Rack developers tagging their RE patches in R13

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mon
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Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Post 07 Jul 2024

Hello good (and bad :D) people,
I'm curious whether we can expect RE developers to begin tagging the patches included with their products, or if the tagging system is beyond their capability? Another question that's been on my mind is whether there's a way to transfer my custom tags from one computer to another.

Have a great day, everyone! :)
:reason: 13

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turn2on
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Post 07 Jul 2024

Reason 13 have RE devices tags
All RE that was been released before R13, already have device category tags, that RS add.
Developers with new SDK 4.5.0 now can add device categories to own REs.

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Loque
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Post 07 Jul 2024

turn2on wrote:
07 Jul 2024
Reason 13 have RE devices tags
All RE that was been released before R13, already have device category tags, that RS add.
Developers with new SDK 4.5.0 now can add device categories to own REs.
While I appreciate this, OP was talking about tags for patches.
Do you have any insides?
Reason13, Win10

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mon
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Post 07 Jul 2024

Sorry for the typo in the title. I meant rack developers, not delivers :?
:reason: 13

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Loque
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Post 07 Jul 2024

mon wrote:
07 Jul 2024
Sorry for the typo in the title. I meant rack developers, not delivers :?
Fixed
Reason13, Win10

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mon
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Post 07 Jul 2024

Loque wrote:
07 Jul 2024
mon wrote:
07 Jul 2024
Sorry for the typo in the title. I meant rack developers, not delivers :?
Fixed
Thank you :)
:reason: 13

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turn2on
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Post 08 Jul 2024

about tags for patches? All possibilities for devs of RE, is the same to users.
Users can add Tags and categories to patches.
Developers, before make RE build, can locally add to patches categories and tags in the same way as users. So, device presets can include tags and categories, if developer interested to do it in new update of RE or new RE.
tag2.png

This can be really helpful, if synth have already tagged Pads, Leads, etc.. from other side, all RE synths already (usually) have categorised folders. This is good option of Tags to patches. But this possible in future updates and REs from devs, or users can make all the same manual

I think users can find tagged patches much later, because R13 and SDK 450 only;y released today, and now is period of summer vacation. Devs can rebuild RE with updated patches with Tags, and this updates or RE can be released near to September at early.
More question is, does devs coming to tags for patches, or not with their devices. Device Tags is required for new devices, tags for patches - is how devs look to this in own products.
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mon
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Post 08 Jul 2024

turn2on wrote:
08 Jul 2024
about tags for patches? All possibilities for devs of RE, is the same to users.
Users can add Tags and categories to patches.
Developers, before make RE build, can locally add to patches categories and tags in the same way as users. So, device presets can include tags and categories, if developer interested to do it in new update of RE or new RE.

tag2.png


This can be really helpful, if synth have already tagged Pads, Leads, etc.. from other side, all RE synths already (usually) have categorised folders. This is good option of Tags to patches. But this possible in future updates and REs from devs, or users can make all the same manual

I think users can find tagged patches much later, because R13 and SDK 450 only;y released today, and now is period of summer vacation. Devs can rebuild RE with updated patches with Tags, and this updates or RE can be released near to September at early.
More question is, does devs coming to tags for patches, or not with their devices. Device Tags is required for new devices, tags for patches - is how devs look to this in own products.
Thanks a lot for the reply. So the tags could be coming "baked" with a Rack Extension? I am asking because I want to understand where the tags are stored. If the tags are inside a file within Reason's folders, they should be out of reach for RE developers. The only way I can think of for distributing REs with tags is if the system is not centralized and each third-party extension comes bundled with tagged patches inside itself.
:reason: 13

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turn2on
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Post 08 Jul 2024

Devs (RS or 3rd part) can add Cats/Tags locally, and at this stage I not have answer, because RS on vacation now, and Recon (reason for devs) have some troubles with Tags/Cats.

Date, info, any native patch data always fixed to its build.
When we add locally Cats/Tags, data not written to patches.

How devs can mark Cats/Tags of patches don't know and need to wait some info from RS. If this already relized by RS for stock devices (SubTractor), this must be possible for REs.

Here we can change SubTractor patch "Bass Guitar"
Снимок экрана 2024-07-08 в 14.39.49.png
and add "Staff Pick" as example. After this, patch show main info of patch, without any changes. Data not written to patch. But new categories and tags - stored locally (outside from original patches)

So, info about Cats/Tags write locally by user (Reason browser in some place).
Снимок экрана 2024-07-08 в 14.39.49.png
But not have results how to save it for RE patch locally and include this to RE build, to have what used for SubTractor patches (Cats/Tags).
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Loque
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Post 08 Jul 2024

I guess I have maybe 50000 RE patches coming with the factory library and probably another 1000 from my own stuff. Too bad they are not tagged.
Reason13, Win10

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turn2on
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Post 08 Jul 2024

How did you live before R13?))
Not a big tragedy, you can add it in the patches you touch

Of course can be cool to automate process (get from patch name and folder something near to cats/tags). But we don't know where and how written tags data

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Pepin
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Post 08 Jul 2024

User-customized tags are written to rs_user_metadata.dat, which is in the new Metadata folder (on Windows that's C:\Users\[username]\Music\Reason Studios\Metadata).
It's an SQLite database, so you can take a look yourself with various tools.
It appears to have tag/category data for "overrides" (customizations to factory patches, refills, and RE patch banks) and "user files" (tags/categories for your own patches).
It does not contain the default tag assignments, so it's empty on a fresh install.

I haven't tried it myself, but I would guess the "overrides" will transfer nicely to another machine since they're all relative paths, but the "user files" might break since they're absolute. This is probably part of the motivation behind the new User Library folder. By keeping your patches there, the entire tag database will transfer nicely to a new machine (at least if you don't change username or OS).

Also note that I don't use Reason+, so I don't know how those patches fit into the picture.

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Pepin
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Post 08 Jul 2024

Investigating a little further, the default categories/tags are in these locations (or similar for macOS):
R+ Packs: C:\Program Files\Propellerhead\Reason 13\Metadata\pack
RE patch banks: C:\Program Files\Propellerhead\Reason 13\Metadata\rackext
Factory ReFills: C:\Program Files\Propellerhead\Reason 13\Metadata\refill

Each of those is filled with ".rsmeta" files, which are human readable. They contain about what you'd expect.

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mon
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Post 08 Jul 2024

Pepin wrote:
08 Jul 2024
Investigating a little further, the default categories/tags are in these locations (or similar for macOS):
R+ Packs: C:\Program Files\Propellerhead\Reason 13\Metadata\pack
RE patch banks: C:\Program Files\Propellerhead\Reason 13\Metadata\rackext
Factory ReFills: C:\Program Files\Propellerhead\Reason 13\Metadata\refill

Each of those is filled with ".rsmeta" files, which are human readable. They contain about what you'd expect.
Wow! Thank you for you time and effort! It is really helpful!
:reason: 13

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turn2on
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Post 08 Jul 2024

@Pepin, thank You.

But not think that we really need in dive to this files. May be solution for devs much more easy.
What also can be find:

/Users/username/Music/Reason Studios/Metadata
rs_user_metadata.dat
rs_user_metadata.dat-shm
rs_user_metadata.dat-wal

If we look to
Reason.app/Contents/Resources/Metadata/rackext
Here list of ReasonStudios devices as .rsmeta files that have info about all .repatch for this device with info about Tags/Cats/RE Author, etc.
More interesting to know how to save this cats/tags for RackExtension build, but this is must come to developer topic

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mon
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Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Post 08 Jul 2024

turn2on wrote:
08 Jul 2024
@Pepin, thank You.

But not think that we really need in dive to this files. May be solution for devs much more easy.
What also can be find:

/Users/username/Music/Reason Studios/Metadata
rs_user_metadata.dat
rs_user_metadata.dat-shm
rs_user_metadata.dat-wal

If we look to
Reason.app/Contents/Resources/Metadata/rackext
Here list of ReasonStudios devices as .rsmeta files that have info about all .repatch for this device with info about Tags/Cats/RE Author, etc.
More interesting to know how to save this cats/tags for RackExtension build, but this is must come to developer topic
I really hope RS will open this possibility to the developers. If not, they will miss a big part of the potential usefulness of the tagging system. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
:reason: 13

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Loque
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Post 09 Jul 2024

The new features in R13.0.1 give hint...maybe there is something in the packs, which give insights how to tag 3rd party patches...

Screenshot 2024-07-09 133007.jpg
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Reason13, Win10

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mon
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Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Post 09 Jul 2024

Loque wrote:
09 Jul 2024
The new features in R13.0.1 give hint...maybe there is something in the packs, which give insights how to tag 3rd party patches...


Screenshot 2024-07-09 133007.jpg
Thanks for the info. Fingers crossed 🤞
:reason: 13

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turn2on
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Post 10 Jul 2024

This not be announced anyway.
At current moment, only RS Rack Extensions have .rsmeta files, included with build of Reason app.
Only toughs: the same files from devs of all 3rd part RE can be included here. But logic is wrong, because devs regular create new devices, and process of tags addition to device patches cant be into Reason app sources, as it now work for RS REs. May be we just need to wait some additions for this later.

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buddard
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Post 10 Jul 2024

turn2on wrote:
10 Jul 2024
This not be announced anyway.
At current moment, only RS Rack Extensions have .rsmeta files, included with build of Reason app.
Only toughs: the same files from devs of all 3rd part RE can be included here. But logic is wrong, because devs regular create new devices, and process of tags addition to device patches cant be into Reason app sources, as it now work for RS REs. May be we just need to wait some additions for this later.
Please refer to the email entitled "New Rack Extension requirement: categories" sent to all RE developers on June 11th, where it says the following near the end:
Reason Studios wrote: We are also working on a feature for adding and exporting categories and tags for content included in your Rack Extension or ReFill (patches, loops, and samples). This will be released and further detailed in the near future and we kindly ask for your patience with this.
(I also posted a copy of the email in its entirety on the official developer forum)

So this is a feature that unfortunately didn't make it in time for 13.0, but is definitely being worked on. :puf_smile:

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mon
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Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Post 10 Jul 2024

buddard wrote:
10 Jul 2024
turn2on wrote:
10 Jul 2024
This not be announced anyway.
At current moment, only RS Rack Extensions have .rsmeta files, included with build of Reason app.
Only toughs: the same files from devs of all 3rd part RE can be included here. But logic is wrong, because devs regular create new devices, and process of tags addition to device patches cant be into Reason app sources, as it now work for RS REs. May be we just need to wait some additions for this later.
Please refer to the email entitled "New Rack Extension requirement: categories" sent to all RE developers on June 11th, where it says the following near the end:
Reason Studios wrote: We are also working on a feature for adding and exporting categories and tags for content included in your Rack Extension or ReFill (patches, loops, and samples). This will be released and further detailed in the near future and we kindly ask for your patience with this.
(I also posted a copy of the email in its entirety on the official developer forum)

So this is a feature that unfortunately didn't make it in time for 13.0, but is definitely being worked on. :puf_smile:
This is really great news! Thanks for sharing, Buddard!
:reason: 13


aquil
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Location: Germany

Post 21 Jul 2024

It would be interesting if the browser indexer could possibly capture such meta files as well. This way, community-driven metadata for categories and tags for 3rd party refills could be created and included in the index. Similarly, you could tag your own sample library with it, so you wouldn't be forced to back up the index database for manual tag and category assignments after a new installation.

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