Selig DeEsser - Real Talk

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

Good afternoon everyone! First off, I want to just want to preface this: I think that Selig is an awesome guy and has more knowledge and understanding of how sound works in his right pinky than I do with my years of fiddling around. 

So back when the DeEsser was originally launched I just so happened to have a girl come to my place and record. Unfortunately, though she is a great singer and I love her voice, she has a very strong lisp that could be heard while she was singing. I trialed the DeEsser thinking I could maybe get rid of her lisp in the recording, but had zero luck. Of course, my trial period ended and I never got to actually dig into the features of Selig's DeEsser. I had always hoped to see it on sale to which I would buy it and give it another go, but then I heard that Selig had no intentions of ever having a sale and thus my hope was crushed.

As I will admit, I tried using the DeEsser to fix something that it was not built to do. I also had not had an issue arise with a recording and sibilance to give the DeEsser a real go; that is, until now. So here I am again, trying to mix a new singer who recently came to my place and recorded a song. This girl has a great voice as well, but truly the vocal recording suffers from quite a bit of sibilance. Honestly, $60 is quite a bit of change for me, and so I was wondering if anyone has any experience with Selig's DeEsser and if it is truly a powerful, easy to use, and useful tool? Does it actually work really well, or does it work "good enough?"

[Chango]

Its the best ever!! You'll notice it right away! highly recommended easy as hell to use. Selig should win a reward for this RE its better than any vst plug in

[Concep]

I really don't know what I would do without it.  The Leveler and De-esser are must haves for my vocal chain.  I find tons of uses for his Gain RE too.  The De-esser will allow you to boost some top end of the vocals if you need to without completely frying out the sibilants.  Very nice and useful.  You will use this every time you mix a vocal.

[Tincture]

I have the De-Esser and it's great.

As for the lisped vocals have you tried the DQ RE? Maybe you'll beable to isolate the lisp band(s) with that and compress them down enough?

[EnochLight]

It's simply one of the finest de-essers on the market, and a must for anyone who records vocals in Reason. That said, it does what it was designed to do just splendid (fix sibilance issues). Speech impediments (such as lisps) may not be quite as affective.

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

As for the lisped vocals have you tried the DQ RE? Maybe you'll beable to isolate the lisp band(s) with that and compress them down enough?

Even with EQ based compression the lisp just was too strong. 

It's simply one of the finest de-essers on the market, and a must for anyone who records vocals in Reason.

Is it as simple as just adding to a chain or does the RE require side-chaining to fix the trouble spots? I will admit, when I demoed it I just added to my audio's chain of effects, so is that perhaps why the lisp issue was not fixed, or is adding it all the user needs to do to automatically fix the sibilance issues?

[eusti]

A little search on the interwebs suggests that a lisp cannot really be fixed by de-essers or something like that...
Some people suggest to record some good "s" sounds (apparently not all "s" sounds do present the issue) and then replace them via audio editing...

D.

[EnochLight]

Is it as simple as just adding to a chain or does the RE require side-chaining to fix the trouble spots? I will admit, when I demoed it I just added to my audio's chain of effects, so is that perhaps why the lisp issue was not fixed, or is adding it all the user needs to do to automatically fix the sibilance issues?

No side chaining required at all.  It's as easy as dropping it in as an insert, and often the default settings are all you need.  Of course tweaking it to taste is easy, too.  Thing is, it should be added in as the first thing in your insert chain.  Let it work on the raw audio, although using it along with Selig's own Leveller is safe (either before or after).  

One of Selig's De-Esser's cool features is the V-S Outputs, which splits the sibilance from the voice.  You can do some awesomely creative effects by giving it its own audio channel in the mixer and only applying effects to either one or the other, and the Listen mode lets you solo each mode.  Pretty bad ass.  Nothing else like it in Reason.

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

One of Selig's De-Esser's cool features is the V-S Outputs, which splits the sibilance from the voice.  You can do some awesomely creative effects by giving it its own audio channel in the mixer and only applying effects to either one or the other, and the Listen mode lets you solo each mode.  Pretty bad ass.  Nothing else like it in Reason. 

That sounds really awesome! Hmmm... Makes me really wish I would not have burned through my trial without getting to really try this thing out. 

I know that Selig has said that he doesn't plan on putting his RE's on sale, and I can respect that, but has there been any word if there may be a bundle of his REs in the near future? If the other two REs are as solid as others are claiming I would be certainly interested in picking up all three  

[ScuzzyEye]

I know that Selig has said that he doesn't plan on putting his RE's on sale, and I can respect that, but has there been any word if there may be a bundle of his REs in the near future? If the other two REs are as solid as others are claiming I would be certainly interested in picking up all three  

He's also said that he won't be making bundles, until there is a "complete my bundle" option to pick up the other items in a bundle for discounted difference. This is for the same reason. He doesn't want people to have to worry about buying one of his devices and finding out if they had waited a day they could have saved money.

[hollyn]

@K1TTENM1TTEN,

1st let me say that Selig's tools are indispensable to me. But before I consider how they affect the chain, I start with mic placement. Perhaps others have mentioned this already so I apologize if so, but the mic and its placement have often surprised me when it comes to sibilance which is what I'm guessing is the lisping you're talking about.

If the mic is offset and/or higher than the nose, that could help. Also, I try to swallow or soften Sses, Tsss and the like whenever possible. But I still edit much of them by hand, even after De-essing. On overdubs, I'll often drop them out altogether.

One thing in particular I love the De-esser for is to send the signal to its own channel. This is a godsend and worth the price of admission alone, imho.

[Ecopro]

The mic and its placement have often surprised me when it comes to sibilance which is what I'm guessing is the lisping you're talking about. If the mic is offset and/or higher than the nose, that could help. Also, I try to swallow or soften Sses, Tsss and the like whenever possible. But I still edit much of them by hand, even after De-essing. On overdubs, I'll often drop them out altogether.

Great Mic placement tips Holly.   We should have a thread about vocals in general. 

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

 

If the mic is offset and/or higher than the nose, that could help. Also, I try to swallow or soften Sses, Tsss and the like whenever possible. But I still edit much of them by hand, even after De-essing. On overdubs, I'll often drop them out altogether. 

Thank you for the tip. Unfortunately, I don't have control over a singer on that second part, haha. That is why I am hoping the DeEsser is as good as everyone claims. 

[selig]

One of Selig's De-Esser's cool features is the V-S Outputs, which splits the sibilance from the voice.  You can do some awesomely creative effects by giving it its own audio channel in the mixer and only applying effects to either one or the other, and the Listen mode lets you solo each mode.  Pretty bad ass.  Nothing else like it in Reason. 

That sounds really awesome! Hmmm... Makes me really wish I would not have burned through my trial without getting to really try this thing out. 

I know that Selig has said that he doesn't plan on putting his RE's on sale, and I can respect that, but has there been any word if there may be a bundle of his REs in the near future? If the other two REs are as solid as others are claiming I would be certainly interested in picking up all three  

I guess I should chime in here - I get mixed messages from folks about sales and bundles. Of course, those who do not own my products ask about sales, and some of those who already own them hope I don't have a sale! Same for bundles.

But I can say this: I'm not the only person behind Selig Audio, and I am listening to some ideas and suggestions about things to try.

My background is NOT in business or marketing, so I simply don't feel comfortable in that world and honestly don't know what works and what doesn't work. So maybe you'll see some experimenting in the future with special offers of some sort - I can't promise anything yet, but you all will be the first to know if anything happens!

About the DeEsser - a LOT of work went into making this a foolproof "set it and leave it" device, that requires absolutely no knowledge of frequencies or thresholds or filters or whatever. It just does what it says, no bull. But I can honestly say it took a lot of work and head scratching to get it to do what it does - don't let it's simplicity of operation belie it's inner power! 

There is no other DeEsser on the market that can do what this one does. But do you NEED it? Maybe not, it depends on your budget and priorities. But for now there is another Selig DeEsser you can use for free, in the Factory Sound Bank: "Dynamics/Vocals/Vocal De-Esser". 

As for the lisp effect - this is caused by removing too much sibilance. For a laugh, listen to just the Voice channel on a vocal with plenty of sibilants. Play it for the vocalist at your own risk…  So I'm not sure a DeEsser would get rid of this - might just make it worse!

As for other approaches - I never found that microphone placement affected sibilance positively (without affecting other qualities). The BEST approach is get the singer to control their own sibilance as Holly mentioned. 

But even with well controlled sibilance, things like brightening up a vocal and compressing a vocal will most often make sibilance worse, often requiring some sort of DeEssing along the way. And while I will of course continue to proclaim the Selig DeEsser as the best solution, it's certainly not the only solution!

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

I guess I should chime in here

Thank you so much for responding! I actually went ahead and bit the bullet and bought the DeEsser earlier this evening. I must say, it has helped TREMENDOUSLY on the track I am currently working on, but I am still having a little bit of a hard time getting everything cleaned up. I am going to blame my recording for that issue. But here is my question - though it definitely cleaned things up a bit, I am still having a nasty battle with the "sst" sounds, such as in the word "next." It normally wouldn't be that big of a deal, but the word is used quite frequently in the track. The current chain looks like this: DeEsser, FET Comp, and RE-2A. Is splitting the voice from the siblance going to make that much of a difference, and if so, what would you say is the best approach to quiet those sounds with DeEsser?

Of course, those who do not own my products ask about sales, and some of those who already own them hope I don't have a sale! 

For what it is worth, I would definitely appreciate a sale, as I really would love to have Leveler and Gain. Ever since Navi Retlav's contest I have fallen smitten with Leveler but during the December sale I picked up the FET Comp instead as my "big purchase" as it is normally realllly expensive (relative to my budget, anyways, haha) and I simply would not be able to buy it at its full price. I can honestly say that when I see an RE on sale that I had bought previously for a higher price, it doesn't bother me at all, and I am not sure why anyone else would either. For me, I actually get excited when ones I have bought go on sale because then I can tell my buddies and they can pick up the same REs that I have so that we can collaborate on tracks easier. Please know that I by no means am implying that your REs are not "worth" their price, they are amazing tools and have proven themselves to be invaluable assets to many people's production set up. I also know that products of that caliber and quality take a LOT of time and work, so you definitely deserve to get paid for said time, development, and work. It is just difficult for some people to pick up really nice REs while also supporting those efforts when on an incredibly limited budget.  Thanks again!

[selig]

I guess I should chime in here

Thank you so much for responding! I actually went ahead and bit the bullet and bought the DeEsser earlier this evening. I must say, it has helped TREMENDOUSLY on the track I am currently working on, but I am still having a little bit of a hard time getting everything cleaned up. I am going to blame my recording for that issue. But here is my question - though it definitely cleaned things up a bit, I am still having a nasty battle with the "sst" sounds, such as in the word "next." It normally wouldn't be that big of a deal, but the word is used quite frequently in the track. The current chain looks like this: DeEsser, FET Comp, and RE-2A. Is splitting the voice from the siblance going to make that much of a difference, and if so, what would you say is the best approach to quiet those sounds with DeEsser?

It's hard to say without hearing what you're hearing. Your chain should work fine. Not sure I'm positive what the issue is here - are the "sst" sounds not getting recognized by the DeEsser? It's pretty much an "either/or" device - either it's working, or it's not!

Of course, those who do not own my products ask about sales, and some of those who already own them hope I don't have a sale! 

For what it is worth, I would definitely appreciate a sale, as I really would love to have Leveler and Gain. Ever since Navi Retlav's contest I have fallen smitten with Leveler but during the December sale I picked up the FET Comp instead as my "big purchase" as it is normally realllly expensive (relative to my budget, anyways, haha) and I simply would not be able to buy it at its full price. I can honestly say that when I see an RE on sale that I had bought previously for a higher price, it doesn't bother me at all, and I am not sure why anyone else would either. For me, I actually get excited when ones I have bought go on sale because then I can tell my buddies and they can pick up the same REs that I have so that we can collaborate on tracks easier. Please know that I by no means am implying that your REs are not "worth" their price, they are amazing tools and have proven themselves to be invaluable assets to many people's production set up. I also know that products of that caliber and quality take a LOT of time and work, so you definitely deserve to get paid for said time, development, and work. It is just difficult for some people to pick up really nice REs while also supporting those efforts when on an incredibly limited budget.  Thanks again!

Totally understood!

[hollyn]

The mic and its placement have often surprised me when it comes to sibilance which is what I'm guessing is the lisping you're talking about. If the mic is offset and/or higher than the nose, that could help. Also, I try to swallow or soften Sses, Tsss and the like whenever possible. But I still edit much of them by hand, even after De-essing. On overdubs, I'll often drop them out altogether.

Great Mic placement tips Holly.   We should have a thread about vocals in general. 

Hiya Ed, sorry for the delayed reply! I think I've seen a few vox related threads here or tips within other general recording hints threads.

Lately, I've tried to be more mindful of this than ever before. I received feedback that the sibilance on a track with about 30 vocal channels didn't/doesn't sound natural. So in this case I've attempted to rebuild them by slashing away tools in their inserts. Not happy about that but I hope the outcome will be ok.

Lol, meanwhile, probably to avoid all of that work, I embarked on a new track with very minimal vocals. And I tried several mics to choose the one that minimizes plosives/fricatives/etc at high boosting --- what's working in this case is a senn 441 on the main vocal and a 2nd pass on another channel heavily filtered to bring back in some air.

EDIT: I don't mean to venture off topic. Back to the De-Esser, there must undoubtedly be a way to wield it at a high track count and still get natural-esque results. Probably using each instance sparingly will help, and use more eq filtering when need-be.

[mbfrancis]

I paid full price for the De-esser and don't regret it and use it on almost every track. Where I don't use it on vocals I de-ess my vocal reverb sends. What's fantastic is that it truly *is* set it and forget it....for sibilance. What it *doesn't* do, and what other dynamic EQ type de-esses can do, is things like take the squeak out of acoustic guitar tracks, or de-'honk' a female singer's voice at 2.6k. But that's OK - I use the De-esser combi (also by Selig) for that (you could also use a MBC). One consideration is that it *does* take some CPU, so on my old PC when I was using it on a number of tracks, I turned them all off when mixing, and turned them on for the export.

If you record vocals, and plan to stay in Reason, and have the money, I think it's a no-brainer.

[Aquila]

Maybe it's just me, but I was under the impression that a De-Esser would make a lisp worse, not better.

[JNeffLind]

I am listening to some ideas and suggestions about things to try.

Here's a suggestion. MAKE SOME MORE REs. I WANT MORE!

How about an RE that replaces pluto? (I'm downgrading Neptune to the planet that is no longer a planet, because it is not actually a pitch correction device.)