Zero Latency Devices / Latency List

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kitekrazy
Posts: 667
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 11 Dec 2015

Zero latency is a marketing phrase. There will always be latency with a computer.

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tronam
Posts: 258
Joined: 04 Mar 2015

Post 11 Dec 2015

kitekrazy wrote:Zero latency is a marketing phrase. There will always be latency with a computer.
What is really meant: zero *relative* latency.
MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017) / 2.9 GHz Intel QuadCore i7 (7820HQ) / macOS Sierra 10.12.6

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Sokpoppet
Posts: 13
Joined: 12 Dec 2015

Post 12 Dec 2015

Better late than never!

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selig
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Post 27 May 2016

kitekrazy wrote:Zero latency is a marketing phrase. There will always be latency with a computer.
Technically yes, BUT (and this is HUGE) when that processing latency is less than the sample rate, there will be NO latency IN THE AUDIO PATH - this is what is important for audio processing.

Remember that computers process data at a rate MANY times faster than the audio sample rate, measured in GIGAHERTZ rather than kilohertz, which means they can make MANY calculations long before the audio path needs to see the next sample.

Hopefully I've explained this correctly - if not someone please correct me!
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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normen
Posts: 3429
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 27 May 2016

selig wrote:Technically yes, BUT (and this is HUGE) when that processing latency is less than the sample rate, there will be NO latency IN THE AUDIO PATH - this is what is important for audio processing.

Remember that computers process data at a rate MANY times faster than the audio sample rate, measured in GIGAHERTZ rather than kilohertz, which means they can make MANY calculations long before the audio path needs to see the next sample.

Hopefully I've explained this correctly - if not someone please correct me!
:)
Actually its more of a data throughput issue than a computing issue, a USB bus can only transfer data so fast, memory can only copy data so fast.. There is DSP systems that actually work sample by sample or even bit by bit, without any latency, so its not really inherent with "digital" (if the OPs use of "computer" implied this). That said, audio in itself is tied to time :)

But obviously you're right with the core statement, the "problem" is ADDITIONAL latency, above the buffer size of the system and yes, CPUs are INCREDIBLY fast in terms of computing alone.

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selig
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Post 27 May 2016

normen wrote:
selig wrote:Technically yes, BUT (and this is HUGE) when that processing latency is less than the sample rate, there will be NO latency IN THE AUDIO PATH - this is what is important for audio processing.

Remember that computers process data at a rate MANY times faster than the audio sample rate, measured in GIGAHERTZ rather than kilohertz, which means they can make MANY calculations long before the audio path needs to see the next sample.

Hopefully I've explained this correctly - if not someone please correct me!
:)
Actually its more of a data throughput issue than a computing issue, a USB bus can only transfer data so fast, memory can only copy data so fast.. There is DSP systems that actually work sample by sample or even bit by bit, without any latency, so its not really inherent with "digital" (if the OPs use of "computer" implied this). That said, audio in itself is tied to time :)

But obviously you're right with the core statement, the "problem" is ADDITIONAL latency, above the buffer size of the system and yes, CPUs are INCREDIBLY fast in terms of computing alone.
Possibly wrongly, I was assuming audio already in the digital domain - obviously getting analog audio in and out of a digital system DOES induce some amount of latency. But my point was related to how an internal process such as a plugin can be "zero latency" within the system.
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

Chrisdude
Posts: 3
Joined: 06 Oct 2016

Post 07 Oct 2016

OK - Hi everyone

Can someone please explain how and when to use this,, to a complete newbie! - In practical terms: say i used drums with kong put a synth line down with the stock plugs (should still all be zero lat) THEN I decide to use bass guitar or lead guitar using kussa rack extensions:

Once you know the latency time in milliseconds what do you do? do you go to preferences and change something there? so confused about this. Im luckily got a UAD Apollo 8p so vox coming in should be zero latency! and my studio monitors are zero latency as I'm mixing through an external analog desk. Just confused because I've never adjusted anything in terms of latency settings (wherever that is)

Chrisdude
Posts: 3
Joined: 06 Oct 2016

Post 07 Oct 2016

Sokpoppet wrote:Better late than never!
lol - thats funny

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jam-s
Posts: 474
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 07 Oct 2016

@Chrisdude: Unless you do use parallel processing (e.g. via parallel mix channels) the minimal latency differences don't really do anything bad, so don't have to care about this. But when you do use an RE with latency on a parallel mixer channel and you notice a comb filter like sound, then you've got a problem, where you should compensate for the latency introduced by the RE (unless you actually like the sound of the comb filter fx).
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace.

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NicolaAlexandraHajdu
Posts: 32
Joined: 18 Oct 2016
Location: Vienna - Austria

Post 18 Oct 2016

I agree with jam-s. It depends on what kind of Music style we are in and what we want to achieve exactly. The first time when a latency problem bothered me was with Polar while recording a melody. Knowing this i figured i could use a) Normen's device or b) just play the sequence dry and then add the particular effect after the recording session. The whole process with Music creation requires flexibility and workaround anyway.

dana
Posts: 335
Joined: 29 Apr 2015

Post 02 Nov 2017

Even when delay compensation is on, sometimes the plugin still creates a delay due to the nature of the effect.

Thats why TS-1 is great for realigning :)

jlgrimes
Posts: 271
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

Post 17 Jun 2018

thala wrote:
20 Jun 2015
Hello,
is there somewhere a list of Zero Latency Effect Devices (Stock and RE)?
or is there a list, how many latency any Device has?
Thanks a lot
Oliver
Is this still a big issue as Reason has PDC now, I don't think I have issues with it.

I guess if you are doing live audio or weird routing it can still be an issue though.

jimmyklane
Posts: 737
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

Post 17 Jun 2018

thala wrote:
21 Jun 2015
i got the VMG Sample Delay to Measure some things. after working a while with it, it seems that everybody who is interested in Latencys of a Device should get this, to test the devices everytime u need a latency compensation with that actual settings of that device.

but here is a small overview of the Devices i bought + that ones in "trial".

THIS LIST IS ONLY A FIRST TRY. WOULD BE NICE IF SOMEONE ELSE COULD CONFIRM THESE LIST.
maybe i did something wrong?
Sample Rate 44,1kHz

The Effect Section:
Pulverizer 1 Sample
The Echo 0 Sample
Alligator 0 Sample
Scream4  0-32 Samples (depends on settings)
Vocoder B512 (variable depending on Amount of Bands, first Sample-test up to 50+ Samples, Second Test down to 1 Sample... wierd)
RV7000mk1  0 Samples on Original Signal
Neptune 325 Samples (Live Mode, no "Low Freq") up  to 1842 Samples (No Live Mode, Low Freq on)
Line6 Guitar Amp 71 Samples on init
Line6 Bass Amp 30 Samples on init
MClass EQ  0 Samples
MClass Comp 0 Samples
MClass Maximizer 0 Samples without lookahead
MClass Stereo Imager 0 Samples
RV7 0 Samples
DDL1 0 Samples
D11 Foldback 0 Samples
ECF 0-35 Samples (depends on Mode and Cutoff Setting)
CF-101 Chorus/Flanger 0 Samples (Send mode off)
PH90 Phaser 0 Samples
UN16 0 Samples
Comp01 0 Samples
PEQ-2 0 Samples
Audiomatic 0-xxx (depends on setting) (Preset "Cracked" 2-35 on wet)
Polar 1154-5129 Samples
Rotor 0 Samples on Dry
Softube Amp 26+ Samples
Softube Bass Amp 4-xx Samples (Amp bypass has higher latency than with amp...)
Synchronous 0 Samples
Blamsoft DC-9 3 Samples
Blamsoft Resampler 0 Samples on Dry
DCam Env Shaper 3-4 Samples on Dry
Etch Red 3 Samples on init
G-Clip 0 Samples without oversampling (with OS 2-3 Samples)
Ozone 262-3004 Samples
Chenille 0 Samples
Titus 0 Samples
Black Knight  0 on Parametric Mode, 1 Sample on Grphic Mode
Neutron 0 Samples on Dry
Futzbox Filters, Distortion and Noize 0 Samples. Gate 11 Samples, Sim depends on Sim
Carve 0 Samples
Glitch 64 Samples
Repeat Looper 0 Samples
Buffre 0 Samples
3Plex 0 Samples
RE 200 Bass Enhancer 0 Samples
RE 202 Exciter 0 Samples
Selig Gain 0 Samples
Selig Leveler 0 Samples
Saturation Knob 3-4 Samples
Spring Reverb 0 Samples
Tube Delay 7 Samples on Dry
Dynamite 3 Samples
Bitspeak not possible to measure
Echobode 0 Samples on Dry
GSX 66 Samples with Limiter, 0 Samples without Limiter
SB Filter Pattern 0 Samples on Dry
SB Slice Arranger 0 Samples on Dry
Synapse Fat Space 0 Samples
Synapse GQ-7 0 Samples , even with automatic Gain on!
Synapse 90 Vintage Phaser 0 Samples
Mr. Overdrive 0 Samples
T2 Phaser 0 Samples
UHBIK-A 0 Samples on Dry
G8 Gate 0 Samples with 0ms Lookahead and "flip" on, flip off =25 Samples
Yoko Band Splitter 1-8 Samples (depends on Slope)

Hilfsgeräte:
Combinator 0 Samples
Audio Splitter 0 Samples
Mixer 14:2 0 Samples
Line Mixer 6:2 0 Samples
Polymodular Audio Splitter 0 Samples
Polymodular Audio Merger 0 Samples
Morfin Crossfader 0 Samples
Executioner DJ Mixer 0 Samples
Skope 0 Samples
Skope M4 0 Samples
VMG Sample Delay 0 Samples :)
A/B Switch 0 Samples
RE181 M/S Audio Converter not possible to measure
CMD:Education 0 Samples
Scope Jr. 0 Samples


Instruments: (using audio in)
Kong:
Kompressor 0 Samples
Filter LP=1+ Samples / BP and Highpass=0+ Samples (depends on cutoff)
Overdrive/Resonator 0-30 Samples
Parametric EQ 0 Samples
Rattler 0 Samples
Ringmodulator 0 Samples
DrumRoom Reverb 0 Samples
TapeEcho 0 Samples
Transient Shaper 0 Samples

Thor Audio in > Audio out (via modmatrix) 0 Samples
Malström 0 Samples
Parsec  not possible (used audio in and gave a gate on via matrix...)
Punch BD 0 Samples
Antidote not possible to measure ... tested on left chanel, even with all effects on bypass or everything dry (setup was correctly, retested with audio)

the instrument section is a hell of a job... canceled
Wow! This was a lot of time and effort spent to help this community...THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! :thumbs_up:

Here’s a question: since Reason has delay compensation now, why do we “care” about latency? I’m not trolling, this is a serious question. The most annoying part of Reason for me isn’t plug-in latency at all, but the inconsistent and incorrect timing of the EMI.

I’m going to start a thread about this issue, but wanted to thank you for the effort and ask why latency is important with delay compensation enabled in Reason.
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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normen
Posts: 3429
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
17 Jun 2018
Here’s a question: since Reason has delay compensation now, why do we “care” about latency?
I guess because a) It's only compensated between mixer channels, not in combinators or anywhere else and b) many people use Reason to play instruments live

jimmyklane
Posts: 737
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

Post 17 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
17 Jun 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
17 Jun 2018
Here’s a question: since Reason has delay compensation now, why do we “care” about latency?
I guess because a) It's only compensated between mixer channels, not in combinators or anywhere else and b) many people use Reason to play instruments live
Ok, that’s reasonable. Thanks for answering me!
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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