As SDKs progress, and older REs become outdated, will their prices drop?

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challism
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Post 26 Jan 2015


Do you guys foresee any RE developers dropping the prices of their older, outdated REs based on SDK 1 and 2.... say once SDK 3, 4, 5, etc are released?
I could see it happening.  Who would want an old, outdated RE unless the price is made more attractive?
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dreampolice
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Post 26 Jan 2015

Do they suddenly function differently?

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zeebot
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Post 26 Jan 2015

I cant see price drops..I can see sales or even SDK updates to devices.
It really doesn't matter what SDK some devices use. I absolutely love Echobode which is SDK1 and is one of my all time fave REs
I have embraced Allihoopa. Come listen and play with my crap Figure loops here:
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challism
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Post 26 Jan 2015

No they don't function any differently.  But as technology (SDK) advances, the older REs will be outdated, similar to the way Reason 1 is outdated compared to Reason 8.  Reason 1 doesn't function any differently, but who wants to buy it for full price when you can have Reason 8, and all its features, for the full $400 price.  You understand what I am saying?  I'm just wondering if you guys think any DEVS would consider dropping their older REs in price as they SDK advances in the years to come.  I'm just curious what the forum thinks about this.
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dreampolice
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Post 26 Jan 2015

No I don't think that's a fair comparison. Tons of great sdk 1 devices will still be great years down the road.

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JoshuaPhilgarlic
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Post 26 Jan 2015

Some REs may be outdated, but most REs don't. TableOscillator V1 for instance is probably outdated, 'cause V2 introduced drawable waveforms instead of faders. But why should a compressor or an EQ or even a synth like Antidote be outdated just 'cause it's still using SDK1? Would updating to SDK2 mean any significant change? I don't think so, so why should devs drop the price??

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zeebot
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Post 26 Jan 2015

dreampolice wrote:No I don't think that's a fair comparison. Tons of great sdk 1 devices will still be great years down the road.
Exactly, SDK1 devices will still work in R12 just as Subtractor still works in R8.
At least thats how props have packaged REs, that they will work in all future versions of Reason.
I have embraced Allihoopa. Come listen and play with my crap Figure loops here:
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They really are crap.

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EnochLight
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Post 26 Jan 2015

challism wrote:No they don't function any differently.  But as technology (SDK) advances, the older REs will be outdated, similar to the way Reason 1 is outdated compared to Reason 8.
Subtractor, NN19, and ReDrum are still as useful today as they were 15 years ago, IMHO.
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

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electrochoc (PRX-A)
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Post 26 Jan 2015

dreampolice wrote:No I don't think that's a fair comparison. Tons of great sdk 1 devices will still be great years down the road.
Well said! It's hard to imagine the FET Compressor becoming outdated!

This said, if you look at the current behavior of RE developers, some price drops are possible. There already has been a few, notably Ozone Maximizer, which dropped from 79$ to 49$. But the strategy might stay a little marginal. The most common way to deal with software devaluation over time in the RE world seems to be: making huge sales from time to time to get some sales over old products.

Softube starts to be an old player, and see what they did. They turned Saturation Knob into a free product lately and made a huge 50% sale on everything. I think that kind of behavior should become the most common one.
This comment is provided courtesy of PRX-A!

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Babul
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Post 26 Jan 2015

its clear that old REs will work in later versions of Reason, indeed.

some things to consider for predicting possible price-evolutions, could be:

1) a new RE version gets released using a new SDK, thats an update worth the similar or even higher price
2) a second version with more functionality gets released, leaving the old v1 device intact, maybe with a voucher code for owners to get the v2 "update" cheaper - while the v1 price stays or can be lowered.
3) as soon the sales stagnate, a price drop will attract more crowd to the market.
4) when there are new platforms to run REs on, more customers will vote with the wallet, leading to 3) again :)

now another question is: can prices RAISE as soon we can sell licences? ..thought about selling a CrapRe for $10000 or highest bid. oh, and it has no scratches!

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avasopht
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Post 26 Jan 2015

Although the SDK matures the Rack Extension doesn't and doesn't need to. That's like saying, should an application designed for windows xp that works perfectly fine on windows 8 be sold for less just because it doesn't use the windows 8 features it doesn't need?

The comparison to old versions of Reason is incorrect also since the newer versions make old versions functionally obsolete, I.e. you can get everything available in R1 as you can in R8, but R8 has more features. Do you see the difference.
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Grinder One
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Post 26 Jan 2015

Of course the price on anything technology wise should drop over the years, it always does in the real world. But in the real world, appliances are built, sold and then discontinued. If you had bought a synth 10 years ago for $1000, the same standard of synth today may cost you $1500 but it's the latest technology and is packed with different features, gadgetry, trends and components. But if for some bizarre reason, the manufacturer had continued to build the synth you bought 10 yeaqrs ago, would they want $1500 for it, no, would they ask that you still pay the original $1000 for it, no, they'd probably let you have it for $300. Which is why manufacturers don't bother to continue building equipment based on old technology.

It makes no odds that it still works the same as it did when it was released, so does a 30 year TV if you were to buy it new but, it would still be old tech and no one in their right mind would even consider buying it. Look how computer components come down in price once the latest is made available. You still pay roughly the same for the latest technology but, you would never pay that price for something that is now 2 years out of date(even if it did still work as it did 2 years ago).

RE developers should make their devices appealing and priced correctly to ensure they get their financial rewards throughout the first year of releasing their device. It's then up to them to continue their own development(as a company), using the lastest SDK's, the latest ideas, the lastest and sexiest routines in C++ etc and either constantly update their device and warrant the pending price tag or, call it finished and create MKII, releasing for the current day's budget whilst offering the older device at a reduced price or even giveaway.

The O/P makes a good example using Reason because, who would pay todays money for Reason 1.0 ? No one. This is why we are now at Reason 8.1, and personally I think every Propellerhead RE should be released free to the Reason version number it was created for...but that's Propellerhead and the current scam dreamed up a few years ago by major software houses, that is labelled 'DLC', and is another story.

So what's the alternative to reducing the price of older RE's ? building a new one and charging more for it....I know which option I'd prefer and it and it baffles me why the consumer using this forum would argue the O/P's point :s0959:

Mart.

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challism
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Post 30 Jan 2015

I'm a bit baffled, too, Mart.  I don't think they fully understand what I am trying to say.  Many of my REs are STK1, and I do love them, but by the time STK 4 and 5 roll around, who knows how much those formats will allow REs to do.  It won't make these early REs perform any different, but in comparison to the new, cutting edge technology, it's a no-brainer that sales of old REs based on STK1 would drop.  If I was a developer with old STK1-based REs, I would most certainly be dropping my price as newer, more advanced REs hit the marketplace.  And we have seen a bit of this already, as pointed out earlier in this thread. 
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QVprod
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Post 30 Jan 2015

challism wrote:I'm a bit baffled, too, Mart.  I don't think they fully understand what I am trying to say.  Many of my REs are STK1, and I do love them, but by the time STK 4 and 5 roll around, who knows how much those formats will allow REs to do.  It won't make these early REs perform any different, but in comparison to the new, cutting edge technology, it's a no-brainer that sales of old REs based on STK1 would drop.  If I was a developer with old STK1-based REs, I would most certainly be dropping my price as newer, more advanced REs hit the marketplace.  And we have seen a bit of this already, as pointed out earlier in this thread. 
Future SDKs don't make current REs obsolete. If there is an improvement that would allow a RE to be more efficient then the developer will probably just update it to be current. You don't see too many legacy versions of plugins for free or cheap. They discontinue it to make way for the newest version (whether that update be free or paid). Therefore there's no real reason to assume prices would drop. Sales don't count. and the Softube Saturation knob, mentioned earlier was only a paid for plugin in Reason (for those who didn't get it free upon its release). All other DAWs that had it, Studio One, Pro Tools 10,...etc... had it for free. They made it free again at the same time they made free AU and VST versions for use in all DAWs...ie; nothing to do with SDK advancements..

You also can't compare versioning. Reason 1.0 is obsolete only because  following versions of Reason were released that included all the features plus additional ones  collectively. And even with that, those obsolete versions were discontinued, not sold for cheaper prices first hand.

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EpiGenetik
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Post 30 Jan 2015

I would say it's fair to suggest that older RE's will come down in price here and there if they are not updated, but only really where there is space for it to come down - meaning that the ones at £10 or £20 etc won't come down, but the likes of Predator, AntiDote and the various Softube plugins will come down a bit unless they are revised/updated - that's just what happens with economics. 

Look at the drop in price of Reason itself, or the drop in price of pretty much everything else once it gets older. This is something of a fact of life for all non-essential items. 

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challism
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Post 30 Jan 2015


I said outdated, not obsolete.  I don't believe I ever used the word obsolete.  There is a difference in the two words.  Anyway, I was just wondering if you guys on this forum foresaw any drops in prices for some SDK1 and 2 REs in the coming 5-10 years.  That's all.  Nothing more.  Outdated, not outdated. Obsolete, not obsolete. Tomato, potato.  I happen to think the older REs will drop in price, if they are not kept up to date with new SDK features.  To each his own, though.  :)   Cheers!
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Aquila
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Post 30 Jan 2015

Given Propellerheads' pricing history on their archaic Recycle software, I doubt it.

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normen
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Post 30 Jan 2015

Hey, if you work at a company for a few years, do you take less money in the end because your work is now "outdated"? The word "outdated" only works for a certain set of things (mainly those that are in the "planned obsolescence" area of things). A shovel doesn't suddenly get "outdated".

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avasopht
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Post 30 Jan 2015

challism wrote: I said outdated, not obsolete.  I don't believe I ever used the word obsolete.  There is a difference in the two words.  Anyway, I was just wondering if you guys on this forum foresaw any drops in prices for some SDK1 and 2 REs in the coming 5-10 years.  That's all.  Nothing more.  Outdated, not outdated. Obsolete, not obsolete. Tomato, potato.  I happen to think the older REs will drop in price, if they are not kept up to date with new SDK features.  To each his own, though.  :)   Cheers!
A kick ass filter with SDK1 is still a kick as filter when SDK4 comes out.

Unless the value of the device decreases why would the price? But err, just remember that spider man issue #1 is worth more than any recent iteration, as are old and dated star wars toys from the 70's. A Rolex tends to keep it's value, and Gucci watches can increase in value.

My copy of Gujarat Gunstar Heroes on the Sega genesis is worth more than when I bought it.

Price is determined by value itself :)
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Lizard
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Post 30 Jan 2015

Only reverberating many of the comments here I can only feel that a device well designed remains well designed for the rest of its life.  Much vintage equipment is still well sought after than newer high tech stuff because of what it is and not how much newer it is.  May not be the best analogy for software but still resonates.  In time some Re that sold really well may reach a peak and suddenly drop sales because everyone who would want it already does.  Sales or lower prices may come to sweeten the deal but I would think that is not because the SDK has improved. 

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orthodox
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Post 30 Jan 2015

challism wrote: Do you guys foresee any RE developers dropping the prices of their older, outdated REs based on SDK 1 and 2.... say once SDK 3, 4, 5, etc are released? I could see it happening.  Who would want an old, outdated RE unless the price is made more attractive?
I think prices on REs are inelastic below the current (already low) values, i.e. you won't get more income, even quantity by lowering them. That's due to inherently limited market. You can only drop the market altogether.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

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