Propellerheads PolyStep Sequencer

[max|waves]

16 steps? It is not enough. No, thanks. RB Sequences has 32 steps and a convenient pianoroll.

Good spot. 1:0 for RB.

But PH has CV. It has CVVVVVVVeeeehhhh!!! So i guess it is 1:1.

...and racheting, so 2:1 for PH

[TritoneAddiction]

Sorry for being a total downer here, but honestly, I'm not too sold on devices like this. Imo you'll be much better off by learning some basics about scales/modes, chords, how chord progressions work. It will free you up musically instead of having to rely on crutches like these. Yes it will take a little more effort but it's not that complicated. And you'll be able to use that knowledge for the rest of your musical life. And it doesn't cost anything.

The demos sound "ok", but I can't help but feel like most of the chords/arpeggios have been put there by a, well some sort of chord sequencer, which is fine if you dig that sound. But to me it just doesn't sound that natural or that each note choice has been put there deliberately. Or if it's not the note choice problem it's that it sounds stiff, like a machine is playing it.

I agree but it's less of a problem once you send midi to track and randomize note on, velocity etc. and add shuffle.
I consider this RE a sketching pad for songwriting. Huge bonus points for the occasional arp and strum you can put effortless in there.
I resisted buying all of PHs recent devices, but this one might be an exception.

I know these devices have there place and can be a great tool for many people.
I'd probably be more positive about this one if Propellerheads own demos sounded convincing to me. They are experts at their own devices after all.

We all have our areas where we use these "crutches". For me it's using mostly presets as a starting point. Someone could easily make the same argument. Just learn to tweak your synth and you don't have to rely on trying to find fitting presets.

[Boombastix]

Imo you'll be much better off by learning some basics about scales/modes, chords, how chord progressions work.

Yes and No. Because even an accomplished keyboard player playing / inventing a chord progression uses up most of the brain capacity to play in time, get the voicings correct, not missing keys, etc. The brain is tapped out while playing and it is nearly impossible to critically listen to what is coming out. That is why pro producers hire keyboard players, even if they can play themselves, so they can just listen to what is played, and direct the keyboardist, like "yes! that's it", when a nice sequence comes, or "more of that", or "try something like" this and hum a few notes.

This kind of player can be a useful tool also for the most accomplished keyboard players and use it as a "hired musician", you put in stuff mess around with it and use nearly 100% of your brain just to listen and envision how the played sequence will fit into a final composition/arrangement with other instruments. And a truly brilliant player can then of course re-play the new composition for that human feel if the music needs it. But it can be a composition tool for both noobs and accomplished keyboard player, but you use it differently. Though I think it kinda needs to be able to handle out of scale chords is some functional way to fit pro-users (don't know yet if it does). Otherwise PB Scaler or ChordBank might be more reasonable ways to mess around with out of scale chords in "similar" workflow.

[TritoneAddiction]

Sorry for being a total downer here, but honestly, I'm not too sold on devices like this.

You're probably a person, who can quickly translate what they have in their head (musically ) into actual notes & sounds. But many of us - myself included - aren't like that. We usually stumble via trial-and-error until we find a creative spark, upon which we can build stuff up. Listening critically to music for over 30 years I know what sounds good and can - given time - replicate any complex melody or chord progression, but it's - like I said - a process of guided trial-and-error and redundant approximation of what I hear in my head.

And sure, I could probably learn theory and learn to play an instrument. But my music doesn't really require that, nor do I have the time for it (it's just a hobby I can pursue when I'm not falling on my face after 10-12h of work and 2-4h with the kids & wife). That's where tools like this come in! I can put few notes (or have them randomized for me) not caring about sticking to key & scale, I can add chords, arps, repeats, randomisation; make variations and then transpose this however I want with a single key. That IS brilliant for me. And whether it sounds like it was created by cheap Casio keyboard or is more complex, personal and actually inventive depends on how much work I put. The tool is there for me.

Yeah I get what you're saying. Good points.

[electrofux]

It is a nice Player. Though i assume over time the Robotic Bean one will grow more powerfull since he updates alot more often than Props do.
BUT as long as props dont lift the limitation of not being able to remote the record button both are not for me.
Dunno what drives them to accept such a limitation.

[boingy]

That there RE thing is way too expensive.

[antic604]

It is a nice Player. Though i assume over time the Robotic Bean one will grow more powerfull since he updates alot more often than Props do.

Doubt that. Unless they change completely the design of their device, the only stuff they can add are linear parameters going across the sequence, like repeats/ratchets, probability, cv1/2 etc. But that's not even half of what PolyStep has right now

[sdst]

all these sequencers always snap to the grid, please someone make a sequencer without snap to the grid

[two shoes]

I’ll have to give this player a trial, hopefully it pops up in the rewards

No device with a normal price below $99 has been included in the "rewards shop" to date. Also, after initial promises that the products in the rewards shop would change and rotate on a regular basis, which they have since reiterated but not delivered on, there has not been a single rotation of new products since rewards was introduced. This program was a gimmick designed to drive PH's most profitable customers to spend even more in the shop which they crassly disguised as a "rewards" program designed to benefit loyal customers. When customers immediately saw through the gimmick and called it out for what it was Propellerhead abandoned the program immediately in favor of "rent-to-own" (another, more successful gimmick designed to get all customers to buy REs for fake anchor prices instead of the real "sale" price) and has not touched it since. You can tell how much they really value their most loyal customers.

[diminished]

all these sequencers always snap to the grid, please someone make a sequencer without snap to the grid

There is "slide" in PSS which is moving notes off the grid.

[Boombastix]

all these sequencers always snap to the grid, please someone make a sequencer without snap to the grid

There is "slide" in PSS which is moving notes off the grid.

Panda, put slide in Kompuslion too, plezzzzzz

[sdst]

There is "slide" in PSS which is moving notes off the grid.

Panda, put slide in Kompuslion too, plezzzzzz

thanks, I am going to check, i stop using propulsion for that reason

[djadalaide]

thanks, I am going to check, i stop using propulsion for that reason

In propulsion, there is an offset percentage per lane, plus you could plug one of the cv outs into the offset on the back to make it dynamic across a lane too.

[m.arthur]

As ever, Reason aims even harder at being the "DAW for non-musicians." And they'd been already aiming pretty hard that way (at least as far back as when the Playschool Brand Players first appeared).

"Wow, I can make MUSIC without ever learning how to be a MUSICIAN! RAD!"

I remember when Reason was all about being modular. That was the thing: the rack, the cables. Oh those were the days. It was a nerd playground. Now we have vastly superior modular playgrounds like Reaktor, Voltage, VCV....and Reason is just the kiddie pool with the giant, soft inflatable toddler toys.

[VariableX]

Jelie from kickbackcoture gave us a sneak peak of another new player from Tonicmint, looked like a pretty cool chord player, its gonna drop soon i guess.

[diminished]

As ever, Reason aims even harder at being the "DAW for non-musicians." And they'd been already aiming pretty hard that way (at least as far back as when the Playschool Brand Players first appeared).

"Wow, I can make MUSIC without ever learning how to be a MUSICIAN! RAD!"

I remember when Reason was all about being modular. That was the thing: the rack, the cables. Oh those were the days. It was a nerd playground. Now we have vastly superior modular playgrounds like Reaktor, Voltage, VCV....and Reason is just the kiddie pool with the giant, soft inflatable toddler toys.

Bullshit. Reason is the same it ever was but it's 5000% more these days. Go crazy with modular and CV if you want to or load any of the VST you mentioned.
Since when are more tools a bad thing??

[craste]

Am I missing something here? I thought that the Scales and Chords player allows you to do this?

Why would you buy this over Loading scales and chords on top of a synth and jamming on that?

Or am I totally not getting it and this device is aimed at me as the only chords I’m familiar with are the type you wear!

What does this do that the player mentioned above doesn’t do?

[m.arthur]

Bullshit. Reason is the same it ever was but it's 5000% more these days. Go crazy with modular and CV if you want to or load any of the VST you mentioned.
Since when are more tools a bad thing??

Same as it ever was to a fault, with UI and workflow from 2004 in 2019. You're applauding that? Ok then..... Other DAWs evolve. Reason tacks on some playschool toys to make it 'easier' for newbs to write their next big hit (right...). If they'd actually bothered to update, expand and improve on the core, rack-based, modular system they started with, it might really be something special. Sigh. The graphics are so out of date it's a joke. Scrolling the rack is like wrestling with Corel Draw circa 1996.

They've actually added some nice new synths, I'll be fair. I especially like Complex-1. But the players are junk. The drum sequencer can't even chain the patterns, you have to go over to arrangement and lay it all out there. Ridiculous. At least the new poly sequencer fixed that insane oversight. Every action from every player is "you could learn to do this yourself, but why bother?" They also seriously look like they were designed for four year olds. I wish I was exaggerating, but you know I'm not. On that point anyway

[diminished]

Bullshit. Reason is the same it ever was but it's 5000% more these days. Go crazy with modular and CV if you want to or load any of the VST you mentioned.
Since when are more tools a bad thing??

Same as it ever was to a fault, with UI and workflow from 2004 in 2019. You're applauding that? Ok then..... Other DAWs evolve. Reason tacks on some playschool toys to make it 'easier' for newbs to write their next big hit (right...). If they'd actually bothered to update, expand and improve on the core, rack-based, modular system they started with, it might really be something special. Sigh. The graphics are so out of date it's a joke. Scrolling the rack is like wrestling with Corel Draw circa 1996.

They've actually added some nice new synths, I'll be fair. I especially like Complex-1. But the players are junk. The drum sequencer can't even chain the patterns, you have to go over to arrangement and lay it all out there. Ridiculous. At least the new poly sequencer fixed that insane oversight. Every action from every player is "you could learn to do this yourself, but why bother?" They also seriously look like they were designed for four year olds. I wish I was exaggerating, but you know I'm not. On that point anyway

I have my fair share (it's actually a long list) of things I need to see improved, no doubt. That includes all of their Player devices with NoteEcho being the exception. But PSS is actually helpful. Not necessarily the sequencing, but that you can spice things up with strumming and randomization, with everything still under your control. You click on a "section", move it around, change the voicing.. genius! Glissandos are things I don't want to program manually, not even once.
Even if you keep saying that Players are toys for noobs, I think you should look again very closely at PSS and see if your judgement really applies.

[Wobbleburger]

Bullshit. Reason is the same it ever was but it's 5000% more these days. Go crazy with modular and CV if you want to or load any of the VST you mentioned.
Since when are more tools a bad thing??

Same as it ever was to a fault, with UI and workflow from 2004 in 2019. You're applauding that? Ok then..... Other DAWs evolve. Reason tacks on some playschool toys to make it 'easier' for newbs to write their next big hit (right...). If they'd actually bothered to update, expand and improve on the core, rack-based, modular system they started with, it might really be something special. Sigh. The graphics are so out of date it's a joke. Scrolling the rack is like wrestling with Corel Draw circa 1996.

They've actually added some nice new synths, I'll be fair. I especially like Complex-1. But the players are junk. The drum sequencer can't even chain the patterns, you have to go over to arrangement and lay it all out there. Ridiculous. At least the new poly sequencer fixed that insane oversight. Every action from every player is "you could learn to do this yourself, but why bother?" They also seriously look like they were designed for four year olds. I wish I was exaggerating, but you know I'm not. On that point anyway

There's some truth here but you always have the option to do things your own way. You could use a player to randomize your hi hats with a simple UI, or you can flip the rack and use a probability CV trigger to do it manually. It's fun to do things the hard way but you cannot forget entry-level users when designing software (for profit). Everything is getting easier. This same argument spans across DJing too. The purists will always hate the new technology. It's not just Reason. The market has changed and the company is changing to cater to that new market. These millenials may be endlessly annoying but they have money and iphones.

Complex-1 is a testament to their loyalty to the nerd culture from Reason's beginning. Have faith in Prop.

[mon]

"PolyStep" is nice device but Robotic Bean "Sequences" definitely diminished the WOW factor. They are covering a lot of the same ground but with their own twists. I find "PolyStep" better suited to experiment with harmonies with ability to add elements of unpredictability (with variations and probability) and possibility to choose the key to work in. The two CV lanes are also a nice touch. On the other hand "Sequences" seems more powerful in melodic experimentations with it's options to offset notes, rotate patterns, separate and decoupled octave lane, different playback modes and shuffle, slide, velocity and length automation. I like both of the devices but probably wouldn't buy both of them. I am glad that "Sequences" was the first released (and the one I bought), as it fits my needs a little better. I could always stack it with "scales and chords", if I need help to stay within a scale. Unpredictability is something that I usually would do myself after I send the notes in the main sequencer and usually my CV automations are too twisted and needs their own devices for generators, mergers, modulators etc. The only thing I am really missing in "Sequences", that PolyStep has, is the patch browser. Robotic Bean said somewhere that it will be added in the next free update (got my fingers crossed). However, PolyStep is excellent device and It's not hard to imagine that I would buy it at some point in the future.

Edit: Second day playing with it and I started to like it even more. The random, alter, repeat and slide per note are really nice features. I may end up buying it sooner than I expected.

Second edit: bought it

[dvdrtldg]

I know they say that devices like these are also for people that know theory because perhaps it might help you come up with things you wouldn't normally create, but anyone who has a legit musical background and knows how to play will look at this and immediately think "it would be so much faster to just play it in/I don't understand how this is helpful/this is taking way too much time". These devices, in my opinion, area all about making music-making more accessible to people who aren't traditional musicians, which seems to be Propellerhead's thing ever since Verdane took over. I find it all quite boring and elementary, but I can see why they're doing it.

This is pretty much how I look at these devices. I think it's great that Props are opening up the process of music making to a larger base of people, but what appears to be their key selling point - "It's a composition tool!" - just doesn't work for me at all. When I try to actually compose with them, the result always sounds totally naff without a hell of a lot of automation & laborious tweaking, like I'm constantly fighting the limits of the device

On the other hand, I quite like them for semi-randomised "decorative" stuff in the background. But PSQ-1684 with CV Player Tap does just as good a job

[Steedus]

I quickly watched the announcement video this morning before work, but I didn't really get the point. It looked like a device that combines the piano roll with the chords player, but in it's own separate player ... ? Am I missing something?

[VariableX]

Well for what its worth I don't like it ( just trialed it for an hour or so ) I don't like the RBean one either. Neither help me with my workflow, both seem clunky and unnatural.

Loving Reason in general though! Everytime i switch it on im addicted.

[Faastwalker]

Nice, but a bit expensive for a pure midi device :

How it goes:

1. Release RE at inflated price
2. Offer 30-50% discount a few months later.
3. When new version of Reason arrives, either include the RE with it or as part of an upgrade promotion later on.

It's effectively an intro-price, except you fork over more money instead of less.

will definitely give this a TRY. These devices are always a lot of fun to play around with. I don't often end up with ideas that I particularly like or would stick with & build on. But they are huge fun all the same. At $99AUS though this is definitely NOT getting purchased outside of a substantial discount during an inevitable sale no matter how good it is.