Reveal Sound Spire RE confirmed in the works!!!!

[EdGrip]

Anyway, I hate confrontation and find arguing stressful, so I'll just say it'll be lovely if they make some kind of concession to crossgraders and that it'll maybe (probably) make the difference between me buying it or buying something Reason-specific instead.

[joeyluck]

But, at the end of the day - it costs devs tons of money and time to port their existing products to RE, just to sell it to a substantially smaller demographic that traditionally is pretty frugal. I can appreciate them trying to recoup their R&D by charging for their port. They're taking a loss no matter any way you slice it, though.

You forgot picky too

[XysteR]

Reason users are a smaller community, so it's only fair for us all to buy it for this platform regardless of if we own the VST.

^^ THIS ^^

In any case - You already have Spire anyway, just run it in a VST host if you want to use it in Reason, Same as I do with Serum?

Yeah but, let's be honest - that solution is not ideal if we prefer working in Reason. Hence, why we're all clamoring for the RE.

If Steve duda announced he was doing Serum for Re, I certainly wouldn't be crying 'crossgrade'. I'd buy the Re version all over again.

If Steve Duda ported Serum to RE, that would just be amazing. Small digression: It was posted in the Rack Extensionists group over at FB some time ago (and possibly here somewhere) that Props did approach him on porting it at one time. He declined because he would have to make too many compromises to get it into Reason's rack (again, at the time), and he didn't want to change the design aesthetic of Serum or remove features, as he felt that it would ruin what makes Serum unique.

But... there are other synths that really have placated my desire for Serum in Reason. Similar to how Blamsoft Expanse has placated my desire for Spire in Reason (though I'll still jump on Spire RE once it drops)!

It's not ideal to get Serum in Reason, but for me it's only two double clicks and it's in. So no skin of my nose if it never comes to Reason. Yeah I remember that Steve duda thing about the potential Re port. Loading samples/waveforms for a start - Damn these SDK limitations. Saying that, now Spire is coming, who knows if an SDK update comes any time soon, we may see duda change his mind and follow Reveal Sound. Reason has gained a lot more popularity recently since R9. When you really think about it, Spire is going to help Reason popularity in countless ways. Propellerhead have hit a good wave with Reveal Sound, all they have to do is stay on the board and ride it. Hopefully it'll tempt other big names to join us?

Yeah I know what you mean about eXpanse, it's great, it kinda reminded me of both Serum and Spire.

I've got a sneaky feeling that we may see Spire sooner than we think. Hopefully, we'll see

[EnochLight]

Anyway, I hate confrontation and find arguing stressful..

No worries - I hope our exchange didn't come off as arguing or confrontational! I thought we were just sharing our opinions. Anyway, cheers!

You forgot picky too

LOL!! Very true, sir. Yes we are.

[EdGrip]

Anyway, I hate confrontation and find arguing stressful..

No worries - I hope our exchange didn't come off as arguing or confrontational! I thought we were just sharing our opinions. Anyway, cheers!

Not at all! I meant that in a tongue-in-cheek way. Shoulda chucked a winking smiley in there somewhere.

[EdGrip]

Reason has gained a lot more popularity recently since R9.

Has it? That's good news.

[PhutureD]

Reason users are a smaller community, so it's only fair for us all to buy it for this platform regardless of if we own the VST.

^^ THIS ^^

In any case - You already have Spire anyway, just run it in a VST host if you want to use it in Reason, Same as I do with Serum?

Yeah but, let's be honest - that solution is not ideal if we prefer working in Reason. Hence, why we're all clamoring for the RE.

If Steve duda announced he was doing Serum for Re, I certainly wouldn't be crying 'crossgrade'. I'd buy the Re version all over again.

If Steve Duda ported Serum to RE, that would just be amazing. Small digression: It was posted in the Rack Extensionists group over at FB some time ago (and possibly here somewhere) that Props did approach him on porting it at one time. He declined because he would have to make too many compromises to get it into Reason's rack (again, at the time), and he didn't want to change the design aesthetic of Serum or remove features, as he felt that it would ruin what makes Serum unique.

But... there are other synths that really have placated my desire for Serum in Reason. Similar to how Blamsoft Expanse has placated my desire for Spire in Reason (though I'll still jump on Spire RE once it drops)!

It's not ideal to get Serum in Reason, but for me it's only two double clicks and it's in. So no skin of my nose if it never comes to Reason. Yeah I remember that Steve duda thing about the potential Re port. Loading samples/waveforms for a start - Damn these SDK limitations. Saying that, now Spire is coming, who knows if an SDK update comes any time soon, we may see duda change his mind and follow Reveal Sound. Reason has gained a lot more popularity recently since R9. When you really think about it, Spire is going to help Reason popularity in countless ways. Propellerhead have hit a good wave with Reveal Sound, all they have to do is stay on the board and ride it. Hopefully it'll tempt other big names to join us?

Yeah I know what you mean about eXpanse, it's great, it kinda reminded me of both Serum and Spire.

I've got a sneaky feeling that we may see Spire sooner than we think. Hopefully, we'll see

Dunno if this has been mentioned before - Hopefully the r in it for the long haul and we dont see what has happened with Ubik. Also would be great ,not sure if this has been mentioned is a patch converter for the vst libraries.

[dezma]

Just FYI: I contacted them a few months ago about the crossgrade. Seems it still in discussion.

Hi!

Thank you for contacting us.

We are at a very early stage of development at this point. All functionality from VST version will be implemented in ReSpire, but a little differently - it depends on what current Reason version allows.
Pricing question is still under discussion.

Thank you for understanding.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions.

Best regards,

Reveal Sound Team

[EnochLight]

Just FYI: I contacted them a few months ago about the crossgrade. Seems it still in discussion.

Hi!

Thank you for contacting us.

We are at a very early stage of development at this point. All functionality from VST version will be implemented in ReSpire, but a little differently - it depends on what current Reason version allows.
Pricing question is still under discussion.

Thank you for understanding.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions.

Best regards,

Reveal Sound Team

Thanks - I figured they'd wait until release before they reveal whether or not there will be a crossgrade program. Still, the other part has been mentioned several time before, which - with today's news - might not be so different from the current VST feature set.

Now that Reason's RE''s can now support changeable panels (and sampling), Spire can appear in Reason largely unchanged from the current VST, if Reveal Sound really wanted to go that route. Still, I'm excited to see which path they take!

[EnochLight]

So the switching between OSC1, 2, or LFO1, 2 etc. in the GUI is not a problem with the current RE SDK?

It works similarly to how several existing REs do it (Antidote, JPS Harmonic Synth, etc.): the physical controls stay in the same arrangement, they just control different things depending on what's selected.

I'll be really curious if it does work the same as those examples....

We've been over this! Haha It's surely the reason why they grouped LFOs exclusively and ENVs exclusively (unlike the AU/VST that mixes them up) (which is a bit odd anyways)

Am I right about everything else so far?

Perhaps... perhaps not..

So, now that the cat is out the bag.. They're free to do switchable panels just like the VST. I wonder if this will change their direction now?

https://www.propellerheads.se/blog/announcing-reason-92

[joeyluck]

So the switching between OSC1, 2, or LFO1, 2 etc. in the GUI is not a problem with the current RE SDK?

It works similarly to how several existing REs do it (Antidote, JPS Harmonic Synth, etc.): the physical controls stay in the same arrangement, they just control different things depending on what's selected.

I'll be really curious if it does work the same as those examples....

We've been over this! Haha It's surely the reason why they grouped LFOs exclusively and ENVs exclusively (unlike the AU/VST that mixes them up) (which is a bit odd anyways)

Am I right about everything else so far?

Perhaps... perhaps not..

So, now that the cat is out the bag.. They're free to do switchable panels just like the VST. I wonder if this will change their direction now?

https://www.propellerheads.se/blog/announcing-reason-92

I was curious about this as well. From the looks of it, they've been making things work with the previous SDK. But who knows if they knew this was coming or not...

[EdGrip]

If eXode, Blamsoft, Selig and LoveOne knew it was coming, I would think Reveal Sound would know it was coming.

[chk071]

Maybe that was the reason they started development in the first place.

[chimp_spanner]

Maybe that was the reason they started development in the first place.

True that. Racks like proton don't happen overnight. It must've been in the hands of devs for a while now.

[joeyluck]

Maybe that was the reason they started development in the first place.

True that. Racks like proton don't happen overnight. It must've been in the hands of devs for a while now.

It's news to most of the ones I've spoken to

[EnochLight]

It's pretty obvious that if Reveal Sound would have had a hold of an early beta, they would have done things differently on Spire RE so far. There would have been no reason to re-design the LFO and ENV panels or make a Custom Display for the effects. So I'm guessing Reveal Sound were not provided access to SDK 2.5 in beta (which is insanely idiotic, IMHO).

[joeyluck]

It's pretty obvious that if Reveal Sound would have had a hold of an early beta, they would have done things differently on Spire RE so far. There would have been no reason to re-design the LFO and ENV panels or make a Custom Display for the effects. So I'm guessing Reveal Sound were not provided access to SDK 2.5 in beta (which is insanely idiotic, IMHO).

Well I wouldn't say that. It still has to be tested before being put in the hands of more developers...and in the hands of new RE developers at that. So it makes sense that developers already very familiar with the previous SDK were the ones taking it for a spin.

But then maybe they could've been given a heads up to wait? But in that case, do you provide all developers with equal treatment with the same information? Reveal Sound is popular, but still a small developer with one plugin. Then you consider that you might have a drop in Rack Extensions being developed if you tell everybody. And potential broken promises because you don't yet know how well the new SDK will work and what features you can assure will make it into the update after testing...

In the end, we don't know who has what info and the timeline of events. Reveal might have known months ago, but wanted to get started... Who knows? What can be done is asking Reveal Sound, "Hey, does the new SDK change anything with your development plans?"

[EnochLight]

It's pretty obvious that if Reveal Sound would have had a hold of an early beta, they would have done things differently on Spire RE so far. There would have been no reason to re-design the LFO and ENV panels or make a Custom Display for the effects. So I'm guessing Reveal Sound were not provided access to SDK 2.5 in beta (which is insanely idiotic, IMHO).

Well I wouldn't say that. It still has to be tested before being put in the hands of more developers...and in the hands of new RE developers at that. So it makes sense that developers already very familiar with the previous SDK were the ones taking it for a spin.

But then maybe they could've been given a heads up to wait? But in that case, do you provide all developers with equal treatment with the same information? Reveal Sound is popular, but still a small developer with one plugin. Then you consider that you might have a drop in Rack Extensions being developed if you tell everybody. And potential broken promises because you don't yet know how well the new SDK will work and what features you can assure will make it into the update after testing...

In the end, we don't know who has what info and the timeline of events. Reveal might have known months ago, but wanted to get started... Who knows? What can be done is asking Reveal Sound, "Hey, does the new SDK change anything with your development plans?"

Fair points, except for this:

Reveal Sound is popular, but still a small developer with one plugin.

Reveal Sound's Spire is one of the most popular/best selling VST on the market right now, an industry staple, and still ranks in the top 10 of all time best plugins. It coming to Reason's rack means one of the most popular devs on the planet - with one of the most popular plugins on the market - is "on board".

The importance of that for the platform cannot be understated. It just seems to me that getting them an early build would have been in Props best interest, is all I'm saying. That said, we'll never know if they did or didn't have access. At the end of the day, we're getting Spire in some form for Reason - which is all that matters.

Now, if Props could convince Steve Duda to get on board...

[svenh]

Reveal Sound's Spire is one of the most popular/best selling VST on the market right now, an industry staple, and still ranks in the top 10 of all time best plugins. It coming to Reason's rack means one of the most popular devs on the planet - with one of the most popular plugins on the market - is "on board".

The importance of that for the platform cannot be understated. It just seems to me that getting them an early build would have been in Props best interest, is all I'm saying. That said, we'll never know if they did or didn't have access. At the end of the day, we're getting Spire in some form for Reason - which is all that matters.

Now, if Props could convince Steve Duda to get on board...

^^^ THIS! ^^^

[EnochLight]

UPDATE:

I emailed Reveal Sound support last night and sent them a link to the new SDK 2.5 announcements and mentioned the new features, suggesting it should make porting Spire a lot easier. Their response (I bolded the text)?

Hi!

Thank you for informing us.

Have a nice day!

Best regards,

Reveal Sound Team

LOL!!!!

I seriously hope they're just giving me the canned "we can't really admit that we had a hold of it" response, because if they truly didn't..? Just... MAN.

[stp2015]

Of course, Props know that Spire is a big deal and I am sure they are working with Reveal Sound to make it happen

[chk071]

UPDATE:

I emailed Reveal Sound support last night and sent them a link to the new SDK 2.5 announcements and mentioned the new features, suggesting it should make porting Spire a lot easier. Their response (I bolded the text)?

Hi!

Thank you for informing us.

Have a nice day!

Best regards,

Reveal Sound Team

LOL!!!!

They're never shy of a professional sounding answer.

[XysteR]

No excuse for Duda not to come onboard now.

I asked Rob about the possibility of Predator 2 as a Re with the new SDK 2.5, he's checking it soon.

[EnochLight]

No excuse for Duda not to come onboard now.

Well, truth be told - there's always excuses. I put the feelers out to KV331 Audio to see if they'd consider porting Synthmaster 2.8, now that Reason's RE SDK appears to support all (UX/GUI) features needed to squeeze most plugins into a max 9U space. Their response from this morning? This is what Bulent Biyikoglu had to say:

Hi there

The problem with Rack Extensions is: Propellerheads have strict UI requirements and we are not comfortable with that.

So, despite all of the progress - some devs still feel that there are too many strict UI requirements for RE's. That said, I have no idea if KV331 has bothered to look at the latest SDK. Looking at Synthmaster, at least for the uninitiated, I can't see anything UI-wise that would hold them or Steve Duda back - but clearly they disagree. It boils down to the fact - very likely - that both Duda as well as KV331 would have to redesign the UI completely in order to accommodate the max 9U rack space, and approach the size restraints by way of hidable/changable widgets/panels. Clearly this isn't an issue for Reveal Sound to port Spire, as their product was already close to Reason's rack design aesthetic, but Steve Duda's Serum and KV331's Synthmaster apparently have aspects that their creators feel would compromise their product design too much to make that leap.

I asked Rob about the possibility of Predator 2 as a Re with the new SDK 2.5, he's checking it soon.

Same. I've been in touch with Jon, and he's looking into it. They're both just extremely busy right now with other products, so I doubt we'll see/hear anything until they're finished. Here's hoping it is soon though!

[[ UPDATE ]]

Unrelated to this thread per say, but KV331 just contacted me again. Bulent said:

Frankly I haven't checked out the latest 2.5 SDK. I'll talk to Propellerheads about the latest changes in their SDK.

So... perhaps there's hope yet for Synthmaster.

[tibah]

Bringing this up since I feel I can contribute to this topic a little...

Just bought Spire recently. Did contact Reveal Sound if this would be a good time to wait for the RE to hit as well. The response was quite frustrating for a user of Reason and Bitwig that likes both in their ways. They stated, that the RE is still in alpha and that the VST version would be always the best option + the regular SDK limitations talk. I know they also wanted to make a sale, so I don't know how much value I (you) should put into that and how long it will still take for it to hit the shop.

One another note, Spire is a fantastic synth and very rewarding to program and tweak. So, everyone that has no experience with the plug-in version -you really have something to look forward to, SDK hiccups or not.