1000 Developers?

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
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Lizard
Posts: 464
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

28 Apr 2015

I do respect your viewpoint Softphonics.  It is hard to watch sometimes how some products (most particularly Re) are discussed in forums... this one or elsewhere.  I think many developers can take constructive criticism well enough and improve on their products shortcoming if presented respectfully.  Belittling the developer serves no one well.  It's biting the hand that feeds you in a way and breeds discontent.  I'm not sure that the general public understands how difficult it is to create one of these Re products in either discipline : C++ or IDT.  I am finding that the difference gap narrows the more I look at it.  If people knew more about what was involved some may take a step back next time they comment on available rack extensions

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EnochLight
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28 Apr 2015

While I agree all comments should be respectful and in good taste, I completely disagree that reviews (whether they be 1 star or written or otherwise) should be tailored to massage a fragile dev.  Let's be frank here: we're talking about supply and demand.  If I make a crappy product, no matter how much work went into it - if people don't like it then I clearly haven't made a successful product.  All do respect to your friend Softphonics, as I'm sure his RE was cool - but wouldn't he/she want honest feedback?  Were people really just posting 1-star reviews to be dicks?
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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EnochLight
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28 Apr 2015

Softphonics wrote:
EnochLight wrote:While I agree all comments should be respectful and in good taste, I completely disagree that reviews (whether they be 1 star or written or otherwise) should be tailored to massage a fragile dev.  Let's be frank here: we're talking about supply and demand.  If I make a crappy product, no matter how much work went into it - if people don't like it then I clearly haven't made a successful product.  All do respect to your friend Softphonics, as I'm sure his RE was cool - but wouldn't he/she want honest feedback?  Were people really just posting 1-star reviews to be dicks?
Softphonics wrote:
Hi,
Ye constructive critic is always welcome. But I am sure most dev's will tell you similar stories about "Dicks" yes there is dicks out there!
We recently had an experience with a user who basically attempted blackmail. He said, I want "X" for free and I want it today.
When we replied and asked why he should get the particular product free he said..
"Because if i have to pay for it in the store I will be marking it a 1 star - your choice"

So after some investigation, It turns out developers get this kind of thing all the time. 
So that is a bit different from constructive criticism from a genuine music maker & music lover!! 
I could tell some other funny stories.. and i am sure others here like JiggeryP / Selig may be able to also.. Maybe we should have a thread for it.
That is just one example, But it illustrates my point. You really have to sit in the developers shoes to see the fuckin weirdos that are out there every bloody day there is some brain dead idiot believing he/she is a genuine reason musician. 
Oh I don't doubt that - the entire Internet is littered with self-entitled weirdos who will scream and pound their hands on the floor to get their way.  But.. and perhaps this is me just coming from a sales perspective - I'm used to dealing with asshole customers.  We stick to our corporate policy, sell a decent product that most people seem to like, and ignore the few asshats out there who try and pull the shit you just described.  

That said, I doubt what you describe is indicative of just Reasoners alone.  The VST/AU market is 10 times as large and those devs - I'm sure - have their fair share of nightmare customer stories!   ;)

BTW - congrats on the refill release.  Sounds bad ass!
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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jfrichards
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

28 Apr 2015

Softphonics wrote:...every bloody day there is some brain dead idiot believing he/she is a genuine reason musician. 
When I joined the PUF 9 years ago, there were around 5 of them on the forum, and one more popped up each year, so by the end, after several bannings, there were around 6 of them causing a degree of insanity.  If it were one new one a day on the forum, we would all run away screaming.  Their sense of first-world entitlement was shocking also.  Many thanks again to Brent and the other mods here for keeping it chill.

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joeyluck
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28 Apr 2015

Well I'd say the Propellethead shop ratings are pretty spot on accurate representations of what the products are worth. Sure sometimes I see a product that I feel is a 5 star, but sure enough, it's a 4.8. The masses speak and it all evens out just like in any online store rating system.

Good solid products will stay standing.

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Lizard
Posts: 464
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

28 Apr 2015

EnochLight wrote:While I agree all comments should be respectful and in good taste, I completely disagree that reviews (whether they be 1 star or written or otherwise) should be tailored to massage a fragile dev.  Let's be frank here: we're talking about supply and demand.  If I make a crappy product, no matter how much work went into it - if people don't like it then I clearly haven't made a successful product.  All do respect to your friend Softphonics, as I'm sure his RE was cool - but wouldn't he/she want honest feedback?  Were people really just posting 1-star reviews to be dicks?
I of course would not think that the users should hold back on giving honest feedback to developers.  How else would it improve right?  I also think that a person should have somewhat tough skin when it comes to comments regarding their products.  Old proverb :  If you can't stand the heat.... But is there any value in "This sucks balls!"  Other than.... this only displays dissatisfaction.  That's it.  It is purely subjective and offers no opportunity for improvement for the developer.  Aside from the fact that it is in poor taste and only spawns emotional discord.  Is it really that bad?  Or is it because the user just likes Antidote more than your product?  Hard to say.  But if someone says "I dislike your product because the GUI is hard to understand, values of tooltips don't match what is being displayed on the device and you have set horrible loop points....."  This starts to have credibility. 

On stars people 1 star all the time.  To me that is a horrible product.  I do not think I have seen a one star product yet.  Well... I take that back.  I may have.  LOL  But it is not rampant.  And on the opposite of the spectrum you should not get 5 stars for being good.  It should be for being freaking  awesome!  Good should be 4 stars.  3 should be average.  2 stars should be it needs some work still.  1 star should be "Why was this released?".  The argument has been for there to be comments to the rating of which I think is a great idea.  I value people's comments except when it is " 1 star - this sucks balls."  In this matter I can then say yes... they were being dicks.

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Iapetus 9
Posts: 199
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

28 Apr 2015

This is exactly why I personally hate the rating system for RE's. Kinda childish if you ask me. Any sort of self entitled vendetta will score a low mark. Too many drama queens in every corner for this to work well. I hate romplers...especially when I can't import my own sounds, and frankly, already have a suitable NN-XT and 19 to service this need. That said, more RE's adds more value to the program, and just because I dislike the RE restrictions so far doesn't mean that someone won't find value in the products. How do you conceivably rate that?
38L > 51D every time.

avasopht
Competition Winner
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29 Apr 2015

If you think Propellerhead's 1000 developers is "bad", Ouya (the android based micro console) has 40,000 registered developers for just 1,000 apps!

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joeyluck
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29 Apr 2015

Softphonics wrote: You are spot on right Lapetus 9, drama queens and ego's spoil the system.. And JoeyLuck no matter what people say here with respect, it is a known problem by PH and there will be an alternative coming along soon to the star system. Watch this space!
On the subject of this thread..
Today we have regretfully decided to pull the plug on designing anything more for reason for now, there are some smalls thing already passed through Ph for release but after that... make that 1000 > 999.

Take it easy out there people.
Cheers

/A
That's great (the potential update to the star system, that is). Myself and others have made suggestions since the beginning.

I for one think criteria should simply be added...that way folks have to rate on 5-10 different things when rating something. Also it would be nice to how many users voted 1 star or 5 stars, etc.

Also, maybe requiring a review with a vote would help as well...

But don't you only sell ReFills? Customers need to have purchased them in order to vote...

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Lizard
Posts: 464
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

29 Apr 2015

Softphonics wrote:Today we have regretfully decided to pull the plug on designing anything more for reason for now, there are some smalls thing already passed through Ph for release but after that... make that 1000 > 999.
Well that is not encouraging but as a business decision I'd understand it.  Companies must focus on things that bring most awareness to their line/name as well as revenue.  Your statement says "for now" which does not state with certainty that you won't return to the concept so maybe we can reserve hope. ;)   Chambre would make an awesome IDT.  :)

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