AD 480 Reverb is in the shop!

[lowpryo]

this debate is useless. when evaluating REs, here are two valid responses you can have:
"wow, this is good, totally worth the price IMO"
or
"man, this is bad, totally not worth the price IMO"
as a consumer, you are entitled to either opinion. but don't dwell on it, and don't act like your opinion is any more valid than anyone else's. be a consumer, but don't be a preacher.
 
as far as this reverb goes, I agree with the others that say it's like a cheaper alternative to the TSAR. i wish it was out when i was making that purchase decision, but right now i have no need for it. the TSAR is my go-to for larger, longer reverbs and the Uhe-A is my go-to for room reverb. i'm in love with that combo!

[Jagwah]

I'M NOT BITTER!   :comp:

[EnochLight]

AD 480: totally worth it, IMHO, if you don't already own TSAR-1.  That said, I do so... I'll pass.

[ArcoZ]

Tested it deeply.

I own:
TSAR1
Synapse Dr1
RV7000
RV7

Once I tested PRVerb and Uhe that didn't blow my mind at all.

I made the comparison with these reverbs on various sources:
guitars
polysynths
drums
percussion
vocals

1. Sound character of AD480 is different than the others. It has something in low freq that sound like chorus or exagerated ER.

2. The closest reverb to AD is TSAR but it differs when it comes to low freq. That's why on drums TSAR is great  and on AD they are terrible.

3. On guitars AD shines - simply the best. On polysynths the advantages are not that obvious. On drums it sounds awful. On percussion it shines. Vocals are the most difficult to evaluate, AD is replacable IMHO.

4.Quite far from 480 Lexicon sound in terms of quality but has its own strenghts.

Price is too high in my opinion so I'll wait for the sales.
I don't think at this price the developer will succeed.
Fair price is 39 Euros.

[selig]

Tested it deeply.

I own:
TSAR1
Synapse Dr1
RV7000
RV7

Once I tested PRVerb and Uhe that didn't blow my mind at all.

I made the comparison with these reverbs on various sources:
guitars
polysynths
drums
percussion
vocals

1. Sound character of AD480 is different than the others. It has something in low freq that sound like chorus or exagerated ER.

2. The closest reverb to AD is TSAR but it differs when it comes to low freq. That's why on drums TSAR is great  and on AD they are terrible.

3. On guitars AD shines - simply the best. On polysynths the advantages are not that obvious. On drums it sounds awful. On percussion it shines. Vocals are the most difficult to evaluate, AD is replacable IMHO.

4.Quite far from 480 Lexicon sound in terms of quality but has its own strenghts.

Price is too high in my opinion so I'll wait for the sales.
I don't think at this price the developer will succeed.
Fair price is 39 Euros.

I eventually found many awesome drum settings - what settings did you use on drums that were so awful? I don't agree about the low end differences between AD and TSAR on drums, unless maybe you're speaking about a specific preset? In fact I'm leaning more towards the AD on drums and less towards TSAR the more I work with AD. As far as low end goes, its SUPER easy to tweak both the low filter and the low damping on AD, something TSAR sadly lacks on both counts IMO.

At first I didn't like many of the small room presets with AD, preferring the mid to long decay sounds. But once I lowered the level quite a bit, things started to sound far more usable. The AD's level seems quite a bit hotter than the RV7000, TSAR-1, and Ubik A when I compared them - I had to lower the send by almost 6 dB to make them match IIRC.

So when listening to the shorter sounds with AD as an insert, I found it better to lower the mix to "dry" then slowly bring it back in until it sounded right (which often turned out to be MUCH lower than the preset level). For example, the Drum Room preset sounds much better to me when the mix is lowered to .100 or lower (it's saved at .207). In many cases raising the Dimension control (my favorite!) and lowering the mix made HUGE improvements in the small room sounds.

[ArcoZ]

Tested it deeply.

I own:
TSAR1
Synapse Dr1
RV7000
RV7

Once I tested PRVerb and Uhe that didn't blow my mind at all.

I made the comparison with these reverbs on various sources:
guitars
polysynths
drums
percussion
vocals

1. Sound character of AD480 is different than the others. It has something in low freq that sound like chorus or exagerated ER.

2. The closest reverb to AD is TSAR but it differs when it comes to low freq. That's why on drums TSAR is great  and on AD they are terrible.

3. On guitars AD shines - simply the best. On polysynths the advantages are not that obvious. On drums it sounds awful. On percussion it shines. Vocals are the most difficult to evaluate, AD is replacable IMHO.

4.Quite far from 480 Lexicon sound in terms of quality but has its own strenghts.

Price is too high in my opinion so I'll wait for the sales.
I don't think at this price the developer will succeed.
Fair price is 39 Euros.

I eventually found many awesome drum settings - what settings did you use on drums that were so awful? I don't agree about the low end differences between AD and TSAR on drums, unless maybe you're speaking about a specific preset? In fact I'm leaning more towards the AD on drums and less towards TSAR the more I work with AD. As far as low end goes, its SUPER easy to tweak both the low filter and the low damping on AD, something TSAR sadly lacks on both counts IMO.

At first I didn't like many of the small room presets with AD, preferring the mid to long decay sounds. But once I lowered the level quite a bit, things started to sound far more usable. The AD's level seems quite a bit hotter than the RV7000, TSAR-1, and Ubik A when I compared them - I had to lower the send by almost 6 dB to make them match IIRC.

So when listening to the shorter sounds with AD as an insert, I found it better to lower the mix to "dry" then slowly bring it back in until it sounded right (which often turned out to be MUCH lower than the preset level). For example, the Drum Room preset sounds much better to me when the mix is lowered to .100 or lower (it's saved at .207). In many cases raising the Dimension control (my favorite!) and lowering the mix made HUGE improvements in the small room sounds.

Sure you can filter lows BUT .... then AD loses its special character. With lows cut it's becoming average room maker. It is my honest opinion. Your view may be different.

[bsp]

I evaluated the AD480 this evening. I already have the TSAR-1 and Uhbik-A REs so I thought I'd be pretty much covered on the reverb front.

What makes the AD480 unique is that it does very short reverbs very well, e.g. to thicken the sound without adding obvious reverb.

What finally made me _buy_ this RE are the long metallic sounds you get when you set size/dim very low and the damp levels close to 0db.

You get into a sonic territory that is similar to what you hear in the "Hannibal" TV series (mostly atmospheric drum sounds).

The "Metallic Resonance" and "Colored Chamber" presets are good starting points for this.

Try feeding some Republik sounds into it (also a very nice RE, definitely worth its price, IMHO)

[gak]

My thanks to the people who have demoed it and given opinions  

[selig]

Tested it deeply.

I own:
TSAR1
Synapse Dr1
RV7000
RV7

Once I tested PRVerb and Uhe that didn't blow my mind at all.

I made the comparison with these reverbs on various sources:
guitars
polysynths
drums
percussion
vocals

1. Sound character of AD480 is different than the others. It has something in low freq that sound like chorus or exagerated ER.

2. The closest reverb to AD is TSAR but it differs when it comes to low freq. That's why on drums TSAR is great  and on AD they are terrible.

3. On guitars AD shines - simply the best. On polysynths the advantages are not that obvious. On drums it sounds awful. On percussion it shines. Vocals are the most difficult to evaluate, AD is replacable IMHO.

4.Quite far from 480 Lexicon sound in terms of quality but has its own strenghts.

Price is too high in my opinion so I'll wait for the sales.
I don't think at this price the developer will succeed.
Fair price is 39 Euros.

I eventually found many awesome drum settings - what settings did you use on drums that were so awful? I don't agree about the low end differences between AD and TSAR on drums, unless maybe you're speaking about a specific preset? In fact I'm leaning more towards the AD on drums and less towards TSAR the more I work with AD. As far as low end goes, its SUPER easy to tweak both the low filter and the low damping on AD, something TSAR sadly lacks on both counts IMO.

At first I didn't like many of the small room presets with AD, preferring the mid to long decay sounds. But once I lowered the level quite a bit, things started to sound far more usable. The AD's level seems quite a bit hotter than the RV7000, TSAR-1, and Ubik A when I compared them - I had to lower the send by almost 6 dB to make them match IIRC.

So when listening to the shorter sounds with AD as an insert, I found it better to lower the mix to "dry" then slowly bring it back in until it sounded right (which often turned out to be MUCH lower than the preset level). For example, the Drum Room preset sounds much better to me when the mix is lowered to .100 or lower (it's saved at .207). In many cases raising the Dimension control (my favorite!) and lowering the mix made HUGE improvements in the small room sounds.

Sure you can filter lows BUT .... then AD loses its special character. With lows cut it's becoming average room maker. It is my honest opinion. Your view may be different.

For me it's more about low end damping, which I like being able to control (and this is totally impossible to control in TSAR). You can add filters to any device in Reason, but you can't add damping! 

I mentioned this fact to address the person who didn't like the low end in AD - my point being that with AD you can change it (unlike other reverbs). Nowhere did I suggest cutting lows was a solution to any problem here!

[selig]

this debate is useless. when evaluating REs, here are two valid responses you can have:
"wow, this is good, totally worth the price IMO"
or
"man, this is bad, totally not worth the price IMO"
as a consumer, you are entitled to either opinion. but don't dwell on it, and don't act like your opinion is any more valid than anyone else's. be a consumer, but don't be a preacher.
 
as far as this reverb goes, I agree with the others that say it's like a cheaper alternative to the TSAR. i wish it was out when i was making that purchase decision, but right now i have no need for it. the TSAR is my go-to for larger, longer reverbs and the Uhe-A is my go-to for room reverb. i'm in love with that combo!

 
Yet you, by this comment are adding to the 'debate'. Are you not?
I do not see it as a debate. I see it as a select one or two who want to silence others. ( so very balanced ) If a person shares their view and they are told they are not to express it, then the original poster has every right to respond in kind in their defense towards what is ridiculous behaviour.
If anything gets the hair on my back up its self entitled forum thought police with an exaggerated sense of influence.

So expect my responses to continue in this 'debate' as long as I am being told I am not to express dissenting opinion on a particular product.

Also, who has given you authority to decide what others can and can not discuss?

( this goes to Benedict and anyone else seeking to stifle opinion. )

To everyone:
Let's not start calling anyone out here, and let's not go all "citizens arrest" either, please (Andy Griffith reference, anyone?).

@ dannyF: I agree there's no point is debating an artistic preference, which is what I believe you were saying, and I would hope this would be clear to everyone. Let's leave it there and move forward.

I'd also like to suggest to lowprio that there are MANY shades of grey here, and it's not just a black or white "love it or leave it" situation. There are many who may be on the fence one way or another, and for whom a discussion like this can help them know what to look for to further aid their decision.

My opinion about this device has already changed once - let's have fun and also leave room for our own opinions to change, which is to say let's all keep an open mind here. There is no "perfect" reverb, so there will of course be many here that don't like this device, as well as many that do.

Agree to disagree if you have to, but don't stop talking to each other!

[lowpryo]

I'd also like to suggest to lowprio that there are MANY shades of grey here, and it's not just a black or white "love it or leave it" situation. There are many who may be on the fence one way or another, and for whom a discussion like this can help them know what to look for to further aid their decision.

 
I agree with you. while my post listed two opinions, I intentionally worded it as to not imply that those are the only two possible opinions. I just saw a debate that was getting heated, and while I understand people are passionate about their RE quality and price, the tone was getting more personal and spiteful. I was just trying to quell the hate. I guess my post just further ruffled some feathers though so I'm gonna back down.

woo reverb

[Benedict]

This was posted before Selig started to Moderate. I may use a lot more words but I want the same outcome and will even delete if requested.

this debate is useless. when evaluating REs, here are two valid responses you can have:
"wow, this is good, totally worth the price IMO"
or
"man, this is bad, totally not worth the price IMO"
as a consumer, you are entitled to either opinion. but don't dwell on it, and don't act like your opinion is any more valid than anyone else's. be a consumer, but don't be a preacher.
 
as far as this reverb goes, I agree with the others that say it's like a cheaper alternative to the TSAR. i wish it was out when i was making that purchase decision, but right now i have no need for it. the TSAR is my go-to for larger, longer reverbs and the Uhe-A is my go-to for room reverb. i'm in love with that combo!

 
Yet you, by this comment are adding to the 'debate'. Are you not?
I do not see it as a debate. I see it as a select one or two who want to silence others. ( so very balanced ) If a person shares their view and they are told they are not to express it, then the original poster has every right to respond in kind in their defense towards what is ridiculous behaviour.
If anything gets the hair on my back up its self entitled forum thought police with an exaggerated sense of influence.

So expect my responses to continue in this 'debate' as long as I am being told I am not to express dissenting opinion on a particular product.

Also, who has given you authority to decide what others can and can not discuss?

( this goes to Benedict and anyone else seeking to stifle opinion. )

You will note that at no time have I named anyone here. My statements have been generalized and attempting to deal with attacks around price and quality which clearly I and others find offensive. To respond as you do with suggestions that anyone who questions your feelings is stepping on your freedom is not in keeping with your own alleged defence. Look at it this way:

If it were my feeling to take a dump in the middle of your lounge room. Would it be ok to do it? If I did and you took offence, would it be an acceptable defense for me to attack you and act like you were being some sort of Poop Nazi - therefore making it appear wrong for you to be upset at the initial offence of my pooping on your rug?

No on all counts. I did not, nor will I ever poop in your room. Trying to allege that in a backhand manner merely makes me angry. Especially seeing the facts are clearly proven that price is in fact too low in most cases to sustain the effort in a commercially successful manner so they are doing this for love of the thing.

Now opinions are welcome in any space. They are good for the human race, but only so long as they add something of value i.e. they build. Sadly the attacks on developers which aim to get their works for less return are completely destructive. Again, put yourself in the position of being the guy who spent a month or more making, let's say a new reverb, and when you come to the place where people are talking about it there are people demanding it for far less money and taking the path of denigration to attempt you to feel bad and lower your price. I know you would feel hurt and probably consider abandoning the market (rightly so too). Again I say, not a good outcome for any person who is interested in getting more REs as fewer people making new things is not a building cycle.

On the matter of quality of the plugin. Sure this isn't the prettiest baby on the block but it is a sound device. There is solid evidence here that this is a worthy addition the the reverb offers. If you don't like the sound or don't think it worth it for your situation, that is where you exercise your freedom as I and other are trying to remind you.

I have offered opinion on several devices (not to mention Beta testing and patch creation) and many songs offered up for consideration. I don't pull my punches but in every case I offer constructive advice. This is good but... or, I think that if you did this... I never resort to outright bashing or snide suggestions that someone is a rip off (even in my answer to the Pharell/Thicke/Marvin Gaye thing).

It is about what we are creating, building, delivering to the world. In the last two weeks I have written a whole album. You may not like it but I have built it and will ship it for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. What have you built in the last few weeks?

[selig]

ole album. You may not like it but I have built it and will ship it for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. What have you built in the last few weeks?

Benedict, you are not a normal human - don't expect others to build things every few weeks like you do! 

BTW, pissing contests are never as fun to watch as they are to participate in…

[lowpryo]

ole album. You may not like it but I have built it and will ship it for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. What have you built in the last few weeks?

Benedict, you are not a normal human - don't expect others to build things every few weeks like you do! 

BTW, pissing contests are never as fun to watch as they are to participate in…

 
this calls for the Selig DePisser

[Benedict]

ole album. You may not like it but I have built it and will ship it for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. What have you built in the last few weeks?

Benedict, you are not a normal human - don't expect others to build things every few weeks like you do! 

BTW, pissing contests are never as fun to watch as they are to participate in…

 
this calls for the Selig DePisser

Funny on both counts. 

I agree.

[JoshuaPhilgarlic]

Well, a five-stars-rating doesn't seem too bad for an RE that reportedly is "overpriced" and sounds "not as good as Tsar" .

[selig]

ole album. You may not like it but I have built it and will ship it for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. What have you built in the last few weeks?

Benedict, you are not a normal human - don't expect others to build things every few weeks like you do! 

BTW, pissing contests are never as fun to watch as they are to participate in…

 
this calls for the Selig DePisser

Funny on both counts. 

I agree.

Just trying to keep it light, because I believe this kind of interplay is important for a healthy forum (as long as it's as civil as possible). The last thing I'd want is for someone (anyone really) to feel like they can't express a counter opinion in this forum. IMO we'd more likely die a quicker death if we (moderators) allow that state of mind to take root than if we were to let trolls run rampant!

[selig]

This was posted before Selig started to Moderate. I may use a lot more words but I want the same outcome and will even delete if requested.

this debate is useless. when evaluating REs, here are two valid responses you can have:
"wow, this is good, totally worth the price IMO"
or
"man, this is bad, totally not worth the price IMO"
as a consumer, you are entitled to either opinion. but don't dwell on it, and don't act like your opinion is any more valid than anyone else's. be a consumer, but don't be a preacher.
 
as far as this reverb goes, I agree with the others that say it's like a cheaper alternative to the TSAR. i wish it was out when i was making that purchase decision, but right now i have no need for it. the TSAR is my go-to for larger, longer reverbs and the Uhe-A is my go-to for room reverb. i'm in love with that combo!

 
Yet you, by this comment are adding to the 'debate'. Are you not?
I do not see it as a debate. I see it as a select one or two who want to silence others. ( so very balanced ) If a person shares their view and they are told they are not to express it, then the original poster has every right to respond in kind in their defense towards what is ridiculous behaviour.
If anything gets the hair on my back up its self entitled forum thought police with an exaggerated sense of influence.

So expect my responses to continue in this 'debate' as long as I am being told I am not to express dissenting opinion on a particular product.

Also, who has given you authority to decide what others can and can not discuss?

( this goes to Benedict and anyone else seeking to stifle opinion. )

You will note that at no time have I named anyone here. My statements have been generalized and attempting to deal with attacks around price and quality which clearly I and others find offensive. To respond as you do with suggestions that anyone who questions your feelings is stepping on your freedom is not in keeping with your own alleged defence. Look at it this way:

If it were my feeling to take a dump in the middle of your lounge room. Would it be ok to do it? If I did and you took offence, would it be an acceptable defense for me to attack you and act like you were being some sort of Poop Nazi - therefore making it appear wrong for you to be upset at the initial offence of my pooping on your rug?

No on all counts. I did not, nor will I ever poop in your room. Trying to allege that in a backhand manner merely makes me angry. Especially seeing the facts are clearly proven that price is in fact too low in most cases to sustain the effort in a commercially successful manner so they are doing this for love of the thing.

Now opinions are welcome in any space. They are good for the human race, but only so long as they add something of value i.e. they build. Sadly the attacks on developers which aim to get their works for less return are completely destructive. Again, put yourself in the position of being the guy who spent a month or more making, let's say a new reverb, and when you come to the place where people are talking about it there are people demanding it for far less money and taking the path of denigration to attempt you to feel bad and lower your price. I know you would feel hurt and probably consider abandoning the market (rightly so too). Again I say, not a good outcome for any person who is interested in getting more REs as fewer people making new things is not a building cycle.

On the matter of quality of the plugin. Sure this isn't the prettiest baby on the block but it is a

sound

device. There is solid evidence here that this is a worthy addition the the reverb offers. If you don't like the sound or don't think it worth it for your situation, that is where you exercise your freedom as I and other are trying to remind you.

I have offered opinion on several devices (not to mention Beta testing and patch creation) and many songs offered up for consideration. I don't pull my punches but in every case I offer constructive advice. This is good but... or, I think that if you did this... I never resort to outright bashing or snide suggestions that someone is a rip off (even in my answer to the Pharell/Thicke/Marvin Gaye thing).

It is about what we are creating, building, delivering to the world. In the last two weeks I have written a whole album. You may not like it but I have built it and will ship it for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. What have you built in the last few weeks?

 
Let me make this clear for you. *

You* WILL NOT control how I express myself here

.
Nor will you pull me into your narrative.
 

Again, you may think a pissing contest is fun for us all to watch, but really, it's not. REALLY.
No hard feelings, please move on!

[selig]

I care not for how this appears to anyone. Nor are attempts at shaming dignified.
I have been ready to move on since the beginning. I will always defend myself as long as attempts are made to control my speech. 
Once Benedict ceases these efforts at control, then I will cease my defence.
For every word spoken against another it is only fair and right that each word is held to accountability, that those spoken against are allowed to speak in their own defence. Please do not deny me this by playing the any card that attempts to characterize my defence as 'pissing contest'  / 'not moving on' or any other negative term.

I expect everyone here to act respectfully REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANYONE ELSE IS DOING. If you can't abide by that and take responsibility for your own actions, then I will have to ask you to leave.

At present you are basically saying "But Benedict started it", and I'm basically saying "I don't care who started it, I'm the one who is going to end it". Or not, your choice.

Hope I've been clear on this subject, and I hope everyone can simply respect each other and not let another's actions dictate their responses here.

Think and act for yourselves, people, and do so with respect to everyone else here - the two are NOT mutually exclusive!

[JoshuaPhilgarlic]

Could you please stop 1) this kindergarten and 2) to *quote* the whole shit again? I mean this one...

This was posted before Selig started to Moderate. I may use a lot more words but I want the same outcome and will even delete if requested.

this debate is useless. when evaluating REs, here are two valid responses you can have:
"wow, this is good, totally worth the price IMO"
or
"man, this is bad, totally not worth the price IMO"
as a consumer, you are entitled to either opinion. but don't dwell on it, and don't act like your opinion is any more valid than anyone else's. be a consumer, but don't be a preacher.
 
as far as this reverb goes, I agree with the others that say it's like a cheaper alternative to the TSAR. i wish it was out when i was making that purchase decision, but right now i have no need for it. the TSAR is my go-to for larger, longer reverbs and the Uhe-A is my go-to for room reverb. i'm in love with that combo!

 
Yet you, by this comment are adding to the 'debate'. Are you not?
I do not see it as a debate. I see it as a select one or two who want to silence others. ( so very balanced ) If a person shares their view and they are told they are not to express it, then the original poster has every right to respond in kind in their defense towards what is ridiculous behaviour.
If anything gets the hair on my back up its self entitled forum thought police with an exaggerated sense of influence.

So expect my responses to continue in this 'debate' as long as I am being told I am not to express dissenting opinion on a particular product.

Also, who has given you authority to decide what others can and can not discuss?

( this goes to Benedict and anyone else seeking to stifle opinion. )

You will note that at no time have I named anyone here. My statements have been generalized and attempting to deal with attacks around price and quality which clearly I and others find offensive. To respond as you do with suggestions that anyone who questions your feelings is stepping on your freedom is not in keeping with your own alleged defence. Look at it this way:

If it were my feeling to take a dump in the middle of your lounge room. Would it be ok to do it? If I did and you took offence, would it be an acceptable defense for me to attack you and act like you were being some sort of Poop Nazi - therefore making it appear wrong for you to be upset at the initial offence of my pooping on your rug?

No on all counts. I did not, nor will I ever poop in your room. Trying to allege that in a backhand manner merely makes me angry. Especially seeing the facts are clearly proven that price is in fact too low in most cases to sustain the effort in a commercially successful manner so they are doing this for love of the thing.

Now opinions are welcome in any space. They are good for the human race, but only so long as they add something of value i.e. they build. Sadly the attacks on developers which aim to get their works for less return are completely destructive. Again, put yourself in the position of being the guy who spent a month or more making, let's say a new reverb, and when you come to the place where people are talking about it there are people demanding it for far less money and taking the path of denigration to attempt you to feel bad and lower your price. I know you would feel hurt and probably consider abandoning the market (rightly so too). Again I say, not a good outcome for any person who is interested in getting more REs as fewer people making new things is not a building cycle.

On the matter of quality of the plugin. Sure this isn't the prettiest baby on the block but it is a

sound

device. There is solid evidence here that this is a worthy addition the the reverb offers. If you don't like the sound or don't think it worth it for your situation, that is where you exercise your freedom as I and other are trying to remind you.

I have offered opinion on several devices (not to mention Beta testing and patch creation) and many songs offered up for consideration. I don't pull my punches but in every case I offer constructive advice. This is good but... or, I think that if you did this... I never resort to outright bashing or snide suggestions that someone is a rip off (even in my answer to the Pharell/Thicke/Marvin Gaye thing).

It is about what we are creating, building, delivering to the world. In the last two weeks I have written a whole album. You may not like it but I have built it and will ship it for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. What have you built in the last few weeks?

 
Let me make this clear for you. *

You* WILL NOT control how I express myself here

.
Nor will you pull me into your narrative.
 

Again, you may think a pissing contest is fun for us all to watch, but really, it's not. REALLY.
No hard feelings, please move on!

I care not for how this appears to anyone. Nor are attempts at shaming dignified.

I have been ready to move on since the beginning.

I will always defend myself as long as attempts are made to control my speech. 
Once Benedict ceases these efforts at control, then I will cease my defence.
For every word spoken against another it is only fair and right that each word is held to accountability, that those spoken against are allowed to speak in their own defence. Please do not deny me this by playing the any card that attempts to characterize my defence as 'pissing contest'  / 'not moving on' or any other negative term.

I expect everyone here to act respectfully REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANYONE ELSE IS DOING. If you can't abide by that and take responsibility for your own actions, then I will have to ask you to leave.

At present you are basically saying "But Benedict started it", and I'm basically saying "I don't care who started it, I'm the one who is going to end it". Or not, your choice.

Hope I've been clear on this subject, and I hope everyone can simply respect each other and not let another's actions dictate their responses here.

Think and act for yourselves, people, and do so with respect to everyone else here - the two are NOT mutually exclusive!

Return to the topic, damned!!!

P.S.: Not against you, Selig, but I'm tired of dannyF's "I've a right to complain, and there's censorship anywhere" BS!

[selig]

Could you please stop 1) this kindergarten and 2) to *quote* the whole shit again? I mean this one...

Point taken.

[gak]

My goodness. And I got scolded for what I said?

[kloeckno]

Wait, were we talking about a Reverb effect or the Civil Rights Movement???

[eusti]

I fear this thread won't end well. :frown:

D.

[Benedict]

I feared that too many pages ago and tried to stop the train wreck.

I am sorry Danny that you are as upset as you are. I have never meant you or anyone here ill will (or even suggested any form of control over what is shared).

Let's keep this a positive place for all.

:s0801: