AD 480 Reverb is in the shop!

[JoshuaPhilgarlic]

More shaming tactics. It will not work.
Which tactics?? Sounds like conspiracy theory to me .

I will defend against each word and each negative characterization.

Well, as long as it's not life-threatening you should perhaps find the point where it's not worth to argue any longer and return to the topic .

As I have the right to.

Aaaah, you know, your freedom lasts as long as it doesn't affect other people's freedom. So, this thread primarily started to discuss AD 480. You stated that you find this RE too expensive. That's your opinion and I respect it even though I don't agree. Irrespectible of what happened meanwhile (I didn't read the whole thread), you still claim your right to defend yourself even though the people really interested in this topic (AD 480 - just as a reminder!) are not at all interested in your personal feelings - they just want to return to the topic and discuss AD 480 itself!

I have lots of energy.
And to think all this because I disagreed with the price of this RE. PATHETIC.
I now expect you the jackals to come out. Its human nature in these situations like a pack of weaklings you seek out to destroy the strong.
Come on out you weaklings.
I will take you all on and more.

I think you're living in your own fantasy world, right ? You are the hero and we are the Orks??

[selig]

 
I am not complaining I am defending.
Keep speaking against me and I will keep defending myself. 
If you use words against me, I will use them in my own defense.
Everyone should be allowed the forum to respond to their accusers.

As long as you keep it civil, you can defend yourself until the cows come home for all I care. Otherwise, an eye for an eye and everyone goes blind.

Please also remember that NO ONE here want's to witness anyone's personal back and forth pissing contest, and if attacks are being continually met with counter attacks in a thread then eventually both parties will be banned. I trust we are a LONG way from anything like that happening.

Bottom line everyone, keep it civil.

[childofsaturn]

Huh. Came here to read about AD 480 Reverb. I feel like I just walked in on a bar fight. Kinda looking forward to the inevitable dismissal of the obvious tyrant. Selig, you're a good man and far more patient than me. I applaud your integrity and diplomatic measures.

[dvdrtldg]

Jesus christ dannyF, do you have any idea what a tool you're being

[joeyluck]

To EVERYONE's defense...

This thread is after all "AD 480 Reverb is in the shop!"
Which warrants opinions based on it's presence in the shop—including price.

I disagree with those opinions, but they are opinions about the device and it does relate pretty well with thread subject. However, pulling other devices into the conversation to argue about 'pricing in general' is definitely off topic. And going off topic doesn't need to be protected as freedom of speech in the forums. I think most can agree on that.

So, how about somebody just start a new thread with some of the more in-depth reviews from here?  And this one which is about "AD 480 is in the shop" can remain as a thread about the device and it being released in the shop...

This became a habit in the PUF... Titles like "Such and such is in the shop" becomes the official thread forever. I do find it funny sometimes how lean we try to run things. And that's great. But it's a bit confusing when the thread pops up months down the line that "AD 480 is in the shop!" And I'll be like, "What? Ohhhhh..."

[Jagwah]

I feel for DannyF here as he and I were both on the receiving end of some sly attacks which for some reason were ready to be defended.
@ Selig, please be careful in future when telling someone to move on, please make sure that person has had the right to defend themselves and you are not jumping in at such an opportunistic moment to deny that.

Like it or not folks, however much you dislike it, anyone here is entitled to their opinions about pricing on anything, regardless of how close it hits home. Claiming it as being destructive or teaming up and jumping on someone for their opinion about pricing is not simply debating the topic, it is one of many forms of censorship and also an attempt at baiting. You guys need to watch that, so we are all on par here. Otherwise update the rules so that talking about RE prices isn't allowed and watch what that does to a once open forum.

[normen]

I feel for DannyF here as he and I were both on the receiving end of some sly attacks which for some reason were ready to be defended.
@ Selig, please be careful in future when telling someone to move on, please make sure that person has had the right to defend themselves and you are not jumping in at such an opportunistic moment to deny that.

Like it or not folks, however much you dislike it, anyone here is entitled to their opinions about pricing on anything, regardless of how close it hits home. Claiming it as being destructive or teaming up and jumping on someone for their opinion about pricing is not simply debating the topic, it is one of many forms of censorship and also an attempt at baiting. You guys need to watch that, so we are all on par here. Otherwise update the rules so that talking about RE prices isn't allowed and watch what that does to a once open forum.

Thing is that repeating your own point about the matter is fine. Jumping from that to accusations of personal attacks is pointless and the thing thats being "silenced" here. A bunch of people saying "yeah, I agree, I don't see why people complain" is fine and its not people "jumping on" somebody. Them saying "you need to shut up" is not. Same its fine when you say "I still think its overpriced" but not if you say "you try to silence me and take away my freedom of speech", because that never happened.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you can verbally abuse anyone who doesn't agree with you, it means that you can express any opinion in a civilized manner, EVEN IF that opinion offends somebody.

[Jagwah]

...Same its fine when you say "I still think its overpriced" but not if you say "you try to silence me and take away my freedom of speech", because that never happened.

Being accused of 'getting back to destructive PUF territory' (which nobody here wants), saying that one's opinions are 'useless feelings of being deprived,' or that 'one wants the world to bend to me' for simply voicing my opinion on price is in my opinion an attempt at silencing and also baiting.

[normen]

Being accused of 'getting back to destructive PUF territory' (which nobody here wants), saying that one's opinions are 'useless feelings of being deprived,' or that 'one wants the world to bend to me' for simply voicing my opinion on price is in my opinion an attempt at silencing and also baiting.

No its not, you have to give them the same option to voice their opinion you demand for yourself. None of these things were directed at you directly, you chose to take this stance and you chose to make it personal attacks also against these opinions.

[Arsenic]

Huh. Came here to read about AD 480 Reverb.

 

[Jagwah]

No its not, you have to give them the same option to voice their opinion you demand for yourself. None of these things were directed at you directly, you chose to take this stance and you chose to make it personal attacks also against these opinions.

They weren't directed at me directly because of the way they were cleverly worded, they were open to be directed at anyone and there is only two people in this thread it was obviously directed at. If we disagree on this that's fine with me, you have made your point.

[gullum]

took me a little while but I've been doing other things but the Remote map template is in my drop box

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdmbeyrw2q07r ... b.txt?dl=0  

[selig]

@ Selig, please be careful in future when telling someone to move on, please make sure that person has had the right to defend themselves and you are not jumping in at such an opportunistic moment to deny that.

@jagwah - please PM any mod if you see any personal attacks or violations in the rules here - we can't be everywhere all the time!

Allow me to make a few points perfectly clear here in case they were not clear in the past. 

There's a big difference IMO between attacking your attacker and "defending" your point. Hopefully I'm being perfectly clear here, but if not, read on.

We don't allow attacks or counter attacks. Doesn't matter in the least who "started it". 

BUT…if you are feeling the need to defend "yourself", then you must be feeling personally attacked in some way, and that is something to report to the mods. Remember that if you "counter attack" here with another personal attack or anything that's not "civil", even if you claim you are "defending yourself", you TOO are breaking the forum rules. It couldn't be any simpler than that.

I ask everyone here to respect the fact that there are others here that DO NOT want to read anyone's aggressive posturing, or endure their verbal pissing contests in ANY way, shape, or form, period. We will not tolerate back and forth bickering etc. which is what I was seeing develop here.

This IMO is the bitter fruit of allowing folks to defend "themselves" instead of encouraging everyone to stick to defending their "position" instead.

Bottom line:
Drop the personal attacks, keep it 100 (and civil), but whatever you do please don't stop talking to each other! 

This is not fight club, this is about music and Reason - let's keep it that way, please.
This has been a public service announcement.

[Gorilla Texas]

Could you

please

stop 1) this kindergarten and 2) to *quote* the whole shit again? I mean this one...

This was posted before Selig started to Moderate. I may use a lot more words but I want the same outcome and will even delete if requested.

this debate is useless. when evaluating REs, here are two valid responses you can have:
"wow, this is good, totally worth the price IMO"
or
"man, this is bad, totally not worth the price IMO"
as a consumer, you are entitled to either opinion. but don't dwell on it, and don't act like your opinion is any more valid than anyone else's. be a consumer, but don't be a preacher.
 
as far as this reverb goes, I agree with the others that say it's like a cheaper alternative to the TSAR. i wish it was out when i was making that purchase decision, but right now i have no need for it. the TSAR is my go-to for larger, longer reverbs and the Uhe-A is my go-to for room reverb. i'm in love with that combo!

 
Yet you, by this comment are adding to the 'debate'. Are you not?
I do not see it as a debate. I see it as a select one or two who want to silence others. ( so very balanced ) If a person shares their view and they are told they are not to express it, then the original poster has every right to respond in kind in their defense towards what is ridiculous behaviour.
If anything gets the hair on my back up its self entitled forum thought police with an exaggerated sense of influence.

So expect my responses to continue in this 'debate' as long as I am being told I am not to express dissenting opinion on a particular product.

Also, who has given you authority to decide what others can and can not discuss?

( this goes to Benedict and anyone else seeking to stifle opinion. )

You will note that at no time have I named anyone here. My statements have been generalized and attempting to deal with attacks around price and quality which clearly I and others find offensive. To respond as you do with suggestions that anyone who questions your feelings is stepping on your freedom is not in keeping with your own alleged defence. Look at it this way:

If it were my feeling to take a dump in the middle of your lounge room. Would it be ok to do it? If I did and you took offence, would it be an acceptable defense for me to attack you and act like you were being some sort of Poop Nazi - therefore making it appear wrong for you to be upset at the initial offence of my pooping on your rug?

No on all counts. I did not, nor will I ever poop in your room. Trying to allege that in a backhand manner merely makes me angry. Especially seeing the facts are clearly proven that price is in fact too low in most cases to sustain the effort in a commercially successful manner so they are doing this for love of the thing.

Now opinions are welcome in any space. They are good for the human race, but only so long as they add something of value i.e. they build. Sadly the attacks on developers which aim to get their works for less return are completely destructive. Again, put yourself in the position of being the guy who spent a month or more making, let's say a new reverb, and when you come to the place where people are talking about it there are people demanding it for far less money and taking the path of denigration to attempt you to feel bad and lower your price. I know you would feel hurt and probably consider abandoning the market (rightly so too). Again I say, not a good outcome for any person who is interested in getting more REs as fewer people making new things is not a building cycle.

On the matter of quality of the plugin. Sure this isn't the prettiest baby on the block but it is a

sound

device. There is solid evidence here that this is a worthy addition the the reverb offers. If you don't like the sound or don't think it worth it for your situation, that is where you exercise your freedom as I and other are trying to remind you.

I have offered opinion on several devices (not to mention Beta testing and patch creation) and many songs offered up for consideration. I don't pull my punches but in every case I offer constructive advice. This is good but... or, I think that if you did this... I never resort to outright bashing or snide suggestions that someone is a rip off (even in my answer to the Pharell/Thicke/Marvin Gaye thing).

It is about what we are creating, building, delivering to the world. In the last two weeks I have written a whole album. You may not like it but I have built it and will ship it for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. What have you built in the last few weeks?

 
Let me make this clear for you. *

You* WILL NOT control how I express myself here

.
Nor will you pull me into your narrative.
 

Again, you may think a pissing contest is fun for us all to watch, but really, it's not. REALLY.
No hard feelings, please move on!

I care not for how this appears to anyone. Nor are attempts at shaming dignified.

I have been ready to move on since the beginning.

I will always defend myself as long as attempts are made to control my speech. 
Once Benedict ceases these efforts at control, then I will cease my defence.
For every word spoken against another it is only fair and right that each word is held to accountability, that those spoken against are allowed to speak in their own defence. Please do not deny me this by playing the any card that attempts to characterize my defence as 'pissing contest'  / 'not moving on' or any other negative term.

I expect everyone here to act respectfully REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANYONE ELSE IS DOING. If you can't abide by that and take responsibility for your own actions, then I will have to ask you to leave.

At present you are basically saying "But Benedict started it", and I'm basically saying "I don't care who started it, I'm the one who is going to end it". Or not, your choice.

Hope I've been clear on this subject, and I hope everyone can simply respect each other and not let another's actions dictate their responses here.

Think and act for yourselves, people, and do so with respect to everyone else here - the two are NOT mutually exclusive!

Return to the topic, damned!!!

P.S.: Not against you, Selig, but I'm tired of dannyF's "

I've a right to complain, and there's censorship anywhere

" BS!

 

I am not complaining I am defending.

Keep speaking against me and I will keep defending myself. 
If you use words against me, I will use them in my own defense.

Everyone should be allowed the forum to respond to their accusers.

I agree with you as Ive said before Selig is not neutral and will always defend passive attacks. Benedict should've just stayed on topic instead of complaining about other users. Selig is the worst mod on this forum and his continually jumping in threads unnecessarily to defend those who share his views is bringing the forum down. It's funny no other mod seems to feel like these threads requires their attention. He's unfair and really just wants to silence those with opposing views.       

[Gorilla Texas]

I think one of the issues here is that most people haven't developed a product so they have no sense of the time that goes into making something worth buying. As a result time is not given a sense of value. Sure when they go to work they expect to get about $3,000 a month for their time, but when home, and playing, then time has no value.

Let's say it takes about a month of work to make a simple plugin, that makes the simple cost $3,000 just to break even with what you would have gotten in a normal job. But making a product is specialist work with specialist skills so really it is fairer to call that development time $5,000+.

Assuming the same sale costs between iPad and Reason are similar (not too far off, I'm sure) then that is $4.50 per $9. You need a thousand people to buy your product before you even break even. You need 2,000 people to buy your product to make it remotely worthwhile. That is big numbers. When I made VST I don't think I sold that many units over 4 packs and about the same number of years and that is a bigger market than Reason alone. So in effect I frittered my time away. I had fun and I got some nice feedback but nothing to remotely cover my time and skill.

New reverb. Yay or not yay. Ugly or useful. Use it or don't. Spit in the wind either way for the developer. No one gains from the pointless airing of useless feelings of being deprived.

Maybe we can get back to focusing on what matters here. We are supposed to be musicians not tin-pot anarchists fighting over who pays for coffee whilst we moan about the King.

The point in bold is a personal attack pointblank period! Stop saying our opinions are useless!!! Stop with the passive attacks thats all we want and stay on topic!! Saying our views are useless is off topic!!!

[Djstarski]

I believe the RV7000 is the number all reverb , its the only reverb that has a gate built in and it can also been used for delay purposes . Place a RV7000 in a mix channel and there is a few extra controls to help . imho 

[Jagwah]

@jagwah - please PM any mod if you see any personal attacks or violations in the rules here - we can't be everywhere all the time!

Allow me to make a few points perfectly clear here in case they were not clear in the past. 

There's a big difference IMO between attacking your attacker and "defending" your point. Hopefully I'm being perfectly clear here, but if not, read on.

We don't allow attacks or counter attacks. Doesn't matter in the least who "started it". 

BUT…if you are feeling the need to defend "yourself", then you must be feeling personally attacked in some way, and that is something to report to the mods. Remember that if you "counter attack" here with another personal attack or anything that's not "civil", even if you claim you are "defending yourself", you TOO are breaking the forum rules. It couldn't be any simpler than that.

I ask everyone here to respect the fact that there are others here that DO NOT want to read anyone's aggressive posturing, or endure their verbal pissing contests in ANY way, shape, or form, period. We will not tolerate back and forth bickering etc. which is what I was seeing develop here.

This IMO is the bitter fruit of allowing folks to defend "themselves" instead of encouraging everyone to stick to defending their "position" instead.

Bottom line:
Drop the personal attacks, keep it 100 (and civil), but whatever you do please don't stop talking to each other! 

This is not fight club, this is about music and Reason - let's keep it that way, please.
This has been a public service announcement.

Yes point taken and I respectfully agree and encourage you and other mods to do what you can to keep this forum in good working order.

I learnt a few things from this thread that I didn't know before, they aren't good things, but they are learning experiences so I'm taking that as a positive and moving on.

[submonsterz]

Well I still don't seem to like the reverb for my personal taste .
And I`m not even thinking of a price tag to it in any way.
I`m a sticking to RV7000 and Uhbik A
ohh and the multitude of other nice ones on synths like predator and revival
between them I have a coolio and the gang selection that work well and really nice together .
in fact I think I like my emu cards vst reverb better than anything else I have or used to be honest.
got a good 30seconds verb time to it too .

[PSoames]

I think one of the issues here is that most people haven't developed a product so they have no sense of the time that goes into making something worth buying. As a result time is not given a sense of value. Sure when they go to work they expect to get about $3,000 a month for their time, but when home, and playing, then time has no value.

Let's say it takes about a month of work to make a simple plugin, that makes the simple cost $3,000 just to break even with what you would have gotten in a normal job. But making a product is specialist work with specialist skills so really it is fairer to call that development time $5,000+.

Assuming the same sale costs between iPad and Reason are similar (not too far off, I'm sure) then that is $4.50 per $9. You need a thousand people to buy your product before you even break even. You need 2,000 people to buy your product to make it remotely worthwhile. That is big numbers. When I made VST I don't think I sold that many units over 4 packs and about the same number of years and that is a bigger market than Reason alone. So in effect I frittered my time away. I had fun and I got some nice feedback but nothing to remotely cover my time and skill.

New reverb. Yay or not yay. Ugly or useful. Use it or don't. Spit in the wind either way for the developer. No one gains from the pointless airing of useless feelings of being deprived.

Maybe we can get back to focusing on what matters here. We are supposed to be musicians not tin-pot anarchists fighting over who pays for coffee whilst we moan about the King.

The point in bold is a personal attack pointblank period! Stop saying our opinions are useless!!! Stop with the passive attacks thats all we want and stay on topic!! Saying our views are useless is off topic!!!

So, in line with your dictate to stay on topic and to respect your opinion, how do you find the reverb?

[MrVibehead]

I believe the RV7000 is the number all reverb , its the only reverb that has a gate built in and it can also been used for delay purposes . Place a RV7000 in a mix channel and there is a few extra controls to help . imho 

Yes the RV7000 is an absolutely great Reverb, but this AD 480 delivers really unique sounds, especially on long reverbs for example for drone sounds(combine this with RV7000) etc..
Only sound-wise, for the Reason world, unregarded to it's price: 5 STARS. Only my opinion...

[submonsterz]

Jesus christ dannyF, do you have any idea what a tool you're being

 

Dont make the mistake of believing that I care what you think. 

As far as I am concerned, What I've been doing is calling people out on their passive aggressive ( and now, agressive-aggressive ) behaviour. I don't care how you think you see this.... What would you like me to do ... respond to MY situation through the way YOU see it ( or want me to ) ? That's just not the way life works man.
I assume you don't understand this situation.... but I will restate this as some people aren't getting it : if I am "attacked" on subtle level or otherwise -  I will defend myself.

As far as Selig and the moderation

- I do not have an opinion other than Selig has allowed me to have a voice in defending myself so for that he wins points with me, although at the same time there might be some truth to what Mr44Hz was on about ( ie allowing the subtle remarks against those who don't glorify every new RE ).
Now can we get back on topic, or does someone else feel the need to keep this going?

lol
Don't bait me lmfao hehe .
Danny remember the just sit back and smile .
no attack is worth shizzle unless its in you`re face up close and personal m8.
And words on here never can compare to that ever .

[TheMiles]

Gotta love how this thread unfolds... I know, its kind of a guilty pleasure, but following this thread is better then cinema...

[PSoames]

Gotta love how this thread unfolds... I know, its kind of a guilty pleasure, but following this thread is better then cinema...

I know! I'm trying to watch Inspector Montalbano on the tube, but DannyF keeps editing his last post so my attention is divided!

[PSoames]

You can't pin me down!

Best way to be. Always keep 'em guessing! Change your mind, mood and underpants, regularly.

Ah you were the one who used a pre-edited version of one of my responses. Are you digging in the database for those previous versions or what?

I'm not sure that was me, but I am often mistaken for other people. I've got an extremely average face and an acute generic manner.

Conversely, those people who do know me, often forget they do. Mrs PSoames is especially forgetful.

What is you access level to this forums database?

Absolutely sod all! Really!

I had to beg them to let me in here.

[Grinder One]

Gotta love how this thread unfolds... I know, its kind of a guilty pleasure, but following this thread is better then cinema...

It's all    's fault...he started it :s0225: