Selig Flat Headphone Filters (request)

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Kategra
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Post 09 Feb 2015

As Giles demonstrated many times, he understands filters quite well. He also produces great quality REs. I would buy an utility RE made by him and his associates, that would make popular studio headphones sounding flat. No speaker or room simulation would be a must (as that is too complex), just an master insert that would make my ATH-M50 cans sound flat.

EQ plots can be found here http://www.headphone.com/pages/build-a-graph

bobseekone
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Post 09 Feb 2015

That would be a nice tool to have. By the way, thanks for the link to the EQ plots!

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jonheal
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Post 09 Feb 2015

What is this BS from headphones manufacturers about 10-30,000 Hz response?? It looks like virtually every set of headphones cuts off pretty dramatically at 10,000 Hz and is rarely flat below 100Hz.
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QVprod
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Post 09 Feb 2015

I personally find that, making headphones sound flat (as no listening medium truly is) isn't so big of a deal as long as you're listening to reference material. Of course you want the headphones to be a decent enough quality to be able to hear detail when mixing but thats really all thats necessary imo. 

However, If this is really what you want, you don't need some advanced programming to accomplish it. http://www.head-fi.org/a/how-to-equaliz ... a-tutorial

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selig
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Post 09 Feb 2015

QVprod wrote:I personally find that, making headphones sound flat (as no listening medium truly is) isn't so big of a deal as long as you're listening to reference material. Of course you want the headphones to be a decent enough quality to be able to hear detail when mixing but thats really all thats necessary imo. 

However, If this is really what you want, you don't need some advanced programming to accomplish it. http://www.head-fi.org/a/how-to-equaliz ... a-tutorial
interestingly this article states that all headphones need EQ, something HP manufacturers would probably strongly disagree with (or they would have added EQ a long time ago). 

It's more down to a personal preference IMO, since "flat" is relative. For example, I don't naturally add as much high end and mid highs, and tend to add more low bass. So if my listening environment is "flat" I won't mix well. I need a curve that works for ME, and I'm the only one who knows what that actually is - graphs won't help here! 

As for EQ matching, if you're going to go down that road I would suggest a graphic EQ - scratch that, the two graphic EQs in the shop don't show dB values, making it difficult to guess what you're actually getting without doing some math along the way. Proceed if you like, inverting the graphs and applying the values (as close as you can). You'll get the sound of an EQ by running your phones through the EQ, but it may sound better to you than they currently do (or not!). 

IMO best to start with phones that sound good to you without EQ. Disclaimer: I've never felt I needed EQ on my phones, so I'm probably not the best person to ask in the first place!

:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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QVprod
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Post 09 Feb 2015

QVprod wrote:I personally find that, making headphones sound flat (as no listening medium truly is) isn't so big of a deal as long as you're listening to reference material. Of course you want the headphones to be a decent enough quality to be able to hear detail when mixing but thats really all thats necessary imo. 

However, If this is really what you want, you don't need some advanced programming to accomplish it. http://www.head-fi.org/a/how-to-equaliz ... a-tutorial
selig wrote:
interestingly this article states that all headphones need EQ, something HP manufacturers would probably strongly disagree with (or they would have added EQ a long time ago). 

:)
Yeah I did find that odd. But I took that with a grain of salt considering it's a Hi-fi forum and not a pro audio site. I initially thought the same as you as far as doing an inverse curve with graphic EQs.

But alas I bought my headphones for their sound and comfort, Which I think most people do, so changing that sound isn't on my to-do list.

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Post 09 Feb 2015

selig wrote: [ ...... ] As for EQ matching, if you're going to go down that road I would suggest a graphic EQ - scratch that, the two graphic EQs in the shop don't show dB values, making it difficult to guess what you're actually getting without doing some math along the way. Proceed if you like, inverting the graphs and applying the values (as close as you can). You'll get the sound of an EQ by running your phones through the EQ, but it may sound better to you than they currently do (or not!). 

IMO best to start with phones that sound good to you without EQ. Disclaimer: I've never felt I needed EQ on my phones, so I'm probably not the best person to ask in the first place!

:)


I tried to build a filter (combinator patch) as closely as I could to the graph as shown for ATH-M50, then I inverted it with THOR and then mixed it back with the original signal.

I used white noise as source and Spectrum EQ to "validate the results" but when I add the inverted signal back to the original, I get a big dip between 400 HZ - 2 KHz, which makes sense, but it's not the desired result.
So can't figure out how to mix the signals to get the right balance.



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Kategra
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Post 09 Feb 2015

Stupid me, I should have built the inverted graph :) ))

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Marco Raaphorst
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Post 09 Feb 2015

I think the difference between headphones and monitors is mainly:
- blending of frequencies from left to right speakers and vise versa
- the ambience sound of playing sound in a room

But I found out that the only thing that counts is: knowing your equipment. Flat is not interesting. Many superb sounding productions are done on far from flat sounding speaker systems. Sometimes that's even better. Many dub records were done on speakers/monitors lacking low end. That's why the ended up adding cool sounding bass on those old dub records :)



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Post 10 Feb 2015

Yesterday, I got a Focusrite VRM Box for speaker emulation. Helped quite a bit with mixing a song I am working on. Was thinking of building a combinator with MClassEQ to have the signal feeding the VRM with corrective EQ for my ATH-M50 cans.. don't know if will improve anything, I guess you guys are right that mainly it comes down to knowing your equipment.

Thing is that even tough I started making songs 13-14 years ago, only in the last 3 years I've actually bought the "home studio gear" and made lots of "beats", but only 1-2 complete songs per year, because I have a job and not as much free time as I would like for music. And only since I bought Flower Audio Loudness Meter I've started to use other tracks for references. 
If I had the money and time, I would work for free a couple of years in a real studio, I think that would take my producing and mixing skills a lot faster than a 8 hours per week in home studio - solo mode on.


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selig
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Post 10 Feb 2015

I wonder if something like IK's ARC system works on phones? It's pretty much what you're asking, if I'm understanding you correctly. Check it out here:

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/
Selig Audio, LLC

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pushedbutton
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Post 10 Feb 2015


I have a VRM box somewhere. It's not compatible with Balance though, I don't especially miss using it but I suppose they're ok if you like that sort of thing. I should probably find it and put it with my laptop in case I should ever leave the house.
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Using Reason since version 3 and still never finished a song.

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Kategra
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Post 10 Feb 2015

pushedbutton wrote: I have a VRM box somewhere. It's not compatible with Balance though, I don't especially miss using it but I suppose they're ok if you like that sort of thing. I should probably find it and put it with my laptop in case I should ever leave the house.
I use it in conjunction with the Fireface's SPDIF out. So far I think it totally worth it's price, wished it had a mute button though when I check on my monitors so I don't wear out it's volume knob unnecessarily.  

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Post 10 Feb 2015

selig wrote:I wonder if something like IK's ARC system works on phones? It's pretty much what you're asking, if I'm understanding you correctly. Check it out here:

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/
Thanks for posting. Seems interesting, but the fact that it's a plugin throws me of. There seam to be a lot of new products that have room correction, so I guess they will only get better and better with time.

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