Changing payment currency in the shop

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Libraquaricorn
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Post 20 Mar 2015

An item costs 199 US Dollar = 1607 Norwegian Krone (my currency) in the Propellerhead Shop.
Same item costs 159 Euros = 1372 Norwegian Krone.

When I check out I'm always billed in USD, automatically. Is it possible to change this? I've tried to find out about this but no luck. I would like to be able to change this again and again as currencies change over time, since that obviously saves me a bit of my hard earned money.

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gullum
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Post 20 Mar 2015

I think it's as simple as Norway not being a part of the EU 

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At Vero Eos
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Post 20 Mar 2015

gullum wrote:I think it's as simple as Norway not being a part of the EU 
But locally, EUR as currency should be first choice. Individual currency would of course be best for the custumer, so he can decide depending on daily exchange rates.

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Olivier
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Post 20 Mar 2015

gullum wrote:I think it's as simple as Norway not being a part of the EU 
At Vero Eos wrote: But locally, EUR as currency should be first choice. Individual currency would of course be best for the custumer, so he can decide depending on daily exchange rates.
I agree with gullum.

I think the root of the difference in prices is not in the exchange rates, but in differences in tax regulations that apply to the sale.

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Namahs Amrak
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Post 20 Mar 2015

What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price.

I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
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eusti
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price. I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
The Euro not doing so well in comparison to the US $ is just fairly recent to my knowledge...
So, you might not have suffered as big a loss as you'd think looking at recent exchange rates.

D.

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submonsterz
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price. I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
eusti wrote:
The Euro not doing so well in comparison to the US $ is just fairly recent to my knowledge...
So, you might not have suffered as big a loss as you'd think looking at recent exchange rates.

D.
Lol it is because of the drop in euro . Had this argument when no one gave two flying xxxxx when us euro payers were paying a huge percentage more than dollar payers because of them not having to pay the taxes we had to back then. nice to have the shoe on the other foot.

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selig
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price. I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
Or it has been SAVING other folks hundreds of dollars, who's to say? We tend to look at things only from our own perspective…in other words, have YOU been ripped off (and by whom?), or is it the others who are saving? Glass half empty, glass half full? ;)
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selig
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price. I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
eusti wrote:
The Euro not doing so well in comparison to the US $ is just fairly recent to my knowledge...
So, you might not have suffered as big a loss as you'd think looking at recent exchange rates.

D.
submonsterz wrote: Lol it is because of the drop in euro . Had this argument when no one gave two flying xxxxx when us euro payers were paying a huge percentage more than dollar payers because of them not having to pay the taxes we had to back then. nice to have the shoe on the other foot.
Sounds like you're saying it's nice to see others suffer for a change - maybe you should clarify that statement? Or if it's true, maybe you should keep it to yourself?!? ;)

Carry on…
:)
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Namahs Amrak
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price. I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
selig wrote:
Or it has been SAVING other folks hundreds of dollars, who's to say? We tend to look at things only from our own perspective…in other words, have YOU been ripped off (and by whom?), or is it the others who are saving? Glass half empty, glass half full? ;)
Mate, im not overpaying to subsidize other Reason users. :)

Im going to take this up with Propellerhead

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selig
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price. I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
selig wrote:
Or it has been SAVING other folks hundreds of dollars, who's to say? We tend to look at things only from our own perspective…in other words, have YOU been ripped off (and by whom?), or is it the others who are saving? Glass half empty, glass half full? ;)
Namahs Amrak wrote: Mate, im not overpaying to subsidize other Reason users. :) Im going to take this up with Propellerhead
My point exactly, we tend to look only at things through our own perspective. If the tables were turned but the issue remained the same, would you be taking it up with the Propellerheads?   ;)
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Namahs Amrak
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Post 20 Mar 2015

And eusti, the AUD/USD conversion has been shocking for a few months now so my comment is based on RE purchases of the last 6 months, not my entire collection. During this time the AUD/EUR FX has been favourable.

Submonsterz, your comment seems a bit spiteful. Its of no relevance to you personally that AUD and NZ customers are being shafted.
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Eagleizer
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price. I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
eusti wrote:
The Euro not doing so well in comparison to the US $ is just fairly recent to my knowledge...
So, you might not have suffered as big a loss as you'd think looking at recent exchange rates.

D.
submonsterz wrote: Lol it is because of the drop in euro . Had this argument when no one gave two flying xxxxx when us euro payers were paying a huge percentage more than dollar payers because of them not having to pay the taxes we had to back then. nice to have the shoe on the other foot.
It`s the Dollar that has gone up!

The Euro have gone up an down like a jojo since introduced. The last year it have
been way too high. The reason it`s down and closer to "normal" now is that EU have
printed a lot of money to avoid deflation, because the Euro got too valuable. If Euro
is too high, export slows down and people loose their jobs. When people loose their
jobs, they buy less, and then more people loose their jobs, from companies that
don`t do export too. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It`s a fine balance. 

The tax you pay when you live in EU, is going back to you as services provided by
your government. If you live outside EU, you will be taxed in other ways for receiving 
services in your own country. But hell, I`ll rather pay tax to EU if I end up saving
money! ;)
Libraquaricorn wrote:An item costs 199 US Dollar = 1607 Norwegian Krone (my currency) in the Propellerhead Shop. Same item costs 159 Euros = 1372 Norwegian Krone. When I check out I'm always billed in USD, automatically. Is it possible to change this? I've tried to find out about this but no luck. I would like to be able to change this again and again as currencies change over time, since that obviously saves me a bit of my hard earned money.
NOK went up yesterday because Den Norske Bank decided to not lower the key
rate as most people expected. It will probably continue to go up, so just sit
back and watch your money grow back to normal. (Unless USA release Crude oil
to the international market, which will lower the NOK even more. Good for Norwegian
export (except oil) and people with large loans , sucks for most others).

In the last 12 months or so, Dollar is up 35% against NOK. It`s also up against
Swedish Kronor (SEK) which is good for Props. The high value of the dollar is only
good for those who get paid in Dollar. For the rest of us it sucks big time.

About the currency in the shop: 
I would definitely contact Props about this unless you are going to wait until the NOK
is back to normal anyway. That will take some time tho, the choice to freeze the key
rate may backfire... Personally I have the last days learned to wait for huge discounts
in Props shop, so I don`t care right now. Maybe if there is something I really want/need... 

I have had a lot of problems with the currency in stores myself, Steam being one that
charged me in Euro, which at the time was more expensive than Dollar. Now I pay in
Dollar - Loose-Loose :P LOL.  With Steam it`s no problem as games can be gifted, so I 
transfer money to a friend who buy for me in Euro and gift to my account.  :s0801:
(but prices can bee different from country to country on Steam)

It`s normal to get charged in Euro when buying from "EU-stores" when you are
living in Norway. I never liked it, as there is normally added tax when you buy in Euro,
without getting the Norwegian buyer protection you will get if you buy in Norway, but
as you point out, now it would be great when shopping from Props. Ideally, there should
be a automatic "translate" between the currency in the shop, but I think we`ll have to
wait a looong time for that to happen.   :s0403:   :s0238:  


Cheers :)

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submonsterz
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price. I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
eusti wrote:
The Euro not doing so well in comparison to the US $ is just fairly recent to my knowledge...
So, you might not have suffered as big a loss as you'd think looking at recent exchange rates.

D.
submonsterz wrote: Lol it is because of the drop in euro . Had this argument when no one gave two flying xxxxx when us euro payers were paying a huge percentage more than dollar payers because of them not having to pay the taxes we had to back then. nice to have the shoe on the other foot.
selig wrote:
Sounds like you're saying it's nice to see others suffer for a change - maybe you should clarify that statement? Or if it's true, maybe you should keep it to yourself?!? ;)

Carry on…
:)
Yeah remember when all eu complained one about the vat added plus the crap exchange rates back on the PUF . I got answerd back the same way back then.
As I said nice to see the shoe on the other foot for once and not be on the end of the gloating that went on back in that discussion on PUF . You know it's the karma thing or you get what you sow
and it's not aimed a Mr shaman it's an in general comment.
people laughed and gloated about people like me back on PUF asking for the way to exchange to dollars for better exchange rates compared to the Euro. .

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SteveDiverse
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Post 20 Mar 2015

selig wrote:Glass half empty, glass half full? ;)
Glass is always full: water on the bottom; air on top.   ;)
:reason: :reload: :record: :ignition: :refill: :re: | :rt: FTW

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submonsterz
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Post 20 Mar 2015

selig wrote:Glass half empty, glass half full? ;)
SteveDiverse wrote: Glass is always full: water on the bottom; air on top.   ;)
unless it's carbonated then the air remains rising till it turns flat .
and water contains oxygen until stagnant to.

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selig
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:What the fuck! This never crossed my mind, but I just checked the Australian dollar against the Euro, then the USD. On Jiggery Pokerys new RE I could save $15 by paying in Euro. Thats a fairly big % of the list price. I guess I have been getting ripped off for a long time. The question must be asked, if I am not in the US, Props are not in the US, then why have I been getting slugged for USD/AUD conversion? Overall this has probably cost me HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
eusti wrote:
The Euro not doing so well in comparison to the US $ is just fairly recent to my knowledge...
So, you might not have suffered as big a loss as you'd think looking at recent exchange rates.

D.
submonsterz wrote: Lol it is because of the drop in euro . Had this argument when no one gave two flying xxxxx when us euro payers were paying a huge percentage more than dollar payers because of them not having to pay the taxes we had to back then. nice to have the shoe on the other foot.
selig wrote:
Sounds like you're saying it's nice to see others suffer for a change - maybe you should clarify that statement? Or if it's true, maybe you should keep it to yourself?!? ;)

Carry on…
:)
submonsterz wrote: Yeah remember when all eu complained one about the vat added plus the crap exchange rates back on the PUF . I got answerd back the same way back then. As I said nice to see the shoe on the other foot for once and not be on the end of the gloating that went on back in that discussion on PUF . You know it's the karma thing or you get what you sow and it's not aimed a Mr shaman it's an in general comment. people laughed and gloated about people like me back on PUF asking for the way to exchange to dollars for better exchange rates compared to the Euro. .
PUF - all ancient history and water under the bridge now. Let's leave all that behind and start fresh here!
:)
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Namahs Amrak
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Post 20 Mar 2015

selig wrote: PUF - all ancient history and water under the bridge now. Let's leave all that behind and start fresh here!
:)
In submoster's defense, he wasn't directing any PUF prejudice towards me, and I thought he made it very clear in using the word 'karma' in a general (although incorrect) context.

However, sub - I suspect that you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. I'm assuming you are in the EU.

An EU resident cannot claim to have been unfairly charged because they cannot pick and choose the currency to avoid legitimate taxes. I'm making another assumption here that with a unified currency such as the EU (and all EU nations) that all EU transactions attract the same VAT (or whatever it is called).

In Australia, if I invoice a client, for most sales I am required to charge GST (Goods & Service Tax). The only notable exceptions are fresh food, some toiletries and perhaps charitable monies. If I provide $100 of services, I will invoice for $110, the extra 10% being GST that the customer pays, and I, as the supplier, am then required to repay this to the Tax department. 

Although if I have a customer based in another country, they are not required to pay the GST, therefore my invoice will only be $100. Often they may request the invoice be drafted in their own currency, but even if I bill them in AUD, it doesn't matter - they do not pay the GST. An Australian customer cannot simply choose to say that they are in another country to avoid the 10% tax, this would be illegal.

In the case of Rack extensions, EU customers purchasing from an EU-based company will surely attract a VAT/GST/whatever it may be called. Therefore the USD price default assumes the buyer to be in the USA, will always be lower (in a 1:1 FX ratio) because US customers will be exempt from paying US tax.

The issue here, of which the OP is discussion, and of which I am following up on, is that Norway (and in my case Australia) is neither part of the EU or in the USA. For non-EU customers to be forced into purchasing in USD currency is presently unfavourable for us.. in recent days the user Jagwah has voiced similar concerns that that AUD conversion from USD has stopped him from considering purchases.

Using JP's new RE as an example again, the $75 special offer is up to $110 for us here in Australia, once we factor in the criminal extra % that the banks or PayPal impose with a higher-than-listed exchange rate for the day. And it's not as if the cost of living here is less,either. The cost of living here is MORE than in the USA (for example, I live in Sydney - statistically one of the most expensive cities in the world to reside). With that in mind, $75 is hard enough to justify... $110 is just ridiculous.

There is no justifiable reason for Propellerhead to be charging me in USD, and it's costing me big money for being locked in to USD transactions (as I said, an extra $15 for JP's RE, when buying as USD instead of EU). Ironically, the $15 saving I could make INCLUDES EU VAT/GST, so in a perfect world, I would be exempt from that also, further saving me money.

The larger impact is on developers, through no fault of their own. A higher ticket price to the end consumer is obviously going to be a deterrent to purchase. In light of this discussion, of which I am quite shocked at myself for never considering the issue before today, if for example I were to be charged the EU price, and exempt from paying tax that I am not obliged to pay, then I would be buying HEAPS of RE's. While I don't actually expect Propellerheads to work in a tax-exempt category and am happy to pay the tax componenet (of which their accounting team should be realising the goldmine of that money staying in their profit stream rather than being paid to the tax man), it would not be unreasonable to expect that I can break out of the USD pricing, because I'm not in the USA.


Even better, and easily implemented, of course would be for all charges to be in AUD (for me). That way the ONLY FX rate change would be on Props end, converting AUD to EU when they report their profit. Let's look at some figures, based on today's posted FX rates. Again I will use JP's device as a point of example. This is no reflection on his product or the pricing, but I'm using it because a fellow Australian has expressed a lack of desire to buy due to the exchange rate, and it's a new RE. The current price is 59EUR/$75USD

59 EUR = 82.14 AUD
75 USD = 96.49 AUD

A difference of $14.35, still paying an EU tax where I don't need to, and still saving a lot of money. If I were to be exempt from paying the EU tax that will never be repaid to the Swedish tax man anyway, but stay in Prop's pocket (what's the rate? let's say 10%) then I would save a further $8.35, reducing the total price I pay in my own currency by $22.70. All of a sudden, JP's Rack extension is rightfully and legally costing me $59 Australian dollars. With the current setup of being charged in USD, it will cost me almost double, bearing in mind that if the listed rate is 0.78c, then Paypal will hit me at 0.74c (a sad & sorrt legal fraud that financial institutions exercise)

Please remind me again why I am paying almost twice as much for an RE than I legally and legitimately need to ?

It's just another aspect of sloppy oversight in which other parties suffer. Either the (non EU or US) end user gets slugged heavily, or the developer misses out on sales. It would even be in Propellerhead's best interest to better align currency rates, thus increase sales to attract their 30% commission, but they seem very short sighted on business matters. Apart from the VAT/GST that they pocket, they have nothing to lose by addressing this issue, and everything to gain.










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selig
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Post 20 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:
Please remind me again why I am paying almost twice as much for an RE than I legally and legitimately need to ?
I agree it sucks, and I sincerely HOPE this matter is being taken seriously. But to that one question, only you can answer that. ;)

I feel a bit stuck in the middle here, as I am both a developer AND a customer. If one conversion rate works in my favor as a developer, it's almost a given it will not favor me as a customer (and vice versa). 

For those who take issue with this, the best thing to do is to contact the Props directly with your grievances. As a developer I can let the Props know there are unhappy customers, but it's always better if the unhappy customers let the Props know directly. If they are loosing sales they need to know why - and they need to know what to do (according to their customers) to win those customers back.

I CAN say this much - many developers have expressed their feelings on the exchange rate issues (especially as it concerns the falling Euro), and best I can tell at least some of this will be addressed in the near future.

But don't let that give anyone a false sense of security - if there are matters that are making it difficult to justify a purchase, the Props REALLY need to hear about it (if you haven't let them have it already!).
:)
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Namahs Amrak
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Post 20 Mar 2015

selig wrote:
I agree it sucks, and I sincerely HOPE this matter is being taken seriously. But to that one question, only you can answer that. ;)
Mate, I am dead serious. Since the topic has been raised, I feel that this is a poor state of affairs for those living outside of the EU or USA
selig wrote:I feel a bit stuck in the middle here, as I am both a developer AND a customer. If one conversion rate works in my favor as a developer, it's almost a given it will not favor me as a customer (and vice versa).
The significant issue for you as a developer is not the exchange rate impacting on the monies you receive, it's on people buying/not buying, due to, let's say an Australian working out that they're paying up to double the price, and rethink their spending. While Props may well consider those outside of the aformentioned regions to be a small percentage of the overall customer base, a sale is a sale. I can think of six people right off the top of my head in Australia, and I'm sure there are others. Not to mention New Zealand, South America, Africa, Asia and European nations that are not part of the union. Perhaps it might be 10% only, but I'll tell you now that if I operated a business in a global market, I would want to be damn sure I'm serving the entire user base properly.

For you as a customer, sure it's not great that you're spending $75 when the calculated EU equivalent would only be $65, but you are in fact in the USA, so for whatever reason Props have determined, you pay the USD price, based on your location. My own concern is that in the absence of a local currency unit, I am getting the far worse of the two options between EU and USD, two regions that are thousands of miles from my country, in which there is no economic unity on the international currency market. A random, short-sighted decsion by Props results in more than just a few pennies extra.
selig wrote:But don't let that give anyone a false sense of security - if there are matters that are making it difficult to justify a purchase, the Props REALLY need to hear about it (if you haven't let them have it already!).
:)
I will consider it (both the forced USD, and also, if buying in EUR, an exemption from the tax) but honestly, I am so sick of (what I perceive to be) a range of bad business behaviours, at times deplorable support responses and dubious licencing policies from Props, some of which should be called to account from a legal standpoint. And now we have the discussion of amateur currency discrepancies added to the mix. To keep fighting for what is right and just with them makes me angry, and I am conciously trying to find peace in my life, so the act of the challenge itself is to my detriment. This discussion has simply brought to light another issue in which will make me re-think future purchases, and I will urge other non-regioned people to do the same. While I'm sad to say that such recommendations will hurt the devs, that's an issue for Props to work out. Customers should not have to keep being financially penalized due to their oversights.

I cannot see myself paying (up to) double of what I should be paying in the present economic climate.



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