Re: Zero Latency Devices / Latency List
Posted: 11 Dec 2015
Zero latency is a marketing phrase. There will always be latency with a computer.
What is really meant: zero *relative* latency.kitekrazy wrote:Zero latency is a marketing phrase. There will always be latency with a computer.
Technically yes, BUT (and this is HUGE) when that processing latency is less than the sample rate, there will be NO latency IN THE AUDIO PATH - this is what is important for audio processing.kitekrazy wrote:Zero latency is a marketing phrase. There will always be latency with a computer.
Actually its more of a data throughput issue than a computing issue, a USB bus can only transfer data so fast, memory can only copy data so fast.. There is DSP systems that actually work sample by sample or even bit by bit, without any latency, so its not really inherent with "digital" (if the OPs use of "computer" implied this). That said, audio in itself is tied to timeselig wrote:Technically yes, BUT (and this is HUGE) when that processing latency is less than the sample rate, there will be NO latency IN THE AUDIO PATH - this is what is important for audio processing.
Remember that computers process data at a rate MANY times faster than the audio sample rate, measured in GIGAHERTZ rather than kilohertz, which means they can make MANY calculations long before the audio path needs to see the next sample.
Hopefully I've explained this correctly - if not someone please correct me!
Possibly wrongly, I was assuming audio already in the digital domain - obviously getting analog audio in and out of a digital system DOES induce some amount of latency. But my point was related to how an internal process such as a plugin can be "zero latency" within the system.normen wrote:Actually its more of a data throughput issue than a computing issue, a USB bus can only transfer data so fast, memory can only copy data so fast.. There is DSP systems that actually work sample by sample or even bit by bit, without any latency, so its not really inherent with "digital" (if the OPs use of "computer" implied this). That said, audio in itself is tied to timeselig wrote:Technically yes, BUT (and this is HUGE) when that processing latency is less than the sample rate, there will be NO latency IN THE AUDIO PATH - this is what is important for audio processing.
Remember that computers process data at a rate MANY times faster than the audio sample rate, measured in GIGAHERTZ rather than kilohertz, which means they can make MANY calculations long before the audio path needs to see the next sample.
Hopefully I've explained this correctly - if not someone please correct me!
But obviously you're right with the core statement, the "problem" is ADDITIONAL latency, above the buffer size of the system and yes, CPUs are INCREDIBLY fast in terms of computing alone.
lol - thats funnySokpoppet wrote:Better late than never!
Is this still a big issue as Reason has PDC now, I don't think I have issues with it.
Wow! This was a lot of time and effort spent to help this community...THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!thala wrote: ↑21 Jun 2015i got the VMG Sample Delay to Measure some things. after working a while with it, it seems that everybody who is interested in Latencys of a Device should get this, to test the devices everytime u need a latency compensation with that actual settings of that device.
but here is a small overview of the Devices i bought + that ones in "trial".
THIS LIST IS ONLY A FIRST TRY. WOULD BE NICE IF SOMEONE ELSE COULD CONFIRM THESE LIST.
maybe i did something wrong?
Sample Rate 44,1kHz
The Effect Section:
Pulverizer 1 Sample
The Echo 0 Sample
Alligator 0 Sample
Scream4 0-32 Samples (depends on settings)
Vocoder B512 (variable depending on Amount of Bands, first Sample-test up to 50+ Samples, Second Test down to 1 Sample... wierd)
RV7000mk1 0 Samples on Original Signal
Neptune 325 Samples (Live Mode, no "Low Freq") up to 1842 Samples (No Live Mode, Low Freq on)
Line6 Guitar Amp 71 Samples on init
Line6 Bass Amp 30 Samples on init
MClass EQ 0 Samples
MClass Comp 0 Samples
MClass Maximizer 0 Samples without lookahead
MClass Stereo Imager 0 Samples
RV7 0 Samples
DDL1 0 Samples
D11 Foldback 0 Samples
ECF 0-35 Samples (depends on Mode and Cutoff Setting)
CF-101 Chorus/Flanger 0 Samples (Send mode off)
PH90 Phaser 0 Samples
UN16 0 Samples
Comp01 0 Samples
PEQ-2 0 Samples
Audiomatic 0-xxx (depends on setting) (Preset "Cracked" 2-35 on wet)
Polar 1154-5129 Samples
Rotor 0 Samples on Dry
Softube Amp 26+ Samples
Softube Bass Amp 4-xx Samples (Amp bypass has higher latency than with amp...)
Synchronous 0 Samples
Blamsoft DC-9 3 Samples
Blamsoft Resampler 0 Samples on Dry
DCam Env Shaper 3-4 Samples on Dry
Etch Red 3 Samples on init
G-Clip 0 Samples without oversampling (with OS 2-3 Samples)
Ozone 262-3004 Samples
Chenille 0 Samples
Titus 0 Samples
Black Knight 0 on Parametric Mode, 1 Sample on Grphic Mode
Neutron 0 Samples on Dry
Futzbox Filters, Distortion and Noize 0 Samples. Gate 11 Samples, Sim depends on Sim
Carve 0 Samples
Glitch 64 Samples
Repeat Looper 0 Samples
Buffre 0 Samples
3Plex 0 Samples
RE 200 Bass Enhancer 0 Samples
RE 202 Exciter 0 Samples
Selig Gain 0 Samples
Selig Leveler 0 Samples
Saturation Knob 3-4 Samples
Spring Reverb 0 Samples
Tube Delay 7 Samples on Dry
Dynamite 3 Samples
Bitspeak not possible to measure
Echobode 0 Samples on Dry
GSX 66 Samples with Limiter, 0 Samples without Limiter
SB Filter Pattern 0 Samples on Dry
SB Slice Arranger 0 Samples on Dry
Synapse Fat Space 0 Samples
Synapse GQ-7 0 Samples , even with automatic Gain on!
Synapse 90 Vintage Phaser 0 Samples
Mr. Overdrive 0 Samples
T2 Phaser 0 Samples
UHBIK-A 0 Samples on Dry
G8 Gate 0 Samples with 0ms Lookahead and "flip" on, flip off =25 Samples
Yoko Band Splitter 1-8 Samples (depends on Slope)
Hilfsgeräte:
Combinator 0 Samples
Audio Splitter 0 Samples
Mixer 14:2 0 Samples
Line Mixer 6:2 0 Samples
Polymodular Audio Splitter 0 Samples
Polymodular Audio Merger 0 Samples
Morfin Crossfader 0 Samples
Executioner DJ Mixer 0 Samples
Skope 0 Samples
Skope M4 0 Samples
VMG Sample Delay 0 Samples
A/B Switch 0 Samples
RE181 M/S Audio Converter not possible to measure
CMD:Education 0 Samples
Scope Jr. 0 Samples
Instruments: (using audio in)
Kong:
Kompressor 0 Samples
Filter LP=1+ Samples / BP and Highpass=0+ Samples (depends on cutoff)
Overdrive/Resonator 0-30 Samples
Parametric EQ 0 Samples
Rattler 0 Samples
Ringmodulator 0 Samples
DrumRoom Reverb 0 Samples
TapeEcho 0 Samples
Transient Shaper 0 Samples
Thor Audio in > Audio out (via modmatrix) 0 Samples
Malström 0 Samples
Parsec not possible (used audio in and gave a gate on via matrix...)
Punch BD 0 Samples
Antidote not possible to measure ... tested on left chanel, even with all effects on bypass or everything dry (setup was correctly, retested with audio)
the instrument section is a hell of a job... canceled
I guess because a) It's only compensated between mixer channels, not in combinators or anywhere else and b) many people use Reason to play instruments livejimmyklane wrote: ↑17 Jun 2018Here’s a question: since Reason has delay compensation now, why do we “care” about latency?
Ok, that’s reasonable. Thanks for answering me!normen wrote: ↑17 Jun 2018I guess because a) It's only compensated between mixer channels, not in combinators or anywhere else and b) many people use Reason to play instruments livejimmyklane wrote: ↑17 Jun 2018Here’s a question: since Reason has delay compensation now, why do we “care” about latency?
It depends on what you are doing and your interface/soundcard.