Which filter fx do you use?

[psychasm]

I have tried the following Re filtering fx but have not bought any yet. 

(1) Synapse analogue filter ( which has since been updated with added features )
(2) ubik Runciter
(3) Etch red
(4) F-16 Analogue Filter
(5) Code Diggers filter
(6) RP distort

Now im trying one which I wasnt even aware was there - The Digital Filter. I have also gone through All of my fx patches for filtering ( factory banks and purchased incl ) and cannot find any that will give me the smooth sound which I am seeking when automating cutoffs . I rely on Thor for most of my filtering and want another option .Out of those i've tried I really like the code digger filter the most , for simplicity, sound and features.

[ScuzzyEye]

For a really smooth, and stable filter sweep, you want a zero-delay feedback design. Synapse is the only developer that I know is using that so far.

[psychasm]

For a really smooth, and stable filter sweep, you want a zero-delay feedback design. Synapse is the only developer that I know is using that so far.

i wish i could triall it again on some fresh material and run in comparison with the others. Have  u tried the coder diggers filter at all?

[selig]

For a really smooth, and stable filter sweep, you want a zero-delay feedback design. Synapse is the only developer that I know is using that so far.

I was under the impression that zero-delay only affects the frequency and resonance accuracy, and not the sound in any way. It's primary function is to avoid the warp issues around nyquist (and to avoid adding prewarping), again as I understand it. It has it's advantages and disadvantages, and isn't a perfect solution by any means (again as I understand it).

All I've read mentions nothing about the smoothness nor "stability", such as this article:
http://www.adsrsounds.com/reaktor-tutor ... n-reaktor/

Finally, the proof is in the sound, and there are plenty of non-zero delay filters that sound great to my ears.

[zakalwe]

i'd say etch red all the way.  an amazing filter bank.

[eXode]

If I recall correctly, the F-16 Analogue Filter uses a non-linear 0df design (even if this isn't advertised on the product page). That said, I have to say that the non-linear model on Viking VK-1 is pretty darn good.

Regarding the Synapse AF-4, it supports stereo FM modulation at audio rate which is pretty darn nice. Combine it with Pulsar for instance...

[psychasm]

If I recall correctly, the F-16 Analogue Filter uses a non-linear 0df design (even if this isn't advertised on the product page). That said, I have to say that the non-linear model on Viking VK-1 is pretty darn good.

Regarding the Synapse AF-4, it supports stereo FM modulation at audio rate which is pretty darn nice. Combine it with Pulsar for instance...

Thanks guys for all the comments thus far. Would it be wishful thinking to expect any of these to go on sale soon? I remember blamsoft having a sale on their modular component bundle which included the f-16 in the bundle but not the filter as separate sale item. I got the distributor separately which I must say is an extremely fun and useful device and recently discovered it works pretty well when combined with a matrix and autotheory. With regards to the filter unit: Would 2 instances of the synapse filter routed into a crossfader produce a similar effect I am hearing when dialling the 'dual " filter cuttoff knob on the  code diggers D-filter? It sounds as if the resonance frequency (DUNNO WHAT ELSE TO CALL IT)  is following the cutoff frequency on both sides of the frequency spectrum. I forgot how the synapse filter sounds ,i trialled it ages ago and recently began taking interest in a filter effect for my rack. It would be nice if it did , because then i will have access to all of the other filter modes that the  d-filter does not have ,even though i like that sound very much.

[ScuzzyEye]

For a really smooth, and stable filter sweep, you want a zero-delay feedback design. Synapse is the only developer that I know is using that so far.

I was under the impression that zero-delay only affects the frequency and resonance accuracy, and not the sound in any way. It's primary function is to avoid the warp issues around nyquist (and to avoid adding prewarping), again as I understand it. It has it's advantages and disadvantages, and isn't a perfect solution by any means (again as I understand it).

All I've read mentions nothing about the smoothness nor "stability", such as this article:

http://www.adsrsounds.com/reaktor-tutor ... n-reaktor/

Finally, the proof is in the sound, and there are plenty of non-zero delay filters that sound great to my ears.

It only affects filters with resonance, as there's nothing being fed back when there's no resonance. There's also no difference when the cutoff frequency is stationary (other than the Nyquist issues of the filter's state being dependent on more than one sample). That changes when the cutoff is changed rapidly. When there is a delay in the feedback loop, the signal creating the resonance is behind the signal being processed. So the resonance being applied will be different from the signal being filtered. About stability, great care has to be taken with a delayed feedback design as to not allow rounding errors to compound, and make the filter unstable. A filter can even be stable when the cutoff is steady, but as soon as it is swept it blows up, just because of the resonance is different from the currently processed signal. While compounded rounding errors are still an issue with a zero-delay design, the need for oversampling is decreased because you're no longer trying to make more than one sample act like one.

As for sound, every digital filter until a couple years ago used a delay in the resonance loop. Lots of work was put into the design of these filters to get them to behave well, and sound good. So the new model, that's more like what happens in the analog world, isn't miles beyond them in sound.

I don't know if there are any examples of filters that are switchable between zero-delay, and delayed feedback. My current filter in my synth is a delayed design, but I've been thinking about modifying it to be zero-delay. I'll be sure to perform some tests between the two to see if I can hear a difference.

[eXode]

My current filter in my synth is a delayed design, but I've been thinking about modifying it to be zero-delay. I'll be sure to perform some tests between the two to see if I can hear a difference.

If I recall correctly, a 0df design is best used together with nonlinear feedback, for a more authentic "analogue" feel.

[Tincture]

Haven't read the replies here but Codediggers is my fave for hp/lp at >18db shelving filters.

Love the Synapse AF for adding distortion and FX. Mainly use it as a band pass with movement.

Love Uhbik Runciter for extreme stuff that tends to noise... "Deepest Chain" of mine being an example.

Like the EtchRed for modulation duties especially... lots of nice patches for that.

[dvdrtldg]

Love Uhbik Runciter for extreme stuff that tends to noise...

Me too. It's a great filter for going berserk with.

[gak]

I haven't demoed or bought one yet. But I'm VERY interested in this subject. The tough thing for me is what the RE's do vs what I have. I mean, if it's simply a matter of automating the H/LP filters, then obviously I'm golden and don't need to worry. However the "red" and a couple of others seem to achieve the desirable effect w/o breaking the bank with far more flexibility.......help me obi wan kanobi.....

[pLansford]

The Synapse AF-4 is my go to filter.  

[Ocean of Waves]

I love the Kong filter

[psychasm]

Haven't read the replies here but Codediggers is my fave for hp/lp at >18db shelving filters.

Love the Synapse AF for adding distortion and FX. Mainly use it as a band pass with movement.

Love Uhbik Runciter for extreme stuff that tends to noise... "Deepest Chain" of mine being an example.

Like the EtchRed for modulation duties especially... lots of nice patches for that.

I've tried all of them and find that the d-filter is straightforward and easy to use. I quite like it. The sweeps have a nice sizzle to it. Almost like its fizzing. I'd love to get etch red but it's extremely heavy for me at the moment on my current set-up.

[Ocean of Waves]

Don't forget the YOKO band splitter, it does a nice steep curve that is pretty darn good at removing cabinet rumble.

[psychasm]

Don't forget the YOKO band splitter, it does a nice steep curve that is pretty darn good at removing cabinet rumble.

indeed. it does. i use that one mainly for splitting up audio for mutiband fx. it's a gem!

[challism]

Etch Red is by far the best filter I have ever used.  It's amazing!

[tibah]

DFilter!

[submonsterz]

filters in reason oohhh errr etch red hands down ....

[Emian]

I've tried all of them and find that the d-filter is straightforward and easy to use. I quite like it. The sweeps have a nice sizzle to it. Almost like its fizzing. I'd love to get etch red but it's extremely heavy for me at the moment on my current set-up.

 
i agree on that.
 
Etch is cool, great patches, but it is one of those CPU-hogs ^^.
 
apparently their DCAM comps are too, compared to McDSP's (someone pointed that out in another tread).

[Iggster]

Going back to your last post Scuzzyeye, wouldn't it be cool to have a synth that allows you to switch between both a delayed design and a zero-delay filter?

It's nice to have options!

[psychasm]

Etch is cool, great patches, but it is one of those CPU-hogs ^^.
 apparently their DCAM comps are too, compared to McDSP's (someone pointed that out in another tread).

I have tried the Dcam comps and waited a long time trying various others before finally deciding on getting the MCDSP's which is very very light in comparison to all of the others which I have tested. Dunno why I just didnt get those in the first place.

[ScuzzyEye]

Going back to your last post Scuzzyeye, wouldn't it be cool to have a synth that allows you to switch between both a delayed design and a zero-delay filter? It's nice to have options!

The synth I'm working on only has an analog 4-pole LP. So I'm not going to have an option on this one. I'll just use what ever performs, and sounds best. But eventually I'm sure I'll make a synth from scratch, rather than one that's an emulation of an existing piece of hardware. Then I'll have multiple options HP, LP, BP, different slopes, etc., and if there is a noticeable difference delayed/0-delay.

[gak]

Etch is cool, great patches, but it is one of those CPU-hogs ^^.
 apparently their DCAM comps are too, compared to McDSP's (someone pointed that out in another tread).

I have tried the Dcam comps and waited a long time trying various others before finally deciding on getting the MCDSP's which is very very light in comparison to all of the others which I have tested. Dunno why I just didnt get those in the first place.

It's amazing how efficient the mcdsp ones are.