To Ozone or no to Ozone?

[Julibee]

I have Ozone, and I use it, and it's great-- with the caveat that too much is TOO MUCH. It can be very harsh, and I don't always catch it as being a problem when I've been mixing for hours. So... I try to err in the side of caution when I'm using it. Will be looking at Onyx, if the consensus is that it's more mellow. That would be swell.

Also, just a word to the wise, Ozone does seem to be a cpu hog-- it's better to mix withOUT it, and just turn it on at the end. You don't really want to mix through it, anyway. That's a last step sort of a thing. Bypass it until you are done. Plus, it's super fun to work your ass off making an awesome mix, getting everything just right... And becoming used to the sound, thinking this is great, etc... And then turn on Ozone. BAM. Super fun. Just don't get carried away....

[ScuzzyEye]

Also, just a word to the wise, Ozone does seem to be a cpu hog-- it's better to mix withOUT it, and just turn it on at the end.

I agree with this. If you're just wanting to keep the clip light off, switch it to hard clipping, and turn off all the other features. The inter-sample limiting requires a lot of CPU, and the dithering too. Both of which are powerful features, and belong on a finale export, but you can leave them off until that time.

[ryanharlin]

Since 2012 or whenever it came out, not a single thing has been exported out of Reason for me without passing through Ozone.

[ryanharlin]

and the dithering too. Both of which are powerful features, and belong on a finale export, but you can leave them off until that time.

Another word of advice... if you use the dithering on Ozone make sure you UNCHECK the Dither box on Reason's audio export (if you're exporting 16bit audio). Otherwise your dithering twice. And while dithering is a good thing - doing it twice is, by all objective measures, NOT a good thing.

[michael.jaye]

Any one here using Ozone and Mclass together? I find sometimes they work great in a chain.

[selig]

Any one here using Ozone and Mclass together? I find sometimes they work great in a chain.

MClass Maximizer colors the sound too much for me, something I didn't fully appreciate until I compared it to Ozone. 

Like Ryan, nothing leaves my Reason rack that doesn't pass through Ozone at the end of the line.

[selig]

I have Ozone, and I use it, and it's great-- with the caveat that too much is TOO MUCH. It can be very harsh, and I don't always catch it as being a problem when I've been mixing for hours. So... I try to err in the side of caution when I'm using it. Will be looking at Onyx, if the consensus is that it's more mellow. That would be swell. Also, just a word to the wise, Ozone does seem to be a cpu hog-- it's better to mix withOUT it, and just turn it on at the end. You don't really want to mix through it, anyway. That's a last step sort of a thing. Bypass it until you are done. Plus, it's super fun to work your ass off making an awesome mix, getting everything just right... And becoming used to the sound, thinking this is great, etc... And then turn on Ozone. BAM. Super fun. Just don't get carried away....

Too much of ANYTHING, including water and oxygen, is a bad thing!

If you try to get loud mixes by limiting alone, there's probably not a limiter around that can do it cleanly. Even for my "loudest" mixes, Ozone only hits 6 dB of GR max, typically 3-4 dB. That's all I need, since every choice I made from choosing the first sound was made with overall loudness in mind. If the mix you feed to Ozone is already "loud" (more average, less peak energy), Ozone (and any limiter) can handle it much easier and more transparently. 

I would guess that's why some folks say "it distorts" (or similar), though I've yet to hear it on any of my projects.

[ambeant]

I have Ozone, and I use it, and it's great-- with the caveat that too much is TOO MUCH. It can be very harsh, and I don't always catch it as being a problem when I've been mixing for hours. So... I try to err in the side of caution when I'm using it. Will be looking at Onyx, if the consensus is that it's more mellow. That would be swell. Also, just a word to the wise, Ozone does seem to be a cpu hog-- it's better to mix withOUT it, and just turn it on at the end. You don't really want to mix through it, anyway. That's a last step sort of a thing. Bypass it until you are done. Plus, it's super fun to work your ass off making an awesome mix, getting everything just right... And becoming used to the sound, thinking this is great, etc... And then turn on Ozone. BAM. Super fun. Just don't get carried away....

I hear this alot about Ozone, when I try both Onyx and Ozone side by side, to me it appears that Ozone sounds like it's in a box even when the character is faster. The loudness goal I shoot for is around -6dB to -3dB average loudness(Shrillex or loudness war levels) but have more harsh artifacts in Ozone. Onyx on the other hand sounds more balanced, lively, and can reach -3dB average and still sound smooth, gluey, and retains it's shape. It depends on what sound the artist personally likes, some like the cold boxy digital sound and others like a more livey smooth sound. Personally I like the Onyx sound.  

[ambeant]

This is how I rank Reason's limiters from best to worst as far as sound quality vs loudness, etc


1) Onyx Tube Limiter - iox Audioware (tube/digital analog modelled limiting + ISP)

2) Ozone Limiter - iZotope (soft/hard digital limiting + ISP + dither)

3) Titan Maximizer - iox Audioware (saturation + soft limit/clipper)

4) MClass Maximizer - Propellerhead (digital limiting + soft clip limit)

5) Pises Limiter - J-Yul Sound (tube model limiting)

[hydlide]

MClass Maximizer colors the sound too much for me, something I didn't fully appreciate until I compared it to Ozone. 

Like Ryan, nothing leaves my Reason rack that doesn't pass through Ozone at the end of the line.

I'll agree and disagree with you at the same time if you will. I like the outcome of ozone. Same goes with maximizing with other plugs and so on. But sometimes I like to MClass Maximize myself too.
Its like using different filters if you will. Every LP Filter (Etch Red/ thor / Malstrom / Subtractor, i'll just name these) will have a different take on the Low Pass filter.
Same can be said for maximizer. I will give you that it "colors" the sound in a specific direction. But sometimes I like to give just this "touch", in that specific direction.

This is one of the reasons why I sometimes pick a different maximizer for the final output. Sometimes I rewire the whole song and process it through there. Basically because of the same thing I am addressing over here.

[selig]

MClass Maximizer colors the sound too much for me, something I didn't fully appreciate until I compared it to Ozone. 

Like Ryan, nothing leaves my Reason rack that doesn't pass through Ozone at the end of the line.

I'll agree and disagree with you at the same time if you will. I like the outcome of ozone. Same goes with maximizing with other plugs and so on. But sometimes I like to MClass Maximize myself too.
Its like using different filters if you will. Every LP Filter (Etch Red/ thor / Malstrom / Subtractor, i'll just name these) will have a different take on the Low Pass filter.
Same can be said for maximizer. I will give you that it "colors" the sound in a specific direction. But sometimes I like to give just this "touch", in that specific direction.

This is one of the reasons why I sometimes pick a different maximizer for the final output. Sometimes I rewire the whole song and process it through there. Basically because of the same thing I am addressing over here.

Well, I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with since I said it was too much color "for me" - I'm pretty sure I'm 100% correct on that fact!

But seriously, I totally get your "horses for courses" comment - I'm just currently not running any courses that would benefit from the Maximizer's strengths. But (among other things) it's soft clipper is pretty damn cool when you need that effect, for sure.

[Janvier]

But what are the alternatives, if any, at this price point? Or should I spend more on an alternative RE & get something better / more capable? 

Im using that LANDR services to master my content ! A no brainer thing ! 

[raymondh]

I really like Ozone RE too.  The different algorithms are really useful, there's no single algorithm that works best for all mixes.

I normally put it after an M-Class compressor and also a Softube Saturation knob for adding a bit more warmth.


Has anyone tried the standalone Ozone 6 for mastering, compared to using the Ozone RE? 
(Or even Ozone 5 in a VST host for that matter).

[hydlide]

Well, I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with since I said it was too much color "for me" - I'm pretty sure I'm 100% correct on that fact!

I'll nod an agree
I don't think there is a need to go all side track about this one.

[selig]

But what are the alternatives, if any, at this price point? Or should I spend more on an alternative RE & get something better / more capable? 

Im using that

LANDR

 services to master my content ! A no brainer thing ! 

Or you could just slap a maximizer and a smily EQ curve on it!
/ducking/running…

[Grooq]

Since we are talking about the very last step in the signal chain, this is what could easily be done outside Reason as well, even without rewiring.  My hearing is not sophisticated yet so I would appreciate any opinion on comparing the available Reason limiters with some free vst limiters, especially Loudmax (transparent) and Limiter No.6 (colouring), both are said to be really great devices.

[ScuzzyEye]

It could be done outside of Reason, as long as you make sure there's no peaks over 0 dBfs. Reason uses 32-bit floating point audio throughout, but can at most export 24-bit. So having a limiter as the last device gives you control of how the overs are handled.

[Grooq]

Is there ANY practical or theoretical way, apart from brickwall limiting, of making sure there is no sound over 0 db when exporting?

[Ocean of Waves]

I already have the vst suite so I never tried out the RE.

[Dabbler]

Is there ANY practical or theoretical way, apart from brickwall limiting, of making sure there is no sound over 0 db when exporting?

On practical way is to export the song and open it in Audacity.
If it’s clipped then lower the main fader and re-export.
Repeat until the desired level is obtained.

[selig]

Is there ANY practical or theoretical way, apart from brickwall limiting, of making sure there is no sound over 0 db when exporting?

If the clip lights are on after playing your track through, there's clipping.

(self promotion mode ON)
Selig Gain (and other REs) can actually show you the dB amount that you are over/under the clipping point in your mix. If you play the mix and it shows +3 dB, you need to lower your mix by (at least) 3 dB. 

But my goodness, why can't Reason itself show simple (and useful) things like this?!?

[gullum]

(self promotion mode ON)
Selig Gain (and other REs) can actually show you the dB amount that you are over/under the clipping point in your mix. If you play the mix and it shows +3 dB, you need to lower your mix by (at least) 3 dB. 

And for that very reason I have Gain as last device in my mastering chain  
And by the way Giles is there any way to Remote map the Peak Hold display to have it show on my Controllers display?

Ozone was one of the first RE's but after I got Onyx I hardly ever use Ozone anymore just like Onyx better, just simpler to me to use and get what I want.

[ambeant]

(self promotion mode ON)
Selig Gain (and other REs) can actually show you the dB amount that you are over/under the clipping point in your mix. If you play the mix and it shows +3 dB, you need to lower your mix by (at least) 3 dB. 

And for that very reason I have Gain as last device in my mastering chain  
And by the way Giles is there any way to Remote map the Peak Hold display to have it show on my Controllers display?

Ozone was one of the first RE's but after I got Onyx I hardly ever use Ozone anymore just like Onyx better, just simpler to me to use and get what I want.

IMHHHO:
I agree and will acknowledge the difference of the two, izotope Ozone is an "industry" standard according to today's music industry propaganda, "which itself is almost non-existent nowadays" ,but metaphysically and epistemologically... "Ozone RE kinda sucks compared to Onyx RE, a translation to the VST world would probably still kick OZONE 4,5,6 maximizer's ass , even in Intelligent Release Control III" .   .

Key note:
When PH resolves the aliasing issues in Thor, Maestrome, Substactor and other issues with filters and FFT, I predict they will be the DOMINANT DAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW!!! :s0230:  [TRUTH MODE OFF]

[selig]

(self promotion mode ON)
Selig Gain (and other REs) can actually show you the dB amount that you are over/under the clipping point in your mix. If you play the mix and it shows +3 dB, you need to lower your mix by (at least) 3 dB. 

And for that very reason I have Gain as last device in my mastering chain  
And by the way Giles is there any way to Remote map the Peak Hold display to have it show on my Controllers display?

Ozone was one of the first RE's but after I got Onyx I hardly ever use Ozone anymore just like Onyx better, just simpler to me to use and get what I want.

I use Gain 'second to last' in my master chain, with Ozone being absolutely the last device before the Hardware Interface.

As to your question, there's no way to send that sort of information from REs, sorry. But it certainly would be cool if it could be done.

[Theo.M]

Hmm, i have been putting onyx through it's paces and it's not suitable for final mix edm mastering at all. The transient smear/mush is incredible to say the least.. i have never heard this before in any other pro limiter. It unfortunately, to my ear, completely ruins the mix. I was certainly wrong about it as i hadn't really put it through it's paces like this before. It has some non transient bus and single track uses in certain cases, as well as some warming up duties with it's tube mode, but compared to ozone as a final master limiter? Not even close. Ozone is louder to top it all off.. preserves better at more volume.. overall no contest.