The future of Step Note Recorder

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
User avatar
devilfish
Posts: 177
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

Post 12 May 2015

You mean half baked devices for Full Price!
And for every Little new Feature (coming with a new SDK) you have to pay again (ex.: REQ)

I Never ever buy a RE . Got my cubase some weeks ago and my focus is on VST (again)
The Most VSTs have 30 days Demos also, and i can sell them!
Cubase 10 @ Xeon E5-2683v3
Philips Momentum 43“ UHD Monitor,
Behringer UMC1820, ADA8200 & Neutron,
Elektron Digitakt, A4 MK2 & Rytm MK2,
Novation BS2, Moog Subsequent 37,
Vermona Perfourmer MK2, Korg SQ-1

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 5735
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 12 May 2015

devilfish wrote:You mean half baked devices for Full Price!
No, I mean fantastic devices that increase a Reasoner's choice and inpsire to produce.
devilfish wrote:And for every Little new Feature (coming with a new SDK) you have to pay again (ex.: REQ)
So?  I never expect shit to be free in life.  You do?
devilfish wrote:I Never ever buy a RE . Got my cubase some weeks ago and my focus is on VST (again) The Most VSTs have 30 days Demos also, and i can sell them!
That's fantastic; good luck to you.  I also use a shitload of VST, but Reason is much more inspiring to work in for me.   ;)
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 12 May 2015

bxbrkrz wrote: Can you to re trigger the step sequence only when the controller's key is pressed down? When you let go the step sequence would stop immediately. I want it to react as if it was a sampled phrase played on a pad of Kong, and as tight. 
Actually, you can already do this by using a combinator! As an example, see the combi patch called "Rack Extensions/Step Note Recorder/Combinator Patches/Demos/Arpeggio in D Minor (Key Triggered).cmb". It uses two RPG-8's, one to reset Step (so the sequence always starts from the beginning), and the other to clock Step. By this method you can trigger Step even when the song is stopped, and it will sync perfectly to other pattern devices such as Redrum and Matrix!

If you want to use Step's internal sync (to make use of its Shuffle and Gate width, for instance), you can do that as well, but remember that the song must be running in order for it to work:
  1. Create a combinator, and inside it create a Step and an RPG-8
  2. Record your sequence in Step (or load/paste it from a patch)
  3. Turn RPG-8's arpeggiator off
  4. Turn off Step's outputs using the Enable button
  5. Connect RPG-8's "Gate CV Out" to the combinator Programmer "CV in 1"
  6. In the combi programmer, select Step and add two targets for the "CV in 1" source: "Enable Outputs" and "Manual Reset"
Now, if you send a keypress to the combinator (or a gate signal to its gate input), the sequence will be triggered from the beginning and should play in perfect sync with the song. When the key is released (or the gate signal ends), Step will be immediately disabled.

This could of course be supported natively in Step itself by for example adding an additional keyboard mode named GATE or similar, removing the need for a combinator. I'm not sure at this point if this is a common enough use case to warrant its own button, but it's definitely worth adding to the list of possible features!


User avatar
NaviRetlav
Posts: 394
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 12 May 2015

Hi there.
I have a little request for you. 

So far you made a great working midi step recorder, unfortunately it doesn't fit my current live setup.
Not so long ago I tried to use the live looper RE that is available in PH shop, which is nice but it has some bugs and one of them is losing sync with the main sequencer.
I was thinking... since you can store the mid data in RE, what about doing the Live MIDI looper instead Live audio loop box. 
This one should work perfectly and we could even store our mid loops as presets. 
The main GUI could be similar to the STEP RE, but instead of recording anything in steps, we could record everything in free mode ( including free space ) with the set length for the midi loop, the option to work in add or replace mode, enabled or disabled auto quantize and scales. There could be also the Free clock mode, which will start the recording and the loop based on the first hinted note like in typical pre-armed live looper. Than there could be multiple loop slots, where each can have set different length from like 1bar up to 16bar, and than to make the midi saved with the preset you could check what's the minimal quantisation number to make it bit of grid based but still feeling like not quantised hard.

What you think about this idea?
Can you make it for us?

User avatar
Shokstar
Posts: 371
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 12 May 2015

one shot please :)

User avatar
tiker01
Posts: 1218
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 12 May 2015

buddard wrote:We have started working on the first big update of Step Node Recorder!

We're really happy with the first version we released, since it contains all the essential features and core functionality, plus some things that we didn't imagine from the beginning. But there were quite a few things that we decided to leave out in the first version, partly due to time constraints, and partly due to not being 100% sure which direction Step should go in. Primarily, we weren't really sure whether to 1) Add some kind of internal pattern support, or 2) Add more capabilities to the single sequence.

SDK 2.2 has now been officially announced, and it's not a secret that it didn't add any improved support for pattern devices. And we don't see any reason to expect this to appear anytime soon, either. Because of this (and some other factors) we have decided to take the second route: Expanding the capabilities of recording, editing and playing back a single sequence.

We already have a long list of ideas we're interested in, but (almost) nothing is set in stone and we're of course interested in hearing from you, the users! So we'd like to start a discussion around your gripes and needs, both from those of you who have been using Step for the last month, and from those of you that decided not to buy Step.

We won't be able to accommodate every wish, but we will carefully consider every suggestion and see how it fits into the overall picture. And we're going to try and be as transparent as possible in the process.

Any takers?
bxbrkrz wrote: Can you to re trigger the step sequence only when the controller's key is pressed down? When you let go the step sequence would stop immediately. I want it to react as if it was a sampled phrase played on a pad of Kong, and as tight. 
Great idea!
    
Budapest, Hungary
Reason 10
Lenovo ThinkPad e520 Win10x64 8GB RAM Intel i5-2520M 2,5-3,2 GHz and AMD 6630M with 1GB of memory.
:rt: :reason: :essentials: :re: :refill: :PUF_balance: :ignition: :PUF_figure:

User avatar
JoshuaPhilgarlic
Posts: 389
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Munich/ Germany

Post 12 May 2015

Ok, here we go...

• The ability to enter rests while recording. For now I repeat the same notes to keep the melody in mind and mute them later.

• An easy way to transpose a sequence without the need of CV. Transpose by CV is a major feature for me indeed, but sometimes I record a sequence and notice later that it's not the proper pitch.

• Ratcheting :D ! Korde introduced this two weeks ago, but I made a video about it six weeks ago ;) !

User avatar
bxbrkrz
Posts: 1173
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 12 May 2015

bxbrkrz wrote: Can you to re trigger the step sequence only when the controller's key is pressed down? When you let go the step sequence would stop immediately. I want it to react as if it was a sampled phrase played on a pad of Kong, and as tight. 
buddard wrote:
Actually, you can already do this by using a combinator! As an example, see the combi patch called
buddard wrote:"Rack Extensions/Step Note Recorder/Combinator Patches/Demos/Arpeggio in D Minor (Key Triggered).cmb"
buddard wrote:. It uses two RPG-8's, one to reset Step (so the sequence always starts from the beginning), and the other to clock Step. By this method you can trigger Step even when the song is stopped, and it will sync perfectly to other pattern devices such as Redrum and Matrix!

If you want to use Step's internal sync (to make use of its Shuffle and Gate width, for instance), you can do that as well, but remember that the song must be running in order for it to work:
  1. Create a combinator, and inside it create a Step and an RPG-8
  2. Record your sequence in Step (or load/paste it from a patch)
  3. Turn RPG-8's arpeggiator off
  4. Turn off Step's outputs using the Enable button
  5. Connect RPG-8's "Gate CV Out" to the combinator Programmer "CV in 1"
  6. In the combi programmer, select Step and add two targets for the "CV in 1" source: "Enable Outputs" and "Manual Reset"
buddard wrote:Now, if you send a keypress to the combinator (or a gate signal to its gate input), the sequence will be triggered from the beginning and should play in perfect sync with the song. When the key is released (or the gate signal ends), Step will be immediately disabled.

This could of course be supported natively in Step itself by for example adding an additional keyboard mode named GATE or similar, removing the need for a combinator. I'm not sure at this point if this is a common enough use case to warrant its own button, but it's definitely worth adding to the list of possible features!
Thank you for the step by step. Also thank you for thinking about adding it. I want something that is close enough to my WS A/D wave sequence inside Reason first, then to go beyond the possibilities on the wavestation. The next thing would be for each CV value out of the step note to trigger a different note/sample in multiple NN-XTs. I have no idea if that's possible. You've asked for ideas :)

Also while I wait for my ideas to be implemented one day your step by step convinced me to add your RE in my buy list.

User avatar
Faastwalker
Posts: 1529
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 12 May 2015

ncurry wrote:1) What about a way for each step to have it's own length (rather than automating the resolution parameter). For example, step 1 could be a quarter note, steps 2 and 3 are 8th notes, etc. The resolution knob could then scale all steps. Right now if I want to make one step longer, I could tie multiple steps together, but then I run out of steps more quickly.
Like this one ;)

steff3
Posts: 42
Joined: 20 Feb 2015

Post 13 May 2015

- possibility to set / record length of each step
- possibility to record breaks and length of break

User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 13 May 2015

NaviRetlav wrote: I was thinking... since you can store the mid data in RE, what about doing the Live MIDI looper instead Live audio loop box.
...
Well, now we're talking about a totally different RE, aren't we?  :)

I'll keep it in mind and we might pick up that discussion later on!


User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 13 May 2015

JoshuaPhilgarlic wrote: • The ability to enter rests while recording. For now I repeat the same notes to keep the melody in mind and mute them later.
You can do it now by using the Mute/Rest button (second button from the left), which is also Remote controllable. Or did you have another method in mind?
• An easy way to transpose a sequence without the need of CV. Transpose by CV is a major feature for me indeed, but sometimes I record a sequence and notice later that it's not the proper pitch.
You can also transpose via the keyboard if you click on the TRANSP soft button. But that won't alter the sequence itself, though, so you have to record the transposition notes to Step's sequencer track. I'm definitely considering some way of transposing the raw data as well.
• Ratcheting :D ! Korde introduced this two weeks ago, but I made a video about it six weeks ago ;) !
Yeah, ratcheting is indeed very cool. It could present a little bit of a problem when clocking Step externally, but we could either ignore ratcheting in that mode or "cheat" and align it with the song tempo.


samplemachine
Posts: 6
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

Post 13 May 2015

In the System 9 Pattern Sequencer and also the (yet to be released) Propulsion drum sequencer, the user can set up 16 patterns and switch between them. This switching is supported in the Reason sequencer. Can you put this functionality into Step Note Recorder?  I know you have the CV Select device but it would be great to have pattern switching.

User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 13 May 2015

steff3 wrote:- possibility to set / record length of each step
Recording the step length probably won't happen, but setting individual lengths after the fact could definitely be done. I guess we'd have to reuse the velocity lane for this.
- possibility to record breaks and length of break
Could you explain what you mean by "breaks"?

User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 13 May 2015

samplemachine wrote:In the System 9 Pattern Sequencer and also the (yet to be released) Propulsion drum sequencer, the user can set up 16 patterns and switch between them. This switching is supported in the Reason sequencer. Can you put this functionality into Step Note Recorder?  I know you have the CV Select device but it would be great to have pattern switching.
The difference is that Step is a remotable device, so it would need additional SDK support to pull this off.

User avatar
hamu
Posts: 92
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 13 May 2015

NaviRetlav wrote: I was thinking... since you can store the mid data in RE, what about doing the Live MIDI looper instead Live audio loop box.
...
buddard wrote:
Well, now we're talking about a totally different RE, aren't we?  :)

I'll keep it in mind and we might pick up that discussion later on!
This is very close to something I'm working on.
Being a spare time developer, and just starting to find a grip on the SDK 2, I'm sure you'll be able to beat me to it... :bawl:

Anyway, I need to move on with the learning, so I guess I'll move along this line anyway. Maybe there will be difference enough to justify two of them.  ;)

@Navi Retlav: Please mail me - hamu@hamu.se - if you care to contribute with ideas and maybe eventually some alfa testing!  :)

User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 13 May 2015

hamu wrote:
This is very close to something I'm working on.
Being a spare time developer, and just starting to find a grip on the SDK 2, I'm sure you'll be able to beat me to it... :bawl:

Anyway, I need to move on with the learning, so I guess I'll move along this line anyway. Maybe there will be difference enough to justify two of them.  ;)

@Navi Retlav: Please mail me - hamu@hamu.se - if you care to contribute with ideas and maybe eventually some alfa testing!  :)
Don't worry, Håkan! I'm doing this part time as well, and I have several other devices lined up. Go for it!

User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 13 May 2015

bxbrkrz wrote:The next thing would be for each CV value out of the step note to trigger a different note/sample in multiple NN-XTs. I have no idea if that's possible. You've asked for ideas :)
Again, the combinator is your friend: Just move all your NN-XTs into the same combinator, and then use the combi programmer to split them across the note range. Finally you connect Step's (which should be outside the combinator) Gate/CV outputs to the corresponding inputs on the combinator, and that's it!

User avatar
JoshuaPhilgarlic
Posts: 389
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Munich/ Germany

Post 13 May 2015

JoshuaPhilgarlic wrote: • The ability to enter rests while recording. For now I repeat the same notes to keep the melody in mind and mute them later.
buddard wrote:
You can do it now by using the Mute/Rest button (second button from the left), which is also Remote controllable. Or did you have another method in mind?
Shame on me, I totally missed that :P ! Ok, forget it ;) .
• An easy way to transpose a sequence without the need of CV. Transpose by CV is a major feature for me indeed, but sometimes I record a sequence and notice later that it's not the proper pitch.

You can also transpose via the keyboard if you click on the TRANSP soft button. But that won't alter the sequence itself, though, so you have to record the transposition notes to Step's sequencer track. I'm definitely considering some way of transposing the raw data as well.
Yep, transposing raw data is what I'm missing - especially 'cause we can already shift notes to left/right!
• Ratcheting :D ! Korde introduced this two weeks ago, but I made a video about it six weeks ago ;) !

Yeah, ratcheting is indeed very cool. It could present a little bit of a problem when clocking Step externally, but we could either ignore ratcheting in that mode or "cheat" and align it with the song tempo.
Thumbs up :D !

User avatar
Shokstar
Posts: 371
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 14 May 2015


here is my idea:

to record chords for each step. Maybe someone can remember the Kirnu VST plugin, it was pretty cool to add chords to Kirnu. maybe it´s possible with the current SDK version. :)

User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 14 May 2015

Shokstar wrote: here is my idea:

to record chords for each step. Maybe someone can remember the Kirnu VST plugin, it was pretty cool to add chords to Kirnu. maybe it´s possible with the current SDK version. :)
Im not sure I understand what you mean, would you mind explaining it a bit more in depth?

steff3
Posts: 42
Joined: 20 Feb 2015

Post 15 May 2015

Played around with ABL3 - connecting the cv and gate out to Nn-XT with upright bass samples. What I really liked was the vibrato ...

maybe that would be a great addition - adding vibrato and trill (as ratcheting is on the list - this seems conceptually close) to a step. I guess both could be added with some cv routing between Step and the tone generator - but aligning the timing - especially when Step gets variale step length - could get a bit tricky.

just some thoughts.

best

User avatar
Shokstar
Posts: 371
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 15 May 2015

to play notes in polyphony. means you can play a chord on each step in a pattern. 

for example
Step1 = C,E,G (hit 3 keys at the same time during the record)
Step2 = C 
Step3 = G 
Step4 = E



Shokstar wrote: here is my idea:

to record chords for each step. Maybe someone can remember the Kirnu VST plugin, it was pretty cool to add chords to Kirnu. maybe it´s possible with the current SDK version. :)
buddard wrote: Im not sure I understand what you mean, would you mind explaining it a bit more in depth?

User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 15 May 2015

Shokstar wrote:to play notes in polyphony. means you can play a chord on each step in a pattern. 

for example
Step1 = C,E,G (hit 3 keys at the same time during the record)
Step2 = C 
Step3 = G 
Step4 = E
Ah, I see! Yes, I have something similar on the "possible features list". It's a feature that presents quite a few challenges, I think, but it might be doable! Can't promise anything at this point, though. The conclusions I've reached so far are:
  • Each of the notes in a chord will take up one step in the sequence (so a chord is basically a "group" of steps). This means that you will be able to edit pitch/octave for each note separately, and also mute individual notes in the chord
  • Chords will be visualized by removing the vertical lines separating them in the display, and the entire "group" will light up when played
  • Chords can only be created while recording
  • Each chord will have single Tie and Repeat settings (and probably single Velocity and Width settings as well, see below)
  • Step will output chords in "pseudo polyphonic CV" (using the "delay trick") for better support across instruments, but optional support for "true poly CV" could be added as well, possibly with support for per-note widths and velocities
Another feature request was for recording ties by overlapping notes, but I guess this could be resolved by letting the user choose between two Legato modes settings: TIE and POLY.

And another poly-related feature I've been thinking about is to add Position CV in and out, which means that you could lock one instance of Step to another, so they would always be addressing the same step. This means that you could record a monophonic sequence in one instance of Step, then adding the harmonies (also monophonic sequences) in one or more additional instances. The position CV would ensure that the corresponding notes will always be played, regardless of the playback direction (especially useful for the random modes).

How to handle Position CV together with chords can present another interesting challenge...


User avatar
buddard
Posts: 673
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 18 May 2015

Regarding my ideas about polyphonic recording/playback above, there are some really messy cases to consider, for example: How should the length marker behave when you drag it across a chord. Sure, in the display I can make it "skip" the entire chord, but if you control the length through a combinator or the (possibly) forthcoming Length CV input, you might end up with the Length marker inside a chord...

So this can turn out to be a feature that is simply too impractical to implement. I think I will save this for last...


And regarding the Position In/Out CV sockets, my initial idea was to have 0-1 V map to steps 1-32. But what's the best way to match sequences of different lengths: Should the shorter sequence "hang" on the last step, or should it "wrap around"? Should we start over from step 1 again if we exceed 1V?

And how should we combine Position CV with per-step repeats? Per-step repeats imply that the number of steps in a sequence no longer necessarily corresponds to the length of the sequence... A 32 step sequence can potentially have a length of 0-256 steps (assuming 0-8 possible repeats per step)...

Lots of stuff to think about here!


Since these bigger features can cause considerable delays, I'm thinking of releasing a minor update first, with just the added CV features and optimizations, and push back the bigger features to the next update.


  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: buddard, CommonCrawl [Bot] and 4 guests