Warm saturation in Reason: Pulveriser versus Revival

[Marco Raaphorst]

The Revival preamp is the most analog sounding saturation unit for Reason users. Super round sounding. Here's my test, Revival versus Pulveriser. Explaining the difference between good and bad saturation:
http://melodiefabriek.com/blog/saturati ... r-revival/

[PinkSlime]

very nice and informative article. your taste in sound as well are musical references are very close to home! thumbs up!

[jfrichards]

Great blog discussion, Marco.  I also find that the harmonic structure is important for emphasizing melodies.  It's a big reason I love Strats and Fender tube amps.  One issue in the discussion is terminology.  The term "second harmonic" is a little confusing.  Technically, second harmonic means the octave, not the fifth.  Here's the article in Wikipedia about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic
Here's a screenshot of the opening section if you don't want to go to another webpage:
 

I haven't done any scientific research into why the second harmonic, or the octave, has such a big effect on the listener's perception of a melody, but I think it has to do with the extra emphasis on the note itself, almost like adding volume, and probably adding a vibratory intensity in the inner ear that rivets the brain's attention to the note.  It may even go deep into human psyche, where association with the higher octave brings up primordial feelings related to hearing your mother speak or signals of danger or excitement in the family.  Whatever the physiological and psychological components, the effect of the second harmonic is deep with a lot of people.  I also think the second harmonic plays a role in simplifying the listener's perception of the song, by emphasizing the fundamental, making it easier to remember or connect with the song.

[Marco Raaphorst]

Thanks a lot. I will change the naming to 1st overtone etc. 

As for frequencies:
- octaves will make the fundamental tone, the root, sound stronger, brighter
- the fifth is the basis of our harmony system with a ration of 3 to 2 when compared to the root note (660 hz for the fifth compared to the 440 hz of the root)

[FGL]

Revival is something like a secret weapon in Reason.

[Marco Raaphorst]

Revival is something like a secret weapon in Reason.

Yes it is. Mind blowing synth it is. Highly original, organic, dirty. A machine, a beast.

[lowpryo]

awesome job! though I would have loved for you to include the Scream (the Tape & Tube settings in subtle doses are probably my favorite saturation on the default rack, I never reach for the Pulveriser)

[selig]

Remember pulverisr adds odd harmonics below a certain level, then adds t even harmonics above that.
Some issues naturally arise when doing simple tests like this based on the differing responses at different frequencies AND different levels. These devices respond non-linearly with respect to level and that can be quite difficult to portray accurately.

[Marco Raaphorst]

Remember pulverisr adds odd harmonics below a certain level, then adds t even harmonics above that. Some issues naturally arise when doing simple tests like this based on the differing responses at different frequencies AND different levels. These devices respond non-linearly with respect to level and that can be quite difficult to portray accurately.

Yes, the Pulveriser Drive at 50% uses some odd harmonics. The Drive control is not lineair. But it will respond linear to volume imo. And also phase canceling the signal doesn't change anything. The Revival is very lineair too. It just adds lovely even harmonics mostly in the midrange. The Pulverise has way more high end with odd harmonics and aliasing. But the Filter does help.

[Marco Raaphorst]

awesome job! though I would have loved for you to include the Scream (the Tape & Tube settings in subtle doses are probably my favorite saturation on the default rack, I never reach for the Pulveriser)

Thanks. Don't use Scream that often myself. The Echo has some lovely tones. I bypass the echo using the breakout connection.

[zeebot]

I'm sad I never use Revival as much as I should.
When I do use it it blows me away but I find it so tricky to play with.
Would love some more tutorial vids.
There is an excellent in depth one on youtube but its in french.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S_hO84lkgA

[lowpryo]

I honestly didn't even know you could use Revival only for it's FX. people mention that about Antidote all the time but never bring up Revival. I almost wish they released a cheaper FX/saturation unit now!

[alex]

Great article, cheers!


I like too the revival preamp fx section: for my taste it does a very good job in parallel mode by putting it as insert on a parallel mixer channel.
On acoustic drums tracks the "gold" preset gives to me that clarity and presence on the mids range which is really pleasant! Plus the tone knob helps a lot when you need to find the right spot of frequencies. IIRC I just have to compensate 1 or 2 sample IIRC with VMG-01 on the original track when using "red" and "brown" preset.

EDIT: uhm... now, thinking about it ... I should make a combinator InsertFX with revival, vmg-01 and morfin XF crossfader which acts as dry wet control with mapped drive, tone and latency comp controls on the front panel...  Well, if I end up with something useful I'll share it!

[dconana]

Fantastic article! Whenever I read your stuff I get a better insight into the creation of and uses for Reason devices, theres always something to learn.

I didn't know that the FX section could be used on other sources and I am always in search of warm saturation

And it would be cool if they did release this FX section as a Rack device, just for the sake of simplicity and clarity. Bigger knobs etc. (Not that I'm looking to spend even more money!)

I was wondering, would the creation of overtones be useful in helping a Bass guitar become more audible in a mix higher up in the frequency spectrum? (or is my bass amp already doing this?)

And also if I were to use the Preamp section on several sources (i.e.. guitars, bass, vocal) would it start to make things clash, or are the overtones created always based on the source material and would remain musical in a mix?

[Marco Raaphorst]

Last couple of days I have been experimenting with The Echo in comparison a lot also. It has an extremely cool sound Color section. Super warm sounding Tube and Ovdr setting. Dist has more high end and the Limiter is super useful as well. The Echo is probably the best native Reason device for getting that analog warmness. 

The Drive is not linear which is very cool when using the Ovdr setting. Using a sine wave you can get these warm bell like tones. 

The Tube setting of Scream 4 is nice also, but with more high end than The Echo. 

[Marco Raaphorst]

Great article, cheers!


I like too the revival preamp fx section: for my taste it does a very good job in parallel mode by putting it as insert on a parallel mixer channel.
On acoustic drums tracks the "gold" preset gives to me that clarity and presence on the mids range which is really pleasant! Plus the tone knob helps a lot when you need to find the right spot of frequencies. IIRC I just have to compensate 1 or 2 sample IIRC with VMG-01 on the original track when using "red" and "brown" preset.

EDIT: uhm... now, thinking about it ... I should make a combinator InsertFX with revival, vmg-01 and morfin XF crossfader which acts as dry wet control with mapped drive, tone and latency comp controls on the front panel...  Well, if I end up with something useful I'll share it!

Why do you compensate with VMG-01?

I checked out VMG-01 and although it is cool it is calibrated to a certain frequency range. Haven't found which one it is but when using filtering you can get bad results. Filtering = echo = phase shift = kind of latency which can only be judged by ear.

This is also true for my "test". Although it is interesting these things need to be judged by listening. Something stuff that doesn't look right on a spectrum analyser sounds just fantastic. It is a combination of many things. 

[jfrichards]

Nice stuff Marco.  Have you done any comparisons between the three TubeScreamer pedals in Creme (innocuously named A, B, and C)?  I use them quite a bit, on low, medium, and high settings for various needs, from a touch of tube saturation, to all-out death metal, and I like them a lot.

On topic, I use Revival and Pulverizer all the time for saturation, each having a great set of harmonics, both for guitar and drums.  Since I use Vermilion every day, I try the Vermilion gain knob and amp type first and quite often find what I need there (gotta run a low pass between 6 and 10 K for sure).  Scream has always been a bit too much for my analog world (too nasal sounding for my taste).  At your suggestion, I sometimes use the Softube Amp set on Crunch and Room as a starting point, which has great saturation harmonics built in.  I love The Echo saturations also.  That box is a gold mine.

As has been noted many times, the 3K slider on the Trident is magic for electric guitar, and any instrument playing a central role in a song.  i don't use the saturation though, just the slider.

[Marco Raaphorst]

Nice stuff Marco.  Have you done any comparisons between the three TubeScreamer pedals in Creme (innocuously named A, B, and C)?  I use them quite a bit, on low, medium, and high settings for various needs, from a touch of tube saturation, to all-out death metal, and I like them a lot.

On topic, I use Revival and Pulverizer all the time for saturation, each having a great set of harmonics, both for guitar and drums.  Since I use Vermilion every day, I try the Vermilion gain knob and amp type first and quite often find what I need there (gotta run a low pass between 6 and 10 K for sure).  Scream has always been a bit too much for my analog world (too nasal sounding for my taste).  At your suggestion, I sometimes use the Softube Amp set on Crunch and Room as a starting point, which has great saturation harmonics built in.  I love The Echo saturations also.  That box is a gold mine.

As has been noted many times, the 3K slider on the Trident is magic for electric guitar, and any instrument playing a central role in a song.  i don't use the saturation though, just the slider.

I use Creme a bit with the pedals. And I use the Blamsoft DC-9 Overdrive sometimes. Compared it to my own greeny and it sound about 99% the same. The same lack of low end too

Most of the time I don't use much overdrive. It's those mild tones which are the hardest to achieve. Very overdriven tones are very "forgiven". Getting a warm fat mildly overdriven tone is the key for me, with super nice dynamics. 

Kuassa is great but the dynamics of their models are just a bit lacking. Softube has the edge here, but they made a mistake with the low end of all models. But with tweaking we can get a great sound out of all these devices. I am not able to get such a great sound with my old tube amps and Palmer Speaker Simulator PDI-03 which I have used for many years and on many recording sessions. Even on sessions where I could have used Amp Farm in Pro Tools... for example on this album I did back in 2000 for the band Bon: 

[alex]

Why do you compensate with VMG-01?

I checked out VMG-01 and although it is cool it is calibrated to a certain frequency range. Haven't found which one it is but when using filtering you can get bad results. Filtering = echo = phase shift = kind of latency which can only be judged by ear.

This is also true for my "test". Although it is interesting these things need to be judged by listening. Something stuff that doesn't look right on a spectrum analyser sounds just fantastic. It is a combination of many things. 

In the specific case the brown preamp model, gently applied in parallel on a acoustic drum track, reduced a lot the higher frequencies: I was able to get them back by shifting 1 or 2 sample forth the original track through VMG-01.

More in general: if I know that some settings/deivce introduce latency, I just find handy having the VMG-01 in my chain so that if something doesn't "sounds right", I can play with it and see (well, "listen" ) if I can get better results.

Your observation about filtering and phase shifting/kind of latency is interesting: it encourages me to do more "judge by ear" than before but it also makes me want to go deeper on this topic...Food for thought!

[Marco Raaphorst]

Why do you compensate with VMG-01?

I checked out VMG-01 and although it is cool it is calibrated to a certain frequency range. Haven't found which one it is but when using filtering you can get bad results. Filtering = echo = phase shift = kind of latency which can only be judged by ear.

This is also true for my "test". Although it is interesting these things need to be judged by listening. Something stuff that doesn't look right on a spectrum analyser sounds just fantastic. It is a combination of many things. 

In the specific case the brown preamp model, gently applied in parallel on a acoustic drum track, reduced a lot the higher frequencies: I was able to get them back by shifting 1 or 2 sample forth the original track through VMG-01.

More in general: if I know that some settings/deivce introduce latency, I just find handy having the VMG-01 in my chain so that if something doesn't "sounds right", I can play with it and see (well, "listen" ) if I can get better results.

Your observation about filtering and phase shifting/kind of latency is interesting: it encourages me to do more "judge by ear" than before but it also makes me want to go deeper on this topic...Food for thought!

And when running in Parallel, try to use the Phase INV on the channel for the saturated effect, that's my favorite trick. 

With the Pulveriser the VMG-01 will show latency as well but it's not latency, it the range in which the VMG-01 working. Filter/EQ is created from delaying a signal and combining it with the original. 

Yes, always use your ears, of course!

[alex]

And when running in Parallel, try to use the Phase INV on the channel for the saturated effect, that's my favorite trick. 

Right, the Phase INV button... I totally forgot about that!

With the Pulveriser the VMG-01 will show latency as well but it's not latency, it the range in which the VMG-01 working. Filter/EQ is created from delaying a signal and combining it with the original. 

Yes, always use your ears, of course!

Thank you for explaining it so well. Now it makes much more sense!

BTW, I made the combi patch anyway, here's the link if someone is interested:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sj2m6mzatm9ad ... X.cmb?dl=0

It has four knob and one button mapped:

1. Drive -> the drive amount of the revival preamp section
2. Tone -> the tone amount of the revival preamp section
3. Preamp Type -> select between "gold", "red" and "brown"
4. Dry/Wet -> blend the two signal, the original one and the revival processed one

• Latency Comp -> introduce 1 sample of latency comp, engage it only with "red" and "brown" models (i.e. Preamp Type knob values from to 32 to 127)

It requires VMG-01 and Revival REs.
If I have some more time I will do an update version using Thor with phase inversion trick in order to replace VMG-01 and see how it sounds!

Cheers

[kloeckno]

Why do you compensate with VMG-01?

I checked out VMG-01 and although it is cool it is calibrated to a certain frequency range. Haven't found which one it is but when using filtering you can get bad results. Filtering = echo = phase shift = kind of latency which can only be judged by ear.

That is probably because to test the latency, VMG-01 sends out a short pulse and checks how many samples it is delayed. But sometimes filtering or other FX cause the shape of the pulse to be rounded or changed in some other way, so it thinks it's delayed when there's not actually latency.

If there is an option to open the filter all the way up (or down, depending on whether it's a HP or LP), that usually gives a better reading.

[PinkSlime]

although this has been stated before, the saturation knob (RE) works great on most material and is quite handy as you can leave of the high or low end. the malstrom shaper is not that bad either

[Marco Raaphorst]

although this has been stated before, the saturation knob (RE) works great on most material and is quite handy as you can leave of the high or low end. the malstrom shaper is not that bad either

I prefer The Echo over the Saturation Knob. OVDR is king for me. And the Malstrom is very extreme and harsh sound, lacking compression. But it can be useful for sick stuff

[pedrocaetanos]

Have you done any comparisons between the three TubeScreamer pedals in Creme (innocuously named A, B, and C)?  I use them quite a bit, on low, medium, and high settings for various needs, from a touch of tube saturation, to all-out death metal, and I like them a lot.

I asked them: those have been inspired by TubeScreamer, Fulltone OCD, and MI Audio Crunch Box.