Quick question about Leveler

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K1TTENM1TTEN
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

12 Mar 2015

So I noticed on the tutorials/pdf that you take the max db of your vocal's volume, and the minimum, and then calculate from there. Well, is there an easy way to see what the minimum is? I know that Leveler automatically detects highest, which is great, but is there an easy way to see the smallest without having to guess? Example, on not vocal tracks, I just see Midi data on the sequencer, not minimum db. Any tips would rock!

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selig
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12 Mar 2015

It's not easy to know what signal should represent this minimum without listening, as if you go only by levels there may in some cases be breaths that are louder than the softest word etc.

I've now used the Leveler enough to be able to hear when it's not grabbing the softest words and increase the Curve amount accordingly. But it's not like there is a huge amount of variation between different vocal tracks. As a guide, for vocals a Curve setting of typically between 12 and 24 dB works great. I rarely use more than 50% Blend on anything, especially vocals. This is mainly because the upwards compression is so effective you can leave 50% of the original signal in the mix and STILL be more smoothly leveled than any compressor out there that I'm familiar with. 

For drums and some other acoustic instruments that decay (as opposed to organ type envelopers), I typically use 6-12 dB Curve. 

For the most part, I simply try to identify the softest line in the song and loop that to get the proper settings while listening. Moving Blend temporally up to 100% can help you more easily recognize when the Curve is set correctly.

In some very rare cases, especially on a vocal that may have been heavily compressed to start with, the same Curve setting that catches all words will also "catch" things you don't want, like breaths or headphone bleed. The way to avoid this is to simply automate the Curve control higher or lower as needed (whichever takes less automation!). You don't have to be especially precise with this, just bump the control up/down enough to avoid catching the unwanted elements of the track. This is very rare in my experience, and the only times it happened I only needed to automate a very small section to get totally clean results.

:)
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K1TTENM1TTEN
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12 Mar 2015

Ah okay! I didn't know if there was like a "reverse peak meter" kinda thing :-) Thanks for the response!

On a side note, I saw you post a sample of a piano that had basically no decay, using Leveler as an "extreme" effect. What were your settings on the piano to get the decay to hang like that? It was reallllly cool :-D

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selig
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12 Mar 2015

K1TTENM1TTEN wrote:Ah okay! I didn't know if there was like a "reverse peak meter" kinda thing :-) Thanks for the response!

On a side note, I saw you post a sample of a piano that had basically no decay, using Leveler as an "extreme" effect. What were your settings on the piano to get the decay to hang like that? It was reallllly cool :-D
I used two Levelers in series to get 96 dB of automatic gain, one to handle the -96 to -48 dB range and the second the -48 dB to 0 dB range. I was curious how far I could go, and in that example you'll hear the stuff way down at -96 dB as loud as the initial attack!

This is a great way to generate erie atmospheres, especially using a low piano note or a pitched down crash or ride cymbal. You only really need one Leveler for this effect, unless you're really pushing things!

As for the "reverse peak hold", idea, I really did try to find a way to make this part of the process easier, but as you can imagine there's no way to differentiate between low level "good stuff" and low level "bad stuff" without manual intervention.

:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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Julibee
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13 Mar 2015

selig wrote:c...the same Curve setting that catches all words will also "catch" things you don't want, like breaths or headphone bleed. 
:)
Am I the only one who actually LIKES breaths on my tracks?? I don't worry about them in the slightest.  Honestly, when I hear a song with all of the breaths cut out, I feel like a robot is singing... 

But the real reason I interject here; Selig, is there a "best practices for Curve on vocals" document somewhere?  I use it all the time, but after reading your latest posts, I'm not certain I'm doing it effectively... I get it so twisted in my mind (granted, that is not too difficult....) 
I'm still doing it wrong.
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joeyluck
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13 Mar 2015

selig wrote:c...the same Curve setting that catches all words will also "catch" things you don't want, like breaths or headphone bleed. 
:)
Julibee wrote:
Am I the only one who actually LIKES breaths on my tracks?? I don't worry about them in the slightest.  Honestly, when I hear a song with all of the breaths cut out, I feel like a robot is singing... 

But the real reason I interject here; Selig, is there a "best practices for Curve on vocals" document somewhere?  I use it all the time, but after reading your latest posts, I'm not certain I'm doing it effectively... I get it so twisted in my mind (granted, that is not too difficult....) 
I enjoy breaths as well...I just don't want them as loud as the vocals.

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selig
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13 Mar 2015

selig wrote:c...the same Curve setting that catches all words will also "catch" things you don't want, like breaths or headphone bleed. 
:)
Julibee wrote:
Am I the only one who actually LIKES breaths on my tracks?? I don't worry about them in the slightest.  Honestly, when I hear a song with all of the breaths cut out, I feel like a robot is singing... 

But the real reason I interject here; Selig, is there a "best practices for Curve on vocals" document somewhere?  I use it all the time, but after reading your latest posts, I'm not certain I'm doing it effectively... I get it so twisted in my mind (granted, that is not too difficult....) 
I too hate it when breaths are removed, as I would prefer them to all be at a more natural level (not too loud, of course). But I also like the "Steve Miller" sound (listen to Big Old Jet Airliner for some of the loudest breaths you've probably ever heard).



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Yonatan
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13 Mar 2015

I use my ears with the settings. I love the way the Leveler makes me being able to cut down some on the use of compressors, I mean, sometimes you may want some of those small artifacts that can come with an ordinary compressor, but it is nice to have the option to be as transparent as you want. And Leveler comes to a great use in those cases.

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Benedict
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13 Mar 2015

Well, well, despite always really liking this song I have never stopped and thought that Steve sounds like the big old jet engine himself. It just seemed such a natural part of the performance. I was aware they were there but never really thought, ooh listen to those breaths.

That said I really don't like a lot of modern "singers" who almost seem to record a breathing track just to try to make them seem like they are emoting. Utter bollocks to me. Makes me stop listening.

My 10c is to allow breaths to be there if they are part of the natural performance but don't amplify or otherwise start trying to fog up the mic to cover a total lack of genuine talent in singer or song.

:)
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