass or lead sound, split it any number of ways, and delay ONLY one side. The side you delay will become the 'weak' side, and depending on the delay time the sound will appear to come more from the non-delayed side.

Do you mean the actual effect is a mono sound given a left and right delay, and say left delay is 5 ms and right one 25 ms with the mono still coming in at 0 ms?

[normen]

Do you mean the actual effect is a mono sound given a left and right delay, and say left delay is 5 ms and right one 25 ms with the mono still coming in at 0 ms?

There is only two channels. "Mono" means the same signal from both channels at the same time.

[ravisoni]

Do you mean the actual effect is a mono sound given a left and right delay, and say left delay is 5 ms and right one 25 ms with the mono still coming in at 0 ms?

There is only two channels. "Mono" means the same signal from both channels at the same time.

That was my idea of channels; just trying to understand fake vs real Haas effect.

[normen]

That was my idea of channels; just trying to understand fake vs real Haas effect.

Nobody talked about a "fake Haas effect", Selig pretty clearly explained what the Haas effect is.