Where to put Ozone Maximizer exactly

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Jmax
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Post 23 May 2015

I recently purchased the Ozone maximizer but wondering exactly where it should go.
Does it need to go right into the master in/out (pic1) or does it go into the master FX.
I'm also trying to use it with the Stereo Splitter Re.  Again I plugged in the maximizer to the master FX and seems to be working.  Do I have this setup correctly? Thanks
:s0536:


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Tincture
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Post 23 May 2015

I put mine between the master outs (control room outs in my case) and the very top audio bus (which most people just use the 1 & 2 inputs of. Read the ozone vst manual and it'll make sense.

Dan Topic
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Post 23 May 2015


I made my own Mid-Side / Ozone / Two Compressors / Dynamic driver / Dynamic EQ / Spectrum analyzer / Loudness meter patch and inserted it into Master section:
Image 

Works well for me.
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dana
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Post 23 May 2015

out it last in your chain of effects, but put any dynamic range meters directly after it.  In the master inserts is fine, thats where i use it mostly.

Sometimes i don't use ozone and i just use reason's maximizer on every mix channel, then its all loud but theres loads of dynamics (change the attack to slow it sounds much better).

For ozone, put speed to fast and you can get louder volume without it sounding too ducky / pumpy.


Jmax
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Post 23 May 2015

Very nice setup.  I downloaded the Ozone's PDF but still not exactly sure where it's suppose to go.  Weather in Main mixer FX or direct into the in/out of mixer.  Or Ctrl out.  Will play around but would love some more suggestions or pics.

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pjeudy
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Post 23 May 2015

Dan Topic wrote: I made my own Mid-Side / Ozone / Two Compressors / Dynamic driver / Dynamic EQ / Spectrum analyzer / Loudness meter patch and inserted it into Master section:
Image 

Works well for me.
the Maximizer is at the top of your Mstr Chain? Or you just have it set up like that visually?
My opinion is that Propellerhead REASON needs a complete rewrite!
P.S: people should stop saying "No it won't happen" when referring to a complete rewrite of REASON. I have 3 letters for ya....VST
Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:53 pm

Dan Topic
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Post 23 May 2015


Here's the rear view:
Image 

First, the signal goes to Quadelectra Stereo splitter where it's splitted to Mid and Side. Both signals then go through D.Cam Bus Compressors into 6:2 Line mixer. From there it's routed to Real time spectrum analyzer which analyzes the sound and I picked some frequencies (e.g. 60Hz for the kick and bass and some higher frequencies which I want to sound more present) and routed them to Dynamic driver which works like compressor except it triggers Dynamic EQ to pump up only demanded frequencies when they appear. Finally from the EQ the signal goes to Ozone maximizer as a last device in the chain. Flower audio loudness meter is after the Ozone but actually does nothing with the signal but measures it.
Perhaps not perfect but it improves my overall sound significantly. Still tweaking it. 
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Tincture
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Post 23 May 2015

To be clear, just make sure it's the LAST thing that affects any audio signal.

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ScuzzyEye
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Post 23 May 2015

Tincture wrote:To be clear, just make sure it's the LAST thing that affects any audio signal.
This includes the master volume control, so it should outside of the master insert area. Jmax has it right. With Dan's setup, unless the master volume is set to -0 dB, Ozone may not be able to deliver what you're asking.

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pjeudy
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Post 23 May 2015

Dan Topic wrote: Here's the rear view:

 

First, the signal goes to Quadelectra Stereo splitter where it's splitted to Mid and Side. Both signals then go through D.Cam Bus Compressors into 6:2 Line mixer. From there it's routed to Real time spectrum analyzer which analyzes the sound and I picked some frequencies (e.g. 60Hz for the kick and bass and some higher frequencies which I want to sound more present) and routed them to Dynamic driver which works like compressor except it triggers Dynamic EQ to pump up only demanded frequencies when they appear. Finally from the EQ the signal goes to Ozone maximizer as a last device in the chain. Flower audio loudness meter is after the Ozone but actually does nothing with the signal but measures it.
Perhaps not perfect but it improves my overall sound significantly. Still tweaking it. 
That was the question I was asking...you only have it on top as a visual...but it's actually the last device in the chain..like it should be ! I think your good to go !
My opinion is that Propellerhead REASON needs a complete rewrite!
P.S: people should stop saying "No it won't happen" when referring to a complete rewrite of REASON. I have 3 letters for ya....VST
Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:53 pm

Jmax
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Post 23 May 2015

Is it still possible to get clipping with the Ozone on? say on certain instruments that might affect the master more.  I notice if I raise all instruments to there max volume I get lots of clipping on the master.  With the ozone on at 0 Threshold.  This is normal right?


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Tincture
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Post 23 May 2015

Jmax wrote:Is it still possible to get clipping with the Ozone on? say on certain instruments that might affect the master more.  I notice if I raise all instruments to there max volume I get lots of clipping on the master.  With the ozone on at 0 Threshold.  This is normal right?
If you are using Ozone on the Master (2 Bus - L & R) then no you shouldn't get any clipping. If you are using Ozone on individual instruments (not advisable due to latency [delay]) then yes, you could still get clipping... Also maybe try setting the Threshold at -0.1dB... with fast settings... shouldn't be a prob tho'

Jmax
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Post 23 May 2015

Yes it looks like when I had the Stereo Splitter coming into the Master FX Chanels and the Ozone in the main Bus I would still get clipping for some reason.  But seems to be working without the Stereo Splitter.  Not sure the way around that one or how the two directly effect each other.  I could try a setup like Dan eventually.

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Tincture
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Post 23 May 2015

I pointed out one error in Stereo Splitter at least a year ago... haven't really used it since.

Besides, it's easy to get hung up on the Mid/Side thing.... it all depends on the song... I used to get disappointed if the side was more (less) than -10-12dB than the Mid soon found songs where it was only -8dB or others where it was -14dB difference or more... Depends on the song :) I haven't done any Mid/Side adjustments for a long while. Maybe it's different if you do one specific genre that needs certain adjustments... not for me tho' :)

Jmax
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Post 23 May 2015

Yeah to be honest I don't notice much of a difference with Stereo Splitter on and actually find the audio much more clear without it.  I just thought it must have this magical quality to it because it 'splits the audio'. Also levels seemed off in places and a little muddy. 

One other thing I noticed testing out Ozone when I drop an audio clip in say one that's fairy loud, it well clip the master with Ozone on.  Have you tested this?. I just clips a bit but still clips noticeably.  Interestingly I can move the threshold up all the way and the clipping remains at the same level so that's good.  Of course the key is to just bring the master down a bit say 1.5 or bring the channel down.  With midi though the sky is the limit and no clipping.  Wondered if anyone else experienced this with audio clips brought in.

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ScuzzyEye
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Post 23 May 2015

Jmax wrote:With the ozone on at 0 Threshold.  This is normal right?
Tincture wrote: Also maybe try setting the Threshold at -0.1dB... with fast settings... shouldn't be a prob tho'
That's indeed the problem, and why the default is -0.1 dB. It shouldn't turn on the clip light there.*


*It may still clip in the analog domain, the inter-sample signal can still go above clipping once it is reconstructed. Fortunately Ozone has a feature to prevent that too (but it is really CPU heavy, so leave it off until export).

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joeyluck
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Post 24 May 2015

You can also use some of the Reason FSB master insert Combis as guides.

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Tincture
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Post 24 May 2015

Ok, to try and answer both... Scuzzy, I set my threshold at -0.5dB with intersample limiting on... they say you should go the whole hog at -1dB but no-one's playing my CDs yet ;)

Jmax: your posts seem unclear to my muddy mind ;) What do you mean by clipping? The Red Clip LED going on I hope? Not just that you are getting some peak reduction by lowering the threshold?

I'm not the expert here, Selig is, maybe search some of his posts or tutorials... Mix aiming for -12dB peak individually... etc. I know nothing but Selig (Giles) does :) You'll be amazed what a difference it can make when you're not pissing in the dark ;)

Jmax
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Post 24 May 2015

Yes my apologies :) meant the master red clip LED.  It seems to only be effected when audio clips are dropped in (fairly loud ones).  The master only clips a bit up to about +1 or 2 I think.  I believe it's the same deal with intersample on.  Is it an analog thing with the samples perhaps? It's all fixed by bringing down the levels of course.  I just figured there should be no clipping whatsoever.  There's no clipping with the midi at all it just seems to be the audio clips seem to be imune slightly. Just a question of bringing down the sample volume slightly and master a touch perhaps.


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ScuzzyEye
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Post 24 May 2015

Jmax wrote:Yes my apologies :) meant the master red clip LED.  It seems to only be effected when audio clips are dropped in (fairly loud ones).  The master only clips a bit up to about +1 or 2 I think.  I believe it's the same deal with intersample on.  Is it an analog thing with the samples perhaps? It's all fixed by bringing down the levels of course.  I just figured there should be no clipping whatsoever.  There's no clipping with the midi at all it just seems to be the audio clips seem to be imune slightly. Just a question of bringing down the sample volume slightly and master a touch perhaps.
The clip light comes on when there are 3 or more samples in a row at 0 dBfs. This is happening at the point where the floating point values are being converted to integers. So there can't be any samples above 0 dBfs. So there's no way to tell what's happening. You could have just gotten really unlucky and been on the top of a full volume square wave, and there wasn't really any clipping that was going to happen. But again, with integers there's no way to tell the difference. So the assumption is made if there are 3 samples at the max integer value in a row, that the signal must have been clipped.

If you tell Ozone to allow samples up to 0 dB, then they are going to happen. If you're loading already mastered waves, or anything with a lot of compression, it's likely there's going to be a pattern of 3, 0 dB samples in there somewhere, especially if you turn one of those up some more.

But if you tell Ozone to set the absolute upper margin to -0.1 dB, then you're not going to get 3, or even 1, 0 dB sample emitted, and thus no light.


And yeah, the actual, recommended margin for submitting mastered tracks is -1 dB.

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Tincture
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Post 24 May 2015

If you have ozone in the right place and everything going through it you should never see the clip light come on. Audio clips or midi input synths shouldn't make any difference. Maybe you could post (attach) a .reason file ... ? Might help explain things? Gotta s''eep now tho' it's daylight here.

Jmax
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Post 24 May 2015

Still getting the clipping on the master with the wav files.

Attached my template with the ozone and drag in the wav file and you should get a bit of clipping on the master?

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eXode
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Post 24 May 2015

I use it like you showed in your first post.

Regarding clipping, look at the actual audio output at the very top, not at the master section since you've put it after the master output. Unless you use it as a master insert of course.

It may show clipping on the master out, but if it doesn't show it on the actual Audio Output 1+2 (or whatever you're using) you're good.

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ScuzzyEye
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Post 24 May 2015

Jmax wrote:Still getting the clipping on the master with the wav files.

Attached my template with the ozone and drag in the wav file and you should get a bit of clipping on the master?
I tried your files, the clip indicator isn't coming on.

Are you sure you're seeing the clip indicator, and not just the peak indicator? When Reason clips the output, you have to use the reset button to clear the clip indicator. Is that what's happening, or does the red you're seeing go away after a few seconds?

Jmax
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Post 24 May 2015

This is what I'm seeing..
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