The FIRST RED 70 Synth post

[challism]

Red 70 just hit the shop

[manisnotabird]

Am I missing anything thing or is the "band" (or band regulator) knob anything more than a coarse pitch adjustment?

[bsp]

Playing around with this synth a bit more, I found what seems to be two major bugs regarding the mod envelope:

1)
Apparently the mod envelope does not reset when a new note is triggered and the last triggered note was not hold down long enough to reach the mod env sustain level.

The expected behaviour is that the mod env slowly fades in the vibrato (via mod2 = LFO2 => OSC1 Band, the mod env modulates "mod amount 2"), and resets every time a note is triggered.

What actually happens is that the mod env is continued when a new note is triggered, except when the last note has reached the sustain level.


2)
The displayed mod envelope times are wrong. The attack in the patch is set to last 18110ms but it actually lasts only ~5000ms.

A similiar thing happens with the amp envelope: When the attack time is set to 22222ms, it only lasts ~8000ms in actual time (i.e. also off by ~factor 3).


Please find attached a patch that demonstrates both issues.

[boobytrap]

And it sounds glorious

very soft and elementary level sound engine and structure. nothing new !

[eXode]

Playing around with this synth a bit more, I found what seems to be two major bugs regarding the mod envelope. Please find attached a patch that demonstrates both issues.

I can't check the patch right now, but have you made sure the synth is set to retrigger, and not legato mode?

[bsp]

Playing around with this synth a bit more, I found what seems to be two major bugs regarding the mod envelope. Please find attached a patch that demonstrates both issues.

I can't check the patch right now, but have you made sure the synth is set to retrigger, and not legato mode?

The issue occurs in both modes (just double checked it). Nice demo-patches, btw!

[joeyluck]

I enjoy the Ivoks more, but do not own it. However, I would buy the Ivoks if it had a polyphonic mode.

[Exowildebeest]

I will maintain that this synth sounds glorious, even thought the architecture, despite some cool quirks, is fairly conventional.

With this and iVoks, Red Rock has really impressed me with their capability to create fantastic "analog" sounding synths.

Of course Red70 needs some bugfixing and I have my own feature requests... but even as it is, it's bloody good imo.

[Heater]

When I do a init. The tune knob switches to 64 which is sharp. WFT.

[bsp]

I like the synth's sound as well (and bought it).

However, I found another bug.

If you listen to the attached patch, every 4th note (voice count is 4) sounds wrong.

Loading another patch, then reverting to the test patch makes the "wrong" voice sound different (but never the same as the others).

Basically, changing the voice count to "n" makes every "nth" voice sound wrong (or maybe "n-1" voices sound wrong?)

This definitely needs some debugging, more testing, and eventually an update

EDIT: I just found out that whether this bug triggers or not really depends on the previously loaded patch. It does _not_ occur when this patch is the first one loaded in a new instance of RED70. It always occurs if the previously loaded patch is e.g. "red70_debug_me.repatch" (see above)

[Dance FX 21]

Another slight issue - the CV for the VCA acts as a gain reduction (the higher the parameter value, the lower the volume) - is this right?

Overall, I'm very happy with the synth - it's so clean and user friendly. I'm actually using it for my latest track for next month though it may be one synth too many for the CPU - the track was already pretty heavy - I've an i5 Mac Book Pro.


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[bsp]

I noticed the same thing today while doing some drum programming. Had to insert an "Equation Jr" to fix the CV to (cos(0) - CV).

On that occasion, I found out that you can overdrive the filter inputs really hard by modulating the OSC levels with insanely high CV signals (e.g. multiplied by 100) -- Quite useful for kick drums!

[mbfrancis]

I like this synth, it's kind of cool. Nice retro sounds, nothing ground-breaking. But the "pan spread" knob is obnoxious...instead of spreading the patch, it spreads the with alternating voices, so if you keep playing a note it jumps back and forth, and if you play a 4-note chord two voices are on the left and two are on the right. Who would ever want this feature vs. spreading the oscillators?

[Benedict]

This is a sort of "classic" (read 90's) sampler option. A single voice Analog OSC can't spread. Red 70 does the usual spread when in Unison mode. It is just a bonus feature. You wouldn't use it on your piano line but you may use it on an ARP or Sfx

[Massimo]

Trying to modulate the filter cutoff with the modulation matrix (Keyboard>Main filter cutoff)...and it behaves strange...both in mono or multiple voices...press a key...and press an higher note...the filter would set the new frequency for both notes...higher and lower..looks like the mono filter from the old Korg Poly 800?!

[mbfrancis]

This is a sort of "classic" (read 90's) sampler option. A single voice Analog OSC can't spread. Red 70 does the usual spread when in Unison mode. It is just a bonus feature. You wouldn't use it on your piano line but you may use it on an ARP or Sfx

Fair enough, I get that you can't spread something you're not doubling, but it's used on almost every patch.

[eXode]

Trying to modulate the filter cutoff with the modulation matrix (Keyboard>Main filter cutoff)...and it behaves strange...both in mono or multiple voices...press a key...and press an higher note...the filter would set the new frequency for both notes...higher and lower..looks like the mono filter from the old Korg Poly 800?!

I've reported this as a bug. It's not the filter but the mod source.

[eXode]

I like this synth, it's kind of cool. Nice retro sounds, nothing ground-breaking. But the "pan spread" knob is obnoxious...instead of spreading the patch, it spreads the with alternating voices, so if you keep playing a note it jumps back and forth, and if you play a 4-note chord two voices are on the left and two are on the right. Who would ever want this feature vs. spreading the oscillators?

This is a sort of "classic" (read 90's) sampler option. A single voice Analog OSC can't spread. Red 70 does the usual spread when in Unison mode. It is just a bonus feature. You wouldn't use it on your piano line but you may use it on an ARP or Sfx

There was also an option in some poly synths like the Oberheim OBX/OBxa/OB8 and possibly the Jupiter 8. These synths had stereo outputs because you could choose to pan individual voices in the stereo field. This usually required tweaking the actual voice card in some of these cases. Some synths such as the Oberheim Xpander/Matrix 12 I believe allowed for this programming directly from the interface (through menu diving)

Finally the modern polyphonic synths from Dave Smith (Poly Evolver, Prophet 08, Prophet 6) also has a PAN SPREAD that acts the same way as in RED70. Basically it's an easy way for getting a wide stereo sound when playing chords. A feature I personally appreciate.

[Dance FX 21]

I like this synth, it's kind of cool. Nice retro sounds, nothing ground-breaking. But the "pan spread" knob is obnoxious...instead of spreading the patch, it spreads the with alternating voices, so if you keep playing a note it jumps back and forth, and if you play a 4-note chord two voices are on the left and two are on the right. Who would ever want this feature vs. spreading the oscillators?

With an arpeggiator, the pan spread is brilliant - maybe a Manual Pan mode (modulated via matrix) should be added for chords etc with the current setup retained as an AutoPan mode.


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[Namahs Amrak]

Not sure if my drink has been spiked, but does this synth drift out of tune? Very strange, perhaps I'm going mad.

Although Im sure I hear the same thing with that old soviet monstrosity the IVOKS also.

I imagine drifting frequencies (or phase) might happen on a faulty hardware synth... but on a softsynth?

[Faastwalker]

Any word on the Master Tune thing yet I why the default is a 1/4 note out?! (I think it's a 1/4 note out. It's look this way when analysing the output with Reason's own tuning tool).

[pLansford]

I'm getting staticy clicky noises when I move the Master Volume...?

Edit: practical application would be 4/4 automation for a sub bass. Buzz kill...going to sleep.

[raymondh]

Listening to the demo videos, I nearly passed this up. But I thought I'd try the demo, and the patches are fantastic. Started programming it from scratch and find it really easy to program! The filter isn't as good as Antidote (to my ears), but otherwise very nice sound and quite a versatile synth!

[Namahs Amrak]

Listening to the demo videos, I nearly passed this up.

SInce playing around with this in the last hour (started a second song, accommodating for the pitch issue) I am about to pass this up. I have decided that clunky old synths just aren't my thing

Time to discover the Zero !

[Benedict]

Zero and Red are definitely polar (ti hi) opposites. But each definitely has its attractions.