DSP Workload problems quite early in track process... ?

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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

Hi guys!

I might be doing it wrong, but I am finding myself in DSP Workload problems quite early in track process... ?

Focusrite 2i2 (tried all sorts, even huge buffer non asio, tried them all)
Windows 8, i7 processor, 8GB DDR3 RAM - basically pretty big pc bought last year.

What happens is the DPS meter just hits the ceiling while CPU is at 30% - I've read a few threads explaining the relationship here, that CPU is not = DSP - and I'm thinking it also has to do with my soundcard.

So is this where I should upgrade? A new soundcard. If I, let's say, was not really interested in cutting down on the amount of REs? Or is there some kind of magical limit in terms of the max allowed amount of REs that Reason itself will tolerate, before clipping DPS load into red.

I should mention that I recently went from having Reason and all files sitting on the SSD, to having Reason installed on the SSD, while all external libraries (not in the box items, but otherwise) are sitting on an internal 3TB IDE disk.

Also: Has someone gathered a list , even just partial, of estimated "level" of DSP use of a range of REs, just for reference? Would like to know where I could possibly cut down or swap.

Thanks and hello!

Smallstuf

EDIT: Example, a track has 19 mixer channels, of which 2 are parallels. No bus routing yet.
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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

So, just counted,. 88 rack extensions for that example track (track has 19 mixer channels, of which 2 are parallels. No bus routing yet.)

just to add a little more info
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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

And also tried this whole list, even if it's a little old

http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/10- ... audio-1075

No real payoff from those, although I must say that SHIFT+CTRL+ALT when clicking maximize, minimize racks/instruments is handy for opening or closing EVERYTHING at once.

S
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Olivier
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06 May 2015


All DSP work is done by your CPU.

Sometimes it does help however, to increas the buffer size of your soundcard. This will increases latency but there are times this isn't an issue. This can give you a bit more breathing space when you can justabout manage it. Its not a long term solution in my book though.
Also in the preferences, under general, you can up the CPU usage limit (if you haven't allready)

What always helps is adding more cores to your CPU.

As far as i remember Reason utilizes all your physical cores minus one. This is to leave some power the system to do its internal housekeeping.
So if you have an i7 dualcore, Reason only uses 1 of them. If however you have a quadcore Reason would be using 3 cores and have roughly about 3 times as much DSP available.

Is your i7 a dual or a quadcore ?

If you haven't allready, there may be things you can do smarter. Cut down on the insert FX if you can also handle it with send FX. Softube's TSAR comes to mind for a candidate (if you have it)..

Just my 2 cents.



:reason: V9 | i7 5930 | Motu 828 MK3 | Win 10

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jfrichards
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06 May 2015

How many individual reverbs do you have in use at the same time?
What is your CPU use limit set at?
Are you running 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96?
How many parameter knobs are automated with curves/slopes?
Are you getting lockups?  Scratchy noises?  Too slow messages?

psychasm
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06 May 2015

Your machine sounds like it should be able to handle quite a lot. At work I have similar specs ,just more RAm. Its first generation i7 architecture and i have to really try very hard to get to 50% CPU usage. Sounds like it could be an OS issue coz I have on-board sound and practically no latency when compared to my home - pc which has a decent card. Have you disabled windows - search as well as search-indexer.exe from task manager. On WIN 7 if you have , then it should remain disabled , even after restart. On WIN 8 however( I dont believe that it is dependant on your machine ) It might need to be disabled again after restarting. This seemingly insignificant feature can eat up your ram and all of your system resources , including hard - disk transfer and CPU usage . According to my experience ,It gets quite bad , the more ram and the larger your hard disk is. It's worse when on a network and your files are large and all pc's on your network are set up the same way. Also check the size of your audio files in the track you are working on, if you have any.

hope this helps

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selig
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06 May 2015

Smallter Ego wrote:So, just counted,. 88 rack extensions for that example track (track has 19 mixer channels, of which 2 are parallels. No bus routing yet.)

just to add a little more info
Am I reading this correctly: you have 88 REs on a track and you're just getting started? Or do you have 88 REs installed in your system?

I doubt I've EVER used 88 REs in a single song, and if this is the case it's where I'd begin in establishing why you're having issues, especially if the REs in question are reverbs or other higher CPU consumption effects. 
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

@ Euahm (and thanks!) - here's my sys info, not sure how many cores:

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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

@jfrichards (thanks for this) - to answer:

How many individual reverbs do you have in use at the same time? I must admit I love to add individual reverb on practically all instruments, mainly the little red one from Propellerhead actually. Thig is I started at Reas on 3 there was of course no SSL mixer and all the sends an all that possible there, so I have grown used to just adding EVERYTHING on a rack level per "sound".

What is your CPU use limit set at? No limit :)

Are you running 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96? 44.1

How many parameter knobs are automated with curves/slopes? Not a lot actually... the last track never made it out of stacked 8 bar loop mode, which is how I startup usually.

Are you getting lockups?  Scratchy noises?  Too slow messages? Yeah, matrix effect on the loop when a lot hits or I unmute all and yeah things just clash.  So it's delay, stutter, red mark at DSP meter... all the things that makes my hair grey.

ty
s
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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

@psychasm - wow thanks, never knew this. Must try it! Nope, haven't tried any of it in fact. No audio files yet though, and this worries me, because these suck up even more DSP need, right? Audio...

S
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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

@Selig - woops, not 88 different REs LOL ... but 88 RE items. a lot of duplicates of course.

Yeah so the song is actually ready to be arranged, everything sounds like it should, per instrument. So in that sense I am done trying to prepare for arrangement, which is how I just have come to do it with time. Crazy maybe...

Seriously considering the SSL mixer now and what is has to offer, since it, by itself, probably also has its say in DSP consumtion? Even if not "in use" yet...  can this be correct?

My old Reason 3 files all had a few 14:2 mixers with stuff going in and that was that, so I'm thinking my big surprise from hitting a wall "so soon" could have something to do with me working Reason 8 like it was Reason 3...

See, talking to myself, even. Answering myself as well - all good!
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Olivier
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06 May 2015

Smallter Ego wrote:@ Euahm (and thanks!) - here's my sys info, not sure how many cores:

Image
Thats a 4 core CPU, so i think you're good in that regard !
I'd invest in a bit more RAM though (as others also mentioned)
:reason: V9 | i7 5930 | Motu 828 MK3 | Win 10

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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

Slight progression here on my own, turns out shutting down Chrome with a stack of tabs gave a small boost and less crackle/stutter and red DSP meter in Reason, which I can only point to RAM. I mean what else could it be..

So I'm thinking now that my 8GB of RAM is just too puny... at least it could be a contributing factor. as you also point out, Euahm! More RAM. It's a cheap place to start tweaking, cheaper than a new Audio Interface that's for sure.

S
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psychasm
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06 May 2015

Smallter Ego wrote:So, just counted,. 88 rack extensions for that example track (track has 19 mixer channels, of which 2 are parallels. No bus routing yet.)

just to add a little more info
Okay so 88 rack extensions is quite a bit to have in one single track. Once you start adding more parallels your DSP usage should increase, and once DSP reaches peak levels , then significant amounts of latency will be introduced and at that point your track should cease playing. Even if channels are muted/disabled it wont help. Sounds like you have a whole lot going there and might need to reduce the amount of re's u have. BTW what type of track are you making?

Edit:  Also once you activate your mastering setup ,it will sadly also add to your problems especially if you have a complex setup using re's as EQ, Compressor , maximiser etc. And you will probably need Run multiple instances of a compressor/limiter  if you do frequency splitting.

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jfrichards
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06 May 2015

Smallter Ego wrote:...88 rack extensions for that example track ...
Which ones are you using?  Some are lightweight, and some are CPU hogs.

psychasm
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06 May 2015

Smallter Ego wrote:@psychasm - wow thanks, never knew this. Must try it! Nope, haven't tried any of it in fact. No audio files yet though, and this worries me, because these suck up even more DSP need, right? Audio...

S
Defintely. Audio files will be like the grim reaper once you start duplicating them in your arrangement. 

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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

It's Trap / Dn B style fusion - I admit that 88 is probably a personal record too haha

let me just get names and count of the REs, brb - yeah , knowing which ones are hogs would definitely help, I think this would have been nice to know up front lol
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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

OK, so started counting and getting FRG 4RE compressor x 12 (woops?)

Please tell me it is not sys heavy

looove it
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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015


OK, just counted and track totals at:
Instruments:
Dr. Octorex x 7
Redrum x 3 (on track as midi)
Radical Keys x 2
Parsec x 1
Snakebite x 1
NN19 x 2
Malstroem x 1
Effects:
Mclass Maximizer between master section and audio card
AF4 Analog filter as sidechain on the master bus compressor
BV 512 Vocoder x 2
The Echo x 6
RV-7 verb x 6
CF-101 Chorus x 6
Audiomatic x 4
Pulveriser x 1
Polar x 5
Echobode x 6
FRG 4RE compressor x 12
Euclid x 6
Steerpike delay x 5
TSAR-1 x 3
Black Knight x 3
+ On mix channel EQ as well, but no action other than that on the SSL part.
I feel I paid enough for the pc mentioned above to be able to "do stuff" and not having to worry a lot... but yeah... definitely either maxing out like a pig with this huge stack, or just assembling stuff wrong.
Tips on light/heavy loading racks would be nice! And pointers on using the SSL instead, even just a link, would be most welcome, or any other thoughts. Ty!

Come to think of it: The crackling or stutters also happen at time when I scroll around the sequencer view or rack view, while playing back the track, and right around a top level DSP, movement of the visuals using my mouse wheel for instance, seems to cause additional load to "something", making it just peek into red on the DSP meter, causing it to go overboard. So... we need graphic card specs as well? :) haha . Geforce something... afaik. Monitor is a BenQ M2700HD.
S.
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Smallter Ego
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06 May 2015

OK so 80 - yes eighty - of the FRG 4RE compressors in a new track from the default template, using the above pc setup, playing a rex loop with about 10 knobs automated to space, takes the DSP meter to about 75%, no more than that.

I think I would categorize this RE as LIGHT LOAD :D
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TheFesta
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07 May 2015

Smallter Ego wrote:OK so 80 - yes eighty - of the FRG 4RE compressors in a new track from the default template, using the above pc setup, playing a rex loop with about 10 knobs automated to space, takes the DSP meter to about 75%, no more than that.

I think I would categorize this RE as LIGHT LOAD :D
I wouldnt consider that a light load, i really dont think the problem is your computer.

why do you need 80 frg compressors if your using rex loops? Do you have eighty rex loops?

anyway maybe change your startup template - that sounds like some major overkill to me.

For starters delete anything in the rack that you arent using, if it is still bad then i suggest bouncing to audio in a new empty template and sequencing as audio (remember to turn timestretch off when adjusting tempo to fit).

Your CPU will then be back to zero.


"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."• Dr  Samuel Johnson

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TheFesta
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07 May 2015

Smallter Ego wrote:OK so 80 - yes eighty - of the FRG 4RE compressors in a new track from the default template, using the above pc setup, playing a rex loop with about 10 knobs automated to space, takes the DSP meter to about 75%, no more than that.

I think I would categorize this RE as LIGHT LOAD :D
I think i mis-understood your point with the frg compressor.

Even so  i have a reasonably powerful laptop and i think mine would struggle with what you are using.

Cant see the graphics card being an issue wouldnt have thought reason is particularly graphic intensive.

Best to try be bit more efficient with devices, if you cant - bounce to audio and start a new session.
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."• Dr  Samuel Johnson

:recycle: :reason: :record: :ignition: :PUF_balance: :refill: :re:

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