AutoTheory RE: Confusing

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Namahs Amrak
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18 Mar 2015

A couple of weeks ago, I also purchased AutoTheory. Having previously trialled it, and not making heads nor tails of it's practical application (user fault, not that of the device), I was loathe to purchase it without comprehending it's usage. Alas, compulsion got the better of me, and I scored a license.

However, I'm none the wiser than I was when I originally trialled it. Any tips or tricks to get started ?

I am specifically interested in playing notes within a chord, but individually - I assume this is the 'strummer' feature. But wiring two(?) devices up as per the manual, I'm still only getting single shots of each note I add to the sequencer, although changing key does in fact alter certain notes to adhere to the chosen mode.

I would love to hear from people that might have been similarly confused by this RE, but have worked it out.

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Majestik Monkey
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18 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:A couple of weeks ago, I also purchased AutoTheory. Having previously trialled it, and not making heads nor tails of it's practical application (user fault, not that of the device), I was loathe to purchase it without comprehending it's usage. Alas, compulsion got the better of me, and I scored a license.

However, I'm none the wiser than I was when I originally trialled it. Any tips or tricks to get started ?

I am specifically interested in playing notes within a chord, but individually - I assume this is the 'strummer' feature. But wiring two(?) devices up as per the manual, I'm still only getting single shots of each note I add to the sequencer, although changing key does in fact alter certain notes to adhere to the chosen mode.

I would love to hear from people that might have been similarly confused by this RE, but have worked it out.
https://youtu.be/hQVnfd3WGyM  :s0230:

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normen
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18 Mar 2015

Its not the strummer feature, you play them an octave above the base notes that select the chord and they come out of the melody(?) outputs. All in all its relatively easy to understand.

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Benedict
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18 Mar 2015

Irony is the better you understand Theory, the better you understand the the RE. Of course the better you understand theory the less you need the RE. Ain't life cruel.

I was a whisker off buying but I got lessons instead.

Break it into three the three sections:

A section of music is generally made up of a chord with a melody above. The root of the melody is generally enhanced with a bass line below. 

Wire a bass to play every Measure and then wire in a synth for your chords and that is it. If you want o a melody then wire up an lead synth to the melody section and choose a note mapping method.

You only need one synth per section. The other outputs are for layering.

If you follow the instructions then it will make sense and it is a good RE bearing in mind the limits of the RE SDK and theory itsllf. If you learn it you will improve your theory and that is a great thing.

:)
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Namahs Amrak
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18 Mar 2015

Hey Benedict - You're on the right track. A big part of the reason I bought AutoTheory was to (perhaps) help me structure chords in my compositions, not particularly for MIDI, and neither particularly for using AutoTheory. Most of my compositions are borne from the guitar, and two-note chords (or three if my base note is on the A string) but they are ALL THE BLOODY SAME note shape. I add colouration with 'leads' as note-at-a-time sections. SOme of it's pretty interesting (well, I think) but to have an understanding, and to execute proper chords in a progression would give my future music so much more power and presence, I feel. I do fool around with various chords in open-tuning playing, which I enjoy very much, but really couldn't say 'wait for this beautiful diminished 7th drop in'.

So really, I would like, and I think the RE is capable of, to pick up my guitar, play a C, G, Am progression, put that into the sequencer, on a clean device such as an ID8 or NNXT, then shift around with AutoTheory's scales and hear some nice variations, which I can then use to go back to my guitar and learn those chords.
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Namahs Amrak
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18 Mar 2015

Hang on, maybe I'm approaching this incorrectly. Does AutoTheory make chords out of single notes in the sequencer, or do I need to put three-note chords into it, before AutoTheory works it's magic ?

There's some gold in your last post by the way, Benedict, relating to theory. Thanks :)
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Majestik Monkey
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18 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:Hang on, maybe I'm approaching this incorrectly. Does AutoTheory make chords out of single notes in the sequencer, or do I need to put three-note chords into it, before AutoTheory works it's magic ?

There's some gold in your last post by the way, Benedict, relating to theory. Thanks :)
 

Audio Theory Makes the Chords & you can Tune each chord to different variations using the Chord Matrix ' that part that looks like a Graffic EQ  :s0221:  . . .  Just mess about with it for a few Hours before trying something serious . . . get the hang of whats happening ! 

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Namahs Amrak
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18 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:Hang on, maybe I'm approaching this incorrectly. Does AutoTheory make chords out of single notes in the sequencer, or do I need to put three-note chords into it, before AutoTheory works it's magic ?

There's some gold in your last post by the way, Benedict, relating to theory. Thanks :)
Majestik Monkey wrote: 

Audio Theory Makes the Chords & you can Tune each chord to different variations using the Chord Matrix ' that part that looks like a Graffic EQ  :s0221:  . . .  Just mess about with it for a few Hours before trying something serious . . . get the hang of whats happening ! 
Mate, I'm normally OK with working out RE's, but most of the are 'plug & play'. I have had some back-panel experience recently (with Euclid & Pulsar) but mostly I'm a front-panel guy, and as such my understanding of what's actually happening with AutoTheory is beyond me.

I wonder if someone can set up a simple file with basic stock instruments + AutoTheory and post the file onto this thread ? Up to Reason 7.1 only, please.

I'm thinking of some 'chords' played (such as the intro to Stairway to Heaven) a note at a time. My terminology is lacking with regards to what you call this.
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Namahs Amrak
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18 Mar 2015

Majestik Monkey wrote:
Audio Theory Makes the Chords
From a single note in the sequencer? ie: one note = one chord, in whatever variation of the major we set the scale to ?
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normen
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18 Mar 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:From a single note in the sequencer? ie: one note = one chord, in whatever variation of the major we set the scale to ?
Thats the point, yes. The base chords for every (normal western) scale are thirds out of that scale stacked on top of the base notes, thats what the RE does when you set a base scale. So for C Major thats C = C E G, D = D F A etc.

For major scales the chords are Major, Minor, Minor, Major, Major, Minor, Diminished. For minor scales its Minor, Diminished, Major, Major, Minor, Minor, Major.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_numeral_analysis

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Namahs Amrak
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18 Mar 2015

normen wrote:
Thats the point, yes. The base chords for every (normal western) scale are thirds out of that scale stacked on top of the base notes
Yes, yes. Major chord is 1, 3, 5. Or I, III, V maybe. I get that theory. Back to the AutoTheory RE, how can I get, let's say a C major chord, played as consecutive notes within that chord, from a single note in the sequencer (of which I would assume 'C' and the scale setting to be set at C major).

I simply cannot work this out !
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normen
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18 Mar 2015

normen wrote:
Thats the point, yes. The base chords for every (normal western) scale are thirds out of that scale stacked on top of the base notes
Namahs Amrak wrote:
Yes, yes. Major chord is 1, 3, 5. Or I, III, V maybe. I get that theory. Back to the AutoTheory RE, how can I get, let's say a C major chord, played as consecutive notes within that chord, from a single note in the sequencer (of which I would assume 'C' and the scale setting to be set at C major).

I simply cannot work this out !
You either play C,D,E one octave higher on the keyboard while pressing the chord one octave lower to play the notes of the chord separately manually or you enable the "strum" feature and set its latency to always have them played sequentially.

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meowsqueak
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18 Mar 2015

 Back to the AutoTheory RE, how can I get, let's say a C major chord, played as consecutive notes within that chord, from a single note in the sequencer (of which I would assume 'C' and the scale setting to be set at C major).
Developer here - hope I can help.

Try this - create a new AT with the default patch in a new song document. Hook up the Chord 1 Gate & Note outputs to the Gate and Note inputs of, say, a Thor. Do the same with Melody 1 Gate & Note outputs, to a different instrument. Flip the rack around.

Don't worry about the Melody Lock section for now - leave it at default. Same with the Strummer, Octave knobs, and other options.

Hit C2 on your keyboard (one octave below middle-C). This should trigger a C major chord. D2 should trigger D minor, etc. The seven white keys of the left octave(s) will trigger the seven chords of the chosen key & scale. At this point you might want to turn the Strummer on to a slow rate so you can hear each note in the chord more easily.

Hit C3 on your keyboard. This should play a single C note on your second instrument. By default, the seven white keys of the right octave(s) will play single notes, and are for playing melody.

Leaving the Scale as Major, try changing the Key, and see how the notes change - both the chords will change, and the melody mapping too. In the Key of C, the C2 key will play the tonic chord of the C Major scale - i.e. the C major chord. If you change the key to G, then the C2 key will play the tonic chord of the G Major scale - i.e. the G major chord.

Once you understand how that works, put it back to the Key of C and try changing the Scale, and see how the notes change. With Scale as Major, the C2 key plays the C major chord. With Scale as Minor, the C2 key plays the C minor chord.

Change one thing at a time until you understand what it does. The controls in AutoTheory are fairly orthogonal and can be considered individually.

Once you understand what AutoTheory is actually doing (remapping melody notes, and creating chords from the selected scale), you can try making your own custom chords by moving the vertical sliders to sharpen or flatten notes within each chord. You also have control over the octave of each note in the chord, and the base octave of each connected instrument.

Hope that helps? :)


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Namahs Amrak
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18 Mar 2015

Thanks meowsqueak. Are you Pitchblende?

I'll revisit this over the weekend, but it seems that I may have overlooked the keyboard split, and the specific behaviours that different octave ranges have.

This seems like it will be an excellent learning tool as well as a Reason utility. That makes it quite unique for an RE.

(PS, thanks also to Normen for the replies)
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meowsqueak
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18 Mar 2015

Thanks meowsqueak. Are you Pitchblende? 

I represent Pitchblende, yes :)

The keyboard split is crucial to understanding how AutoTheory affects chords and melody notes. You can move the position of the split with a small knob on the back panel, but I recommend leaving it at the default value for now.

AutoTheory is indeed used in teaching contexts.

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Julibee
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19 Mar 2015

I just bookmarked this thread, because I get confused every time!  Probably just means I should use it more, or at least PRACTICE, because it is a really incredible tool.

Thanks meowsqueak and Normen for the info, and Namahs Amrak for the question!
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littlejam
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19 Mar 2015

hello,

i also view this information very valuable:  thank you very much for posting


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mozaic36
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21 Apr 2015

Hey, check out this tut I made about music theory basics:  http://www.autotheorybymozaic.com/music-theory-basics
It should help provide a basic foundation of knowledge to work upon.  AutoTheory was created with the intent of making it very easy to play chord progressions and matching melodies from any key and multiple scales.  If you make it a point to learn the basics about what a key, scale, chord and melody are, you will not really have any limits on what you can play.

From my personal usage I have found that the Dynamic Scale mapping is the most rewarding, as it allows you to mix in non chord tones to your melody on weak beats.  This allows you to have step motion in your melody.  The Chord Tones mapping is nice if you are going for a more basic arpeggiated sound.  Both of these mappings use patented open arpeggiation technology: http://www.autotheorybymozaic.com/blog


GRIFTY
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21 Apr 2015

I understand the way the device works just fine.... What I have trouble with is the 'modes'..... I thought music worked in basic scales and whatnot I.e. major, natural minor, harmonic minor, blues, etc.......I have no idea what all this Lydian or mixolodean nonsense means. I'm a drummer.

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normen
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21 Apr 2015

GRIFTY wrote:I understand the way the device works just fine.... What I have trouble with is the 'modes'..... I thought music worked in basic scales and whatnot I.e. major, natural minor, harmonic minor, blues, etc.......I have no idea what all this Lydian or mixolodean nonsense means. I'm a drummer.
Modal or "church scales" are the most basic western scales. Its basically what you get when you play the notes of the major scale with different base notes. So the notes of C Major with D as a base note is "Dorian", G would be "Mixolydian" etc. "Aeolian" is actually natural minor (the C Major notes played from A). Then of course you can transpose all that and also play Dorian from G or any other note. Actually you can explain most every music modally.

Scales themselves are actually just what comes from a certain harmonic structure, really. Sure its what many people start out with (e.g. on guitar) but the reason why a scale consists of the notes it has lies mostly in the harmony (at least in western music).

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mozaic36
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21 Apr 2015

The modes were created/defined by Pythagoras, you can get a run down on the philosophy behind the scales on the AutoTheory website.  The modes all relate to the "circle of fifths" or "Pythagorean Circle", which is the most efficient manner of organizing music.  You can easily create a Harmonic Minor by adding a # to the 7th scale tone of a Minor (Aeolian).  

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tiker01
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22 Apr 2015

Here is a great channel about music theory: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNBiLB ... cVRD5fS8aA
    
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pedrocaetanos
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22 Apr 2015

GRIFTY wrote:I understand the way the device works just fine.... What I have trouble with is the 'modes'..... I thought music worked in basic scales and whatnot I.e. major, natural minor, harmonic minor, blues, etc.......I have no idea what all this Lydian or mixolodean nonsense means. I'm a drummer.
And another vision (different points of view often help to understand something... or can get more confusion sometimes ;) ), if you don't want to dive too much into deeper theory:
1) Consider scales and modes the same thing (diference is highly theoretical - and "modal music" is even harder to define)
2) There are much more scales than you tougth
3) Some of those have more than one name
4) Scales/modes kind of define a feeling, a "palette of colors" for the melody (I suppose you knew that...)
5) The most fundamental characteristic of the scale/mode is whether the 3rd note is major or minor - this defines if scale/mode is major or minor "flavored"
(ex.: in C major scale, 3rd note is E, a Major 3rd interval; in C minor scale, 3rd note is Eb, a Minor 3rd interval - Major and minor are terms used for scales, intervals, chords, etc...  :) )
EXAMPLES
- Major scale = Ionian mode
- Minor scale = Aeolian mode = Natural Minor
- Lydian mode = piano white keys, starting in F = pick a major scale and raise it's 4th note by half tone (in Cmaj scale, F note becomes F#)
- Mixolydean mode = piano white keys, starting in G = pick a major scale and lower it's 7th note by half tone (in Cmaj scale, B note becomes Bb)
- Harmonic Minor scale = pick a Natural Minor scale and raise it's 7th note by half tone (in Amin scale, G note becomes G#)
- Melodic Minor scale = pick an Harmonic Minor scale and raise it's 6th note by half tone (that's the origin of it) = pick a Major scale and lower it's 3rd note by half tone (easier to grasp; in Cmaj scale, E note becomes Eb)
(Actually, in formal terms, this is the Ascending Melodic Minor scale. The Descending Melodic Minor scale is the same as the Natural Minor)


Some more ideas:

In classical music, you only have major and minor scales, but minor means 3 things at the same time. A minor piece (generally) should have the harmony in Harmonic Minor, and the melody in... guess: Melodic Minor ! (both Ascending and Descending, depending on what fits better the part/compass/whatever - altough the original idea was to use them in ascending notes or descending notes parts).
In modern times... anything goes! Jazz in particular uses lots of different scales/modes. Often, chords have so many notes that they define a scale, so as the chords change, also the scale changes.
Simple vision:
- Classical = 1 scale + 7 chords "belonging" to the scale - meaning the chords that use the notes that belong to the scale
- Jazz = a bunch of chords (each with 4 notes or more) + 1 scale for each chord
(this is the simple vision because not everything fits in this; ex 1: there can be changes of scale in the midst of a classical piece; ex 2: old jazz, more similar to blues)

Pop/rock works like classical, but its simpler. Sometimes it derives from blues, which is a "weird" thing that doesn't really fit into music theory (I not saying bad things about it, I like it, but it's not a theoretical thing :) ). Blues is more a set of "guidelines". For melody play a minor pentatonic, plus a "blue note". For chords play a major scale, but preferrably play just the I, IV and V, and in that case you can make them all 7th chords - everything will fit together and sound like blues. But the "blue note" cannot be used any time... you have to get the feeling for it...

Due to the absence of a real theory behind it, there are some variations on what is considered the Blues Scale. When I see a software with a Blues Scale amongst others, I'm never sure what exactly is going to come out of it...

But you can "extend" Blues: instead of pentatotic use the whole diatonic minor and add the blue note. Or you can go the jazz way and use the I7, IV7 and V7 to define scales (kind of) - and this will start sounding more like Jazz Blues.



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GRIFTY
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22 Apr 2015

So if I set the device to C aeolian am I really playing in A minor?

GRIFTY
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22 Apr 2015

I'm starting to get it. So if I'm taking C aeolian as the example.... I'm not in A minor. I'm taking the notes of the C major scale and starting from A (the 6th note) as if it was the I. So ABCDEFGA. I.E. A minor. So I'm taking the intervals I found by starting at the 6th note of C major and transposing them down so that they start on C instead of A. So aeolian mode is really just a natural minor scale. Why it needs to be labeled differently is beyond me but it's interesting to figure out the logic behind it

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