just bought A-List Acoustic Guitar

[moneykube]

are there any other patches available made by users or refill makers that I may have ignored because I didn't own it?

[boobytrap]

A-List RE's hit lowest price ever, just only for 39. i wanna buy A-List Power Chords.

[eusti]

Good question, moneykube... Would be curious about that too!
And regarding the sales: Yup, wish I had snapped it up at a comparable price too, but I got to use for a while now too...

D.

[craven]

the opinions on the two a-lists are really diverse - I'm very tempted to get them both actually, as these sounds are really missing in Reason for me.

What I dislike so far:
- only one octave for the chords? I wish it had two (might have been overkill, but well)
- difficult to use with small keyboard
- no single notes (okay, it is focused on chords, I understand)
- sounds somewhat artificial sometimes

What I like:
- easy way to have guitar strumming in Reason
- I can use all the cabs with it
- sounds good in a mix
- inspiring way to compose

[eusti]

the opinions on the two a-lists are really diverse - I'm very tempted to get them both actually, as these sounds are really missing in Reason for me.

What I dislike so far:
- only one octave for the chords? I wish it had two (might have been overkill, but well)
- difficult to use with small keyboard
- no single notes (okay, it is focused on chords, I understand)
- sounds somewhat artificial sometimes

What I like:
- easy way to have guitar strumming in Reason
- I can use all the cabs with it
- sounds good in a mix
- inspiring way to compose

I agree that it sounds a bit dead / sterile at times and I think it would have been great to have different ways to play those chords as well...
But I still like it... But you are correct, it could be better...

D.

[craven]

I agree that it sounds a bit dead / sterile at times and I think it would have been great to have different ways to play those chords as well...
But I still like it... But you are correct, it could be better...

I'm still gonna get both, though. It's cool to have it. Now I should also get the Miroslav Gold Refill and I'm done for a while. (this never works, I'm saving up for the update which amounts to the same price in the end)

[moneykube]

A-List RE's hit lowest price ever, just only for 39. i wanna buy A-List Power Chords.

super price… couldn't resist…. if you run the acoustic guitar through an amp… bang… power cords

[JesusChristIsLord]

the opinions on the two a-lists are really diverse - I'm very tempted to get them both actually, as these sounds are really missing in Reason for me.

What I dislike so far:
- only one octave for the chords? I wish it had two (might have been overkill, but well)
- difficult to use with small keyboard
- no single notes (okay, it is focused on chords, I understand)
- sounds somewhat artificial sometimes

What I like:
- easy way to have guitar strumming in Reason
- I can use all the cabs with it
- sounds good in a mix
- inspiring way to compose

I agree that it sounds a bit dead / sterile at times and I think it would have been great to have different ways to play those chords as well...
But I still like it... But you are correct, it could be better...

D.

Wait... So it should be called "b-list guitars"?

[eusti]

Well, you might want to run your own tests, especially with both of them on sale for quite a low price this weekend...

D.

[boobytrap]

A-List RE's hit lowest price ever, just only for 39. i wanna buy A-List Power Chords.

super price… couldn't resist…. if you run the acoustic guitar through an amp… bang… power cords

I'm not a fan of guitar. Only admit it's price, now.

I plan to buy Backline Rig also include acoustic guitar like 15$. Why would I spend 39 for 15

[eusti]

A-List RE's hit lowest price ever, just only for 39. i wanna buy A-List Power Chords.

super price… couldn't resist…. if you run the acoustic guitar through an amp… bang… power cords

I'm not a fan of guitar. Only admit it's price, now.

I plan to buy Backline Rig also include acoustic guitar like 15$. Why would I spend 39 for 15

Not quite sure I follow your logic... Why would you spend anything if you don't like it???

D.

[Theo.M]

A-List RE's hit lowest price ever, just only for 39. i wanna buy A-List Power Chords.

they really went to $39? that's it, I will never ever buy any RE again unless the developer comes in here and gives us a promise that the sales price won't ever be any lower than a certain percentage.

For propellerhead, they have proven they care exactly ZERO about previous customers, and I have really stayed out of this price negativity for ages now but this has done my head in. To sell both for cheaper than what they asked for one? I will never ever ever buy , especially a propellerhead RE, ever again unless it is literally at a bargain bin rock bottom price like this, cause they either put RE's out of the blue in $150 bundles worth 6x as much at the prices we paid, as in about 80%+ discount, or get slashed to mere pennies in comparison for single sales. Last time props. Last time.

I honestly and sincerely advise everyone else to do the same. Vote with your wallet, don't ever buy a propellerhead RE at their asking price ever again, wait till minimum 60% off.. they have proven they will go that low for single RE's, so 60% is now the benchmark minimum. Not black friday or anything else if it is not as good as 60%.. and if you have most effects from an RE bundle and they won't allow you to complete your bundle, do NOT buy the remaining effects until they get off their ass and provide a complete your bundle option, or they do the right thing and let you have a bundle for free, when you own 7 of the 8 effects for example, and have spent $800 and now the bundle is $150 and you are missing only one effect. I am tired of this and NO product in the industry has ever been devalued and slashed to such a degree as RE's have.. it's really annoying. Who cares anymore that they don't allow 2nd hand sales anyway, you'd never even get 50% of your money back as the constant sales are cheaper.. maybe this is their strategy, who knows. All i know is they have rubbed me the wrong way the last time.

You know what? If sales drop dead in the water, until specials are on, and everyone really IS patient and follows this method, ultimately the RE dev's will lose and propellerheads will lose and maybe they will start doing something about it and offering a better system, with the most important being, "complete my bundle".
And they will stop "forcing" devs to join the insanity bundles. AFAIK they just about force the devs' hands to join those crazy special bundles.

[boobytrap]

Not quite sure I follow your logic... Why would you spend anything if you don't like it???

D.

You're right. but for me, this is a chance to save 60$. The point is the amount I can save. As a EDM lover, guitar is not so important To me. Who knows about the next price drop of A-List. Last Black Friday was 69. But this is the lowest. I believe if I buy now I can use it later.

[eusti]

A-List RE's hit lowest price ever, just only for 39. i wanna buy A-List Power Chords.

they really went to $39? that's it, I will never ever buy any RE again unless the developer comes in here and gives us a promise that the sales price won't ever be any lower than a certain percentage.

For propellerhead, they have proven they care exactly ZERO about previous customers, and I have really stayed out of this price negativity for ages now but this has done my head in. To sell both for cheaper than what they asked for one? I will never ever ever buy , especially a propellerhead RE, ever again unless it is literally at a bargain bin rock bottom price like this, cause they either put RE's out of the blue in $150 bundles worth 6x as much at the prices we paid, as in about 80%+ discount, or get slashed to mere pennies in comparison for single sales. Last time props. Last time.

I honestly and sincerely advise everyone else to do the same. Vote with your wallet, don't ever buy a propellerhead RE at their asking price ever again, wait till minimum 60% off.. they have proven they will go that low for single RE's, so 60% is now the benchmark minimum. Not black friday or anything else if it is not as good as 60%.. and if you have most effects from an RE bundle and they won't allow you to complete your bundle, do NOT buy the remaining effects until they get off their ass and provide a complete your bundle option, or they do the right thing and let you have a bundle for free, when you own 7 of the 8 effects for example, and have spent $800 and now the bundle is $150 and you are missing only one effect. I am tired of this and NO product in the industry has ever been devalued and slashed to such a degree as RE's have.. it's really annoying. Who cares anymore that they don't allow 2nd hand sales anyway, you'd never even get 50% of your money back as the constant sales are cheaper.. maybe this is their strategy, who knows. All i know is they have rubbed me the wrong way the last time.

You know what? If sales drop dead in the water, until specials are on, and everyone really IS patient and follows this method, ultimately the RE dev's will lose and propellerheads will lose and maybe they will start doing something about it and offering a better system, with the most important being, "complete my bundle".
And they will stop "forcing" devs to join the insanity bundles. AFAIK they just about force the devs' hands to join those crazy special bundles.

Well, that is one way of lucking at things. I bet though that in the long run it might have an effect on the props, but I'd assume in the short run not buying any REs will have a much more immediate effect on the developers.... Which most likely is going to be to stop developing REs...
Not sure how this benefits us, the users that would like to have good tools at acceptable prices... So, I guess the question is two fold: What do you feel are adequate prices for the tools you want to use? Are you willing to buy those tools at those prices although they might be offered cheaper at some point in the future?

D.

[eusti]

Not quite sure I follow your logic... Why would you spend anything if you don't like it???

D.

You're right. but for me, this is a chance to save 60$. The point is the amount I can save. As a EDM lover, guitar is not so important To me. Who knows about the next price drop of A-List. Last Black Friday was 69. But this is the lowest. I believe if I buy now I can use it later.

Thanks for explaining. The question is always (for me): How much do I think the software / tool is worth to me? Am I willing to commit to spending this amount even though it might be offered cheaper at a later date? There is no general way to answer this... So, if you already know you'll buy something that includes the RE for cheaper, there is of course no reason to buy it now, especially with no "complete my bundle" feature at the shop...
But there could always be a bigger sale at the horizon... Does that mean you'll never buy?

D.

[boobytrap]

A-List RE's hit lowest price ever, just only for 39. i wanna buy A-List Power Chords.

they really went to $39? that's it, I will never ever buy any RE again unless the developer comes in here and gives us a promise that the sales price won't ever be any lower than a certain percentage.

Well I feel also that's bit a humiliation or like that. But this isn't a VST and its only capable with Reason users. I believe that's why RE prices are cheap than VST's. Didn't you notice many of RE's prices permanently dropped past few months.

[boobytrap]

Thanks for explaining. The question is always (for me): How much do I think the software / tool is worth to me? Am I willing to commit to spending this amount even though it might be offered cheaper at a later date? There is no general way to answer this... So, if you already know you'll buy something that includes the RE for cheaper, there is of course no reason to buy it now, especially with no "complete my bundle" feature at the shop...
But there could always be a bigger sale at the horizon... Does that mean you'll never buy?

D.

Honestly I don't have GQ-7 that's the most important RE to me at this time. I missed 2 times of 79$ include last May madness sale. This is not about 20$. I'm worried about the opportunity that I missed.

[challism]

A-List RE's hit lowest price ever, just only for 39. i wanna buy A-List Power Chords.

super price… couldn't resist…. if you run the acoustic guitar through an amp… bang… power cords

I was amazed at the sound I got from A-list Acoustic when I demoed it and ran it thru some cabs and distortion effects. It sounds really, really good and convincing. I'm a fan. Gonna buy both, and I am a guitar player. I can't resist these prices, though. They are great for getting a quick and easy idea going without busting out the gear and setting it up, or if you are sitting in the airport waiting for your flight (as I find myself doing all the time), etc, etc. Good REs to have.



Theo, I have been putting off buying both A-list REs in hopes that they would go on sale. Not even the $69 sale I have seen them at, at least twice before. No, I have been patiently waiting for them to go on sale for exactly the price they are at right now. This is the price I have wanted to spend. And I guess I got lucky, I got my wish. BUT................................ YOU have gotten to use your REs all this time. I have not been able to use them. And that has GOT to be worth paying extra, to be able to use them for this long, while I have been waiting. Now I can use them. I was patient. I waited for a sale, that may have never come, mind you. I never buy an RE unless it is on sale. That's why I STILL don't have Echobode. But I don't want to live in regret or have any anger because I missed a good sale, or spent more than I should have. So, I do agree with your logic to wait for a sale. Brilliant! But I disagree with being upset that it has gone on sale for less than you paid. That's the way it goes. You found them of enough value to buy them for the price you did, at the time you did. You found them valuable and useful enough to trade your dollars for them back then. The value isn't gone. And you have been able to use them all this time. Be upset about it, if you want, but maybe looking at it from this other angle may help alleviate some of your bad feelings.

[gak]

I love the idea of it. I don't like recording acoustic guitar. IF you have a nice sounding acoustic, it's just too hard to record. You really cannot just plug the jack in and go.....sounds terrible. Micing is really too difficult (especially this time of year when it's so hot a/c/fans are really necessary all the time) so I'll likely give the demo a whirl.

BTW, I might have missed it, but how long on sale? End of month? (that would be great to give a proper demo)

[challism]

I think it's only running for 3 days.

[eusti]

I love the idea of it. I don't like recording acoustic guitar. IF you have a nice sounding acoustic, it's just too hard to record. You really cannot just plug the jack in and go.....sounds terrible. Micing is really too difficult (especially this time of year when it's so hot a/c/fans are really necessary all the time) so I'll likely give the demo a whirl.

BTW, I might have missed it, but how long on sale? End of month? (that would be great to give a proper demo)

This weekend only, I think.

D.

[moneykube]

tomorrow… last day

[JNeffLind]

super price… couldn't resist…. if you run the acoustic guitar through an amp… bang… power cords

Actually... it's not possible to get power chords with A-list acoustic. Power chords only have the 1st and 5th tone and are generally played with lots of distortion. Including more than a couple tones makes them sound overly muddy and the harmonics of the distortion provides the 3rd, or something. Not trying to sound like a "know-it-all" but it's not known by many people that power chords actually have some theory behind them, as opposed to them just being chords that are thumped on rhymically with distortion.

[Theo.M]

A-List RE's hit lowest price ever, just only for 39. i wanna buy A-List Power Chords.

super price… couldn't resist…. if you run the acoustic guitar through an amp… bang… power cords

I was amazed at the sound I got from A-list Acoustic when I demoed it and ran it thru some cabs and distortion effects. It sounds really, really good and convincing. I'm a fan. Gonna buy both, and I am a guitar player. I can't resist these prices, though. They are great for getting a quick and easy idea going without busting out the gear and setting it up, or if you are sitting in the airport waiting for your flight (as I find myself doing all the time), etc, etc. Good REs to have.



Theo, I have been putting off buying both A-list REs in hopes that they would go on sale. Not even the $69 sale I have seen them at, at least twice before. No, I have been patiently waiting for them to go on sale for exactly the price they are at right now. This is the price I have wanted to spend. And I guess I got lucky, I got my wish. BUT................................ YOU have gotten to use your REs all this time. I have not been able to use them. And that has GOT to be worth paying extra, to be able to use them for this long, while I have been waiting. Now I can use them. I was patient. I waited for a sale, that may have never come, mind you. I never buy an RE unless it is on sale. That's why I STILL don't have Echobode. But I don't want to live in regret or have any anger because I missed a good sale, or spent more than I should have. So, I do agree with your logic to wait for a sale. Brilliant! But I disagree with being upset that it has gone on sale for less than you paid. That's the way it goes. You found them of enough value to buy them for the price you did, at the time you did. You found them valuable and useful enough to trade your dollars for them back then. The value isn't gone. And you have been able to use them all this time. Be upset about it, if you want, but maybe looking at it from this other angle may help alleviate some of your bad feelings.

Hi this is a very long post but rest assured it is very level headed and polite. My little vent above has satiated me from forum "vents" till the end of the year hopefully (and all, sorry about that ).

I get where you are coming from but I can only see this from my personal situation.. Remember i was ill for 4 whole months and wasn't at reasontalk, well hardly at all for those months, and barely ever opened Reason itself in that time - I only bought, the A-List for example, at the 69 because i thought i would never get them at that again (well not till 2015 black friday) and i would make use of them well before then. Sure I am using them the last few weeks but $39 still hurts. Alot.

Also, with mcdsp I watched all sales patterns and noticed mcdsp did not participate in any summer or black friday sale either the first year they were released OR the following year, nor did they answer any forum posts regarding so. If you remember i noted at the PUF and made a topic about it that mcdsp along with u-he were the only devs at that time that didn't do sales. So i felt confident that they never would, and bought at $119. I was happy with that policy. A few weeks later $49.. That was devastating. That's a difference of $70 or $100 in my currency after card transaction fees.. 100 whole dollars. You know, synapse is OK.. he does $20 off here and there, zvork does $20, jiggery does $20.. that's all decent and I respect them for it.
Synapse are one of the very first players and still you don't see 70% "thrash" discounts. More respect to them again.

I would honestly support a rule that devs had to set a price and at maximum were only allowed to discount it up to 30% in a sale..and only once a year... This 70% business and bundles I paid a thousand dollars for, now for $150 has got to stop. It's rude and literally quite offensive, and the devs that participate also offend me to a degree, even ones i never thought would do it, and they have. There is plenty of stuff I didn't have a need for at that time but bought it at what's called "impulse buy" at discount sale times, thinking that these products would rarely ever be that low.. I did NOT expect to see such drastic discounts and bundles in the near future. Furthermore propellerhead really rub salt in the wound with the rig bundles, they just plain hurt.. but even worse, is that they don't say "ok you have all but one, just pay a few $$ and get into the bundle".. THAT'S the bit that really gets me, not so much the bundles themselves. I hope people understand where I am coming from in at least this one regard with rig bundles. There are rig bundles with 10 effects where I am missing two, that i have already paid over $600 for, the bundle was on sale for $150, and it would cost me the same just to buy the two missing effects. You really think that's ok in any customer relation business practise? I don't, not at all. They have done NOTHING to say thanks for being a loyal customer. They just keep dropping lower, and lower, and lower.. to the point next year the A-list BUNDLE will be $29. Seriously that's how it's starting to feel. They have destroyed any perceived value in RE's.

Right now, anyone besides an absolute professional who charges for studio time and needs the plugin and can make the money back quickly, would have to be absurd to pay asking price for ANY RE.. and rather they should wait for sales. I really hope people can try gel with me here, how that in the long run, this is hurting the RE dev's bottom line. KNOWING that *everything* , well almost, will eventually be slashed to bottom of the barrel prices, is not giving much incentive to ever buy RE's at normal price, is it? How is that healthy? It also disturbs me somewhat, in that if RE sales were making money, even borderline money, they would not be doing these sales. I really feel RE is a slowly failing platform. Even propellerhead have completely slowed down with their own releases.. Heck by now i thought we would have ALOT more than just A list guitars.. I expected a lot more acoustic instruments. Its like they are in a desperate hurry to "sell as much as possible" of the "current stock".

In all my years of using music plugins, since 1997, I have never ever seen such fluctuation and such "insane" sales that propellerhead are doing. Never. I see sales, 50% at max, and also not THAT frequently, but it seems propellerhead are doing something new here every week. And at new unprecedented percentages (besides waves, who are the only other that do this - so propellerhead and waves are exclusively the only 2 major developers in the audio world with this sale behaviour).

You want to really know plugin related financial pain? I got back into reason just 13 months ago. If i had waited a few months, i could have had every single RE i have in my arsenal right now, and MORE (due to bundles), and have $3,500 left over in the bank. You read that right. Just a tiny bit of wait time is all it would have been. Heck, at the time I thought I was privileged to buy Reason and get the bass and drum refills for free. Not in my WILDEST DREAMS did i EVER think that this extreme situation would happen with prices.. Cause i knew there were sales, but i follow the patterns.. and not even the best bayesian filter could have ever predicted that propellerhead would pull a move like this.

I have followed patterns of all plug in devs for 15 years at least, and they are all predictable. Fab filter do 25% twice a year on bundles only, Lexicon do 50% once a year, Softube ditto (and always one extra sale, say just reverbs, or just compressors, in addition to the 50%), McDsp twice yearly 50% (except of course RE's which they discounted way more than 50% lol), Kuassa 25%, Valhalla never, U-he intro only and then never again, and so on and so on.

To end this post, I will say I have been in contact with a few devs, and not one of them is especially pleased with what's going on. They are private emails and under no circumstances will I even hint at names, so kindly please don't ask, but I am telling you the truth. The latest indi dev I just spoke to said it flawlessly - better than I ever could. They basically said that as a dev they weren't happy with the props pricing structure, and the discounts are destroying the value and actual SALES of RE's (just like I always thought). And that there is no way it will work in the long run. There are very few successful indi devs that make a solid living off just plugins. U-HE is one of the few.. Guess what, he has a small catalog of quality products, he ALLOWS resale, he NEVER has sales after a one off intro price, and he has a thriving business. ReFX do $100 off nexus ONCE A YEAR, and have made MILLIONS of dollars. They are rock solid through their pricing the entire year except for 30 days at Xmas. And there is just four of them. Yep, I stick to my guns, propellerheads are shooting themselves in the foot. Oh by the way, sorry to add more, but they are also one of only VERY few developers of audio software and plugins, in the WORLD, that do not allow resale of their plugins. Go figure.

[Theo.M]

By the way, I would also like to say to any developers reading this, and indeed propellerheads, you have lost me as a customer in general, due to propellerhead's pricing structure. I am saying this, even if i am only one in an ocean, to at least tell you honestly, as one customer, that I will never buy your products at full price again, unfortunately. I would be happy to buy at full price if I really wanted something, and knew at best, you would only offer an irregular discount, of a not unreasonable amount (in other words, 20%, not 50%).
But now, I will follow patterns. I will watch your first sale, and so forth.. and then wait till your product (if i want it of course), is either in a rig bundle with products I don't already have (If i already have even one in the bundle, then i won't bite, unless props offer a complete my bundle option one day), OR, until it is at absolute minimum at 50 or 60% discount. This is what it has all come to and I find that very unfortunate for all, if anyone else now thinks as I do (cause it's actually really sad).

The only exceptions to this rule will be developers who either promise they won't be included in rig bundles, OR, that promise to never have sales, OR, promise to only have sales at a certain maximum threshold so I can decide whether it's worth the wait.

So if you are one of those developers, who actually feels as I do about the matter, and want to keep your pricing stable, this is the time to speak up. I can guarantee you, that you will receive my absolute utmost priority and loyalty as a customer, when you have a product I would truly like in my arsenal. I am not sure if other's will, or if anyone even agrees with me, and I am not sure I am important at all as just one person - BUT - the opportunity is here to speak up as a dev, right now, if you can say with confidence your pricing will have stability. Thank you for your consideration.

Thank you to those developers who have kindly answered my emails regarding this matter, and who have made me feel more comfortable purchasing. Best to you.

To FXPansion: I emailed you as an owner of ALL your products except for BFD(but I do have eco), asking for a crossgrade to the RE versions. After a couple of emails back and forth, you absolutely insisted that you could not offer me a crossgrade discount of even 30%, as propellerhead would charge you commission on the full price of the product. Therefore, If i bought a $49 product from you at a crossgrade of $34.30 (30% discount), propellerhead would have charged you $14.70 in commission (30% of $49). The result is, that you would have made $19.60 for every $49 I spent on your products. You assured me this just wasn't feasible, so I bought all your products at full price. The total I spent on your products was $168. Therefore minus 30%, your take was $117.60. Had you given me a 30% crossgrade price, i would have paid $117.60, and you would have made $67.20.
TWO WEEKS LATER, after our email and your assurance a crossgrade couldn't be done, you discounted your entire range of products at 50%. Therefore the total to buy all your products became just $84, and after propellerhead's 30%, or $25.20, your take would have been $55.80.
THANKYOU SO MUCH, Fxpansion, for not offering me, a loyal customer that had spent hundreds and hundreds if not more than a thousand dollars on your products, a crossgrade, that would have netted you $67.20, and absolutely ASSURING ME it was not financially viable - but then offering the products to everyone else in a sale that for the same amount of product, would have netted you $55.80 cents - LESS than the crossgrade I asked for that would have assured me as a loyal customer. Thanks again, I am sure you can see, how I will always trust you and want to do business with you again. Thanks for needlessly being dishonest, and depriving me of $84, because I actually TRUSTED you. Never again. Fool me once, shame on me, Fool me twice - NUP.