Reveal Sound Spire RE confirmed in the works!!!!

[joeyluck]

I've combined the topics

[EnochLight]

I've combined the topics

Sweet - thanks!

[Reasonistas]

....and there will be a Spire Song Challenge and hopefully a Community Refill

[svenh]

I don't mind that the VST GUI and the RE GUI are a bit different, but to me, one of the most important things is that all parameters are mappable on my Nektar Panorama P4!

I already own the Spire VST and I love its sound. However, it would be more convenient, ergonomic, and fun to be able to program patches via P4.

It currently looks like the entire FX section has been moved to some LCD-ish part of the RE GUI. I wonder if those parameters can be reached from P4? If I can't use my P4 fully with the RE version I might as well stick with the VST version.

Hoping for the best,
Sven

[EnochLight]

If I can't use my P4 fully with the RE version I might as well stick with the VST version.

Whatever works for you. For me, I prefer to work inside Reason instead of Studio One, so the less I have to do inside of S1, the better. I'll happily accept that loss if it means I have a 1:1 port (sounds and features-wise). Do you build your own Panorama remote maps for Reason? If so, you'll need to share whatever you come up with for Spire RE once it drops. Nektar Tech are notoriously slow for updating their remote maps support.

[Lizard]

I have no doubt that within a week or two after delivery a Nektar map will be created for Spire. Maybe even sooner if someone in the test group knows how to program one. I would not worry about "if" it will support the real question is when. If it is a remotable item on the device then there is the possibility of being included in a map. The only things that cannot be mapped are controls when they are added to the back of a device. Some Re developers are very clever with adding controls to the back but unfortunately cannot be mapped. There are rare instances I have seen where items are not mappable on the front of the device.

[svenh]

Thanks Lizard for giving me hope!

[Creativemind]

"ReSpire", didn't know that it will be called like that. Sounds good.

Urgh. I'm not a fan of that kind of thing to be honest. If it is the full version then just call it Spire.

Think I agree to be honest. Calling it ReSpire almost implies it's a different plug-in which as far as we've been told, it isn't.

[svenh]

Has any approximate release date at all ever been mentioned?

[EnochLight]

Has any approximate release date at all ever been mentioned?

No.

[tiker01]

AFAIK it is in Aplha/development phase not even in beta so I think earliest release could be around summer but marketing reasons might even push it to a later date. Not soon that is for sure.

[pjeudy]

Question...has anyone asked them selves how much Money Spire will cost?
It will be the most expensive RE instrument for Reason. But well worth the Money...

[miscend]

If they sell it at the same price price as the VST ($189) then they will have to do a cross grade offer like Synapse Audio IMHO. I don't think anyone could justify spending nearly 200 bucks on it. I also hope the CPU usage will be very optimised.

[EdGrip]

It might sound daft, but there's a chance that the Synapse crossgrade thing just hasn't occurred to them. Someone should make sure they're aware of it.

[XysteR]

They seem to be making really good progress with the Re version of Spire, it's in Reason, playing the same patches as the VST version at the moment and sounds identical, because it... Is! wOOt!

Why should they crossgrade? I don't think it'd be fair on Reveal Sound to have to crossgrade peoples VST licence over to Re - All Reason users should pay for it in full, regardless of if they own the VST, and rightly so! Saying that, I'd pay even more than the VST price for the Re version, especially if it utilises CV. So I can easily justify spending $200 - $250 on it and I would, will be. I don't mind supporting hard work with my hard earned money

CPU usage: Same old same old.. It will be what it will be, they know what they're doing - Just keep your hardware updated with the times so you don't have to care/worry so much about CPU. If anyone has to worry about CPU/DSP in Reason then just upgrade. It's so annoying reading these same old comments about 'CPU optimization'. eXode hit the nail on the head in replying to people with their CPU concerns with eXpanse.

I'm looking forward to having Spire in the rack, it'll be bought the instant it hits the store!

[EdGrip]

However much R'n'D has gone into porting Spire to Reason, I can't imagine it was as much as developing Spire in the first place. To charge users full whack twice to use the same softsynth on the same computer will not go down well, and I imagine is likely to put lots of potential buyers off.

Imagine this from a different angle; you go to the website of your fave softsynth developer, and browse to the big fancy softsynth you've heard all about. "$169 - VST3/AU/RE/AAX supported", says the website, helpfully. Great, you think - well done, them. You click buy, and hand over $169. You click on the download link.
"VST3/AU/RE/AAX - CHOOSE ONE AND ONE ONLY! YOU MUST DECIDE! DECIDE NOW!", says the website.

"But I use Logic and Ableton--"

"YOU CHOOSE NOW!"

"Err. Nah. You're alright. I'll just have the money back, if it's all the same. Thanks."


That's how I'd feel, anyway. How does this situation normally work for VST/AU plugins? Do you normally have to choose just one?

[XysteR]

However much R'n'D has gone into porting Spire to Reason, I can't imagine it was as much as developing Spire in the first place. To charge users full whack twice to use the same softsynth on the same computer will not go down well, and I imagine is likely to put lots of potential buyers off.

Imagine this from a different angle; you go to the website of your fave softsynth developer, and browse to the big fancy softsynth you've heard all about. "$169 - VST3/AU/RE/AAX supported", says the website, helpfully. Great, you think - well done, them. You click buy, and hand over $169. You click on the download link.
"VST3/AU/RE/AAX - CHOOSE ONE AND ONE ONLY! YOU MUST DECIDE! DECIDE NOW!", says the website.

"But I use Logic and Ableton--"

"YOU CHOOSE NOW!"

"Err. Nah. You're alright. I'll just have the money back, if it's all the same. Thanks."


That's how I'd feel, anyway. How does this situation normally work for VST/AU plugins? Do you normally have to choose just one?

But you're missing the point. Its not ultimately about how you feel - Either way you'll probably end up buying it anyway. Reveal Sound have clearly noticed Reason gain popularity, and are pretty much putting a fair chunk of resources into their Spire Re. They should be rewarded. Doing VST crossgrades to Re just would not be fair on them imho. Reason users are a smaller community, so it's only fair for us all to buy it for this platform regardless of if we own the VST. In any case - You already have Spire anyway, just run it in a VST host if you want to use it in Reason, Same as I do with Serum? If Steve duda announced he was doing Serum for Re, I certainly wouldn't be crying 'crossgrade'. I'd buy the Re version all over again.

[EnochLight]

That's how I'd feel, anyway. How does this situation normally work for VST/AU plugins? Do you normally have to choose just one?

Well, most other plugins can be bought direct from the dev at a substantial savings through their own shop, and you can use it in any DAW that supports the various plugin formats (VST/AAX/AU). That's several DAW - any of your choice. But Reason is unique in that it only sells plugins from the Prop Shop.

What few devs do have 1:1 VST to RE ports, some offer a crossgrade, some do not. I know Rob Papen has done so in the past, so it's entirely up to the dev.

Whether it should be charged for or not is up for debate. Devs put a metric shit ton of work into porting to RE, and that work should be paid for IMHO. From a consumer standpoint, most of us think everything should be free or cheap, though, so through our biased eyes we expect it free or cheap. But I can totally respect a dev wanting to recoup costs and make a profit, after all - they're doing this for the money - not to "be nice". It's a business, at the end of the day...

Getting back to the subject, I expect full well for Reveal Sound to charge for their Spire port. As an owner of the VST, it would be nice if I got a crossgrade (either discounted or free), but I'm one of those types who'll buy it if I want it anyway, so... And as far as price, I wouldn't be shocked if this is the same price as the VST/AU/AAX, seeing as how Reveal Sound will lose a big chunk off of the top in order to sell it in the PropShop anyway. Whether it's worth it to you or not depends on how much you value the instrument.

Synapse Audio charges $99 USD for The Legend VST/AU/AAX. It also costs $99 USD for the RE, and they're taking a hit to sell it in the Prop Shop to a smaller demographic. I guess, at the end of the day, we'll have to wait and see what Reveal Sound does.

[Karim]

They seem to be making really good progress with the Re version of Spire, it's in Reason, playing the same patches as the VST version at the moment and sounds identical, because it... Is! wOOt!

Why should they crossgrade? I don't think it'd be fair on Reveal Sound to have to crossgrade peoples VST licence over to Re - All Reason users should pay for it in full, regardless of if they own the VST, and rightly so! Saying that, I'd pay even more than the VST price for the Re version, especially if it utilises CV. So I can easily justify spending $200 - $250 on it and I would, will be. I don't mind supporting hard work with my hard earned money

CPU usage: Same old same old.. It will be what it will be, they know what they're doing - Just keep your hardware updated with the times so you don't have to care/worry so much about CPU. If anyone has to worry about CPU/DSP in Reason then just upgrade. It's so annoying reading these same old comments about 'CPU optimization'. eXode hit the nail on the head in replying to people with their CPU concerns with eXpanse.

I'm looking forward to having Spire in the rack, it'll be bought the instant it hits the store!

Yes, no needs to trials ... natural instabuy
.

Inviato dal mio SM-G925F utilizzando Tapatalk

[EnochLight]

Reason users are a smaller community, so it's only fair for us all to buy it for this platform regardless of if we own the VST.

^^ THIS ^^

In any case - You already have Spire anyway, just run it in a VST host if you want to use it in Reason, Same as I do with Serum?

Yeah but, let's be honest - that solution is not ideal if we prefer working in Reason. Hence, why we're all clamoring for the RE.

If Steve duda announced he was doing Serum for Re, I certainly wouldn't be crying 'crossgrade'. I'd buy the Re version all over again.

If Steve Duda ported Serum to RE, that would just be amazing. Small digression: It was posted in the Rack Extensionists group over at FB some time ago (and possibly here somewhere) that Props did approach him on porting it at one time. He declined because he would have to make too many compromises to get it into Reason's rack (again, at the time), and he didn't want to change the design aesthetic of Serum or remove features, as he felt that it would ruin what makes Serum unique.

But... there are other synths that really have placated my desire for Serum in Reason. Similar to how Blamsoft Expanse has placated my desire for Spire in Reason (though I'll still jump on Spire RE once it drops)!

[EdGrip]

I should say, I'm not saying the crossgrade should necessarily be free as per Synapse; but a reduced price for those who have already bought Spire once would be reasonable. Something akin to an upgrade fee.

I consider paying full price twice for the same version of the same thing to be unreasonable and unjustifiable, and though it's a nuisance that devs have to sell through the Prop shop and pay them commission, that's not different enough from the VST/AU situation to be treated differently. They could sensibly offset the disparity by charging a higher crossgrade fee if moving VST > Reason than Reason > VST, to cover the Props' commission.

[EdGrip]

Also, it does matter what I think, to the extent that it will influence whether or not I make a pricey purchase.

[EdGrip]

Also also, just trying to get this straight in my mind - it's best to buy The Legend as VST, right? In terms of getting the most money to Synapse? Or do they have to pay when they give you the RE license?

[EnochLight]

though it's a nuisance that devs have to sell through the Prop shop and pay them commission, that's not different enough from the VST/AU situation to be treated differently. They could sensibly offset the disparity by charging a higher crossgrade fee if moving VST > Reason than Reason > VST, to cover the Props' commission.

I guess the question is: what would a fair crossgrade price be if they have to charge higher just to offset the loss for selling in the PropShop? Don't get me wrong - as far as us consumers are concerned, we don't care that a seller loses money selling in the Shop. We care about the effect it has on our wallet - full stop. But, at the end of the day - it costs devs tons of money and time to port their existing products to RE, just to sell it to a substantially smaller demographic that traditionally is pretty frugal. I can appreciate them trying to recoup their R&D by charging for their port. They're taking a loss no matter any way you slice it, though.

[EdGrip]

I'd be happy to pay the cost of the Props' commission/Reason Tax, but then if I decided to pay the crossgrade fee to get the VST later, I'd consider the Reason Tax to be already paid.