POLL: Rent-A-Rack .. Have You Subscribed?

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.

Have you tried out the RE Subscription model?

1 - No
116
89%
2 - Yes. Tried one month
5
4%
3 - Yes. Every month ongoing
10
8%
 
Total votes: 131
User avatar
splangie
Posts: 145
Joined: 21 Dec 2017
Location: Park County, Colorado

Post 12 Feb 2018

Well, I almost did it last night. I don't have an audio interface yet and needed a guitar part. I was looking through those octo guitar loops that came OTB and tried to find some other stuff from the free loops on the net but didn't have much luck. I started looking at the subscriptions for the A-List guitar REs and watched a couple demos and they look ok. My questions are:

1. I was reading that the tempo is fixed and not controllable in any of the loops. Is that true?
2. I believe I also read on this forum that internet authentication has to be turned on for subscriptions. Is that true?
3. Has anyone used the electric pop chords and nylon fingerpicking REs? The demos sound good.

I guess I could down load a trial or just start a subscription for 9 bucks and find out.
Reason 10.2d93

User avatar
Adabler
Posts: 222
Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Location: Oslo

Post 12 Feb 2018

splangie wrote:
12 Feb 2018
1. I was reading that the tempo is fixed and not controllable in any of the loops. Is that true?
2. I believe I also read on this forum that internet authentication has to be turned on for subscriptions. Is that true?
3. Has anyone used the electric pop chords and nylon fingerpicking REs? The demos sound good.
1. Yes, it syncs with the master tempo and that's it as far as I know.
2. Yes. When you start reason it will state that some REs are online only.
3. I've used both and I like them, especially the finger picking one. I don't play guitar and these REs makes it easier for me to play with ideas in other genres.
:reason: 10 on Win10

User avatar
tc13
Posts: 29
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2018

Forums aren't what they used to be. Less people seems to use them. A quick glance at KVR reveals 8 active topics for today in "Host and applications". 5-10 years ago there was, as I remember it, at least 20-25 active subjects (or more) any given day.

A couple of forum I used to visit, simply faded away and died...

But back to subsriptions... I think they are a great idea, 9 bux a month gets me 400 dollars worth. Thats 3 years and 8 months before I'm up to that amount of money. And if I really like a RE i can buy iy and replace it with something else...

Whats not to like about that? 2 beers less at the pub every month, give me more toys to play with.
Last edited by tc13 on 12 Feb 2018, edited 1 time in total.

WongoTheSane
Posts: 1498
Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Location: Paris, France

Post 12 Feb 2018

splangie wrote:
12 Feb 2018
Well, I almost did it last night. I don't have an audio interface yet and needed a guitar part. I was looking through those octo guitar loops that came OTB and tried to find some other stuff from the free loops on the net but didn't have much luck. I started looking at the subscriptions for the A-List guitar REs and watched a couple demos and they look ok. My questions are:

1. I was reading that the tempo is fixed and not controllable in any of the loops. Is that true?
2. I believe I also read on this forum that internet authentication has to be turned on for subscriptions. Is that true?
3. Has anyone used the electric pop chords and nylon fingerpicking REs? The demos sound good.

I guess I could down load a trial or just start a subscription for 9 bucks and find out.
To add to what Adabler just said, I don't have Pop Chords but I have FingerPicking Nylon and Acoustic Guitarist, and I like them very much too. I don't play guitar well, so they're a great help. Nylon has a double/half tempo setting that the other ones don't have. On top of following the master tempo (so they're not fixed at all), they also have a Swing and a Feel setting, the latter allowing to choose whether you want a push or a pull feel (and how much). They also have a wealth of patches in all styles, each with lots of different patterns. I definitely recommend trialing them.

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 5697
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2018

WongoTheSane wrote:
12 Feb 2018
splangie wrote:
12 Feb 2018
Well, I almost did it last night. I don't have an audio interface yet and needed a guitar part. I was looking through those octo guitar loops that came OTB and tried to find some other stuff from the free loops on the net but didn't have much luck. I started looking at the subscriptions for the A-List guitar REs and watched a couple demos and they look ok. My questions are:

1. I was reading that the tempo is fixed and not controllable in any of the loops. Is that true?
2. I believe I also read on this forum that internet authentication has to be turned on for subscriptions. Is that true?
3. Has anyone used the electric pop chords and nylon fingerpicking REs? The demos sound good.

I guess I could down load a trial or just start a subscription for 9 bucks and find out.
To add to what Adabler just said, I don't have Pop Chords but I have FingerPicking Nylon and Acoustic Guitarist, and I like them very much too. I don't play guitar well, so they're a great help. Nylon has a double/half tempo setting that the other ones don't have. On top of following the master tempo (so they're not fixed at all), they also have a Swing and a Feel setting, the latter allowing to choose whether you want a push or a pull feel (and how much). They also have a wealth of patches in all styles, each with lots of different patterns. I definitely recommend trialing them.
Agreed. I have Pop Chords and like it very much!

And to add to this, they are not like your playing with Rex loops in Dr. Octo Rex, where slowing the master tempo could make them choppy or speeding up can make it unrealistic. Always sounds natural. An exceptional handling of phrases/samples and very flexible with chords. And you can get creative making your own rhythms using the CV inputs along with something like the Matrix. So not much like loops really.

User avatar
Adabler
Posts: 222
Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Location: Oslo

Post 12 Feb 2018

WongoTheSane wrote:
12 Feb 2018
Nylon has a double/half tempo setting that the other ones don't have. On top of following the master tempo (so they're not fixed at all), they also have a Swing and a Feel setting, the latter allowing to choose whether you want a push or a pull feel (and how much). They also have a wealth of patches in all styles, each with lots of different patterns. I definitely recommend trialing them.
Ah, yes, this is true! I just assumed he meant some advanced loop manipulations or a sample tempo knob of sorts.

In any case, the tier 1 subscription is perfect for the a-list stuff. Go hog wild!
:reason: 10 on Win10

Pralijah
Posts: 103
Joined: 17 Feb 2017

Post 12 Feb 2018

Have not tried it just yet. But I like the idea and have wanted it implemented. Find it logical. And while "rent to buy" might also be an option added, it would be from the list price, and might not be that different from having ability to try different devices, and later buy on sales the ones you dont want to be without. It would probably be not too far off from "rent to buy" considering the overall price. But I welcome "rent to buy" for single RE´s too. But for me, these deals now is tempting, and I will get onboard sooner or later. Have many RE´s but still many more has come along. And while using Logic too and being hobbyist, it seems handy to be able to rent optional RE´s whenever it is needed, instead of having to buy them all. And in the long run, the good enough RE´s will surely generate something to the developers, as more people can both rent and buy their RE´s. There is still enough people who still want to buy fulltime license, so best of both worlds. I have many RE´s I want to try out a bit more before I know if I need them more permanent.
But all RE´s dont seem to be connected yet to this subscription service. And maybe it will continue to be so, but still many are on to it.
Make music shake again!

User avatar
Faastwalker
Posts: 1329
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2018

hurricane wrote:
12 Feb 2018
So now this tells me that 1) Reason will go subscription eventually, and 2) Reason Mobile is on its way.
You mean Reason itself as a subscription software model? I think that would be the death knell of Reason. Certainly if the option to buy outright is removed. If Propellerhead go down an Adobe style route I don' think it would end well for the software. There are too many viable alternatives out there. The user base I think would just fade away. Reason feels less unique since VST was introduced. So making the switch to something else ironically feels easier than ever. Reason 'Creative Cloud' would be the end.

Reason Mobile (I assume you mean iOS) makes sense to me. If you look at something like Cubasis on iPad then I think you can appreciate what Reason iOS could be. If it works well & Propellerhead do it right it would be great I think. Thor iOS is very, very good. It could work very well. Of course if you have a laptop or a non-iOS mobile device it's probably going to be a non event for you & not make a lot of sense. It's something the user base will again be divided on.
tc13 wrote:
12 Feb 2018
Forums aren't what they used to be. Less people seems to use them. A quick glance at KVR reveals 8 active topics for today in "Host and applications". 5-10 years ago there was, as I remember it, at least 20-25 active subjects (or more) any given day. A couple of forum I used to visit, simply faded away and died...
This seems to be the way things are going. A lot of forums that I frequented over the years either no longer exist or have descended into a cesspit of vitriol & abuse! They are not friendly places to be. I think this is why Propllerhead shut down the official forums. It just got a bit messy on there in the end. Reason Talk is much better because it is well moderated & I think the people on here are generally well versed in forum etiquette.

User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

Post 12 Feb 2018

Forums have matured. The ones that are well moderated with an active user base have grown immense and become pinnacles of user feedback and support - a resource and insight many companies would empty their wallet to garner even today. Propellerhead failed horribly in that aspect, scorned their base, and are paying the price while other products and forums continue to thrive and grow. No matter how you feel about forums in this internet age, there's no denying Propellerhead left users feeling without a home to creatively discuss their product -- and if it weren't for users willing to spend their own time and money... we'd still be without one.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7504345&p=366177&hi ... um#p366177
About the Props forum. No worth repeating again that sums it up perfectly.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7505414&p=376730#p376730
Good discussion and poll on Mobile reason.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

User avatar
Faastwalker
Posts: 1329
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 13 Feb 2018

Psuper wrote:
12 Feb 2018
No matter how you feel about forums in this internet age, there's no denying Propellerhead left users feeling without a home to creatively discuss their product -- and if it weren't for users willing to spend their own time and money... we'd still be without one.
I must admit I was surprised & gutted when it was closed. It seemed completely absurd to me at the time, even though it had gone down hill a bit. It just needed better moderation to fix it up. I guess Propellerhead didn't have the resources of the inclination to do this so it was removed completely. ReasonTalk thankfully stepped up to take its place. As far as I can see most of the major DAW manufacturers have their own official forums / community areas. Propellerhead doesn't, which is ridiculous for a software that is supposed to be so popular.

User avatar
theshoemaker
Posts: 555
Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Germany

Post 13 Feb 2018

hurricane wrote:
12 Feb 2018
I don't think I will ever subscribe to software.

Based on the recent "updates" to Reason (adding VST support and then R10), I'd say the Props clearly don't think reasontalk members are representative of their user base. If you were, then they would have given you guys more modules to enhance your CV fuckery, more aggressive rack extension support, a Thor Mark II, and a super combinator.

So now this tells me that 1) Reason will go subscription eventually, and 2) Reason Mobile is on its way.

Basically everything you guys don't want, lol.
I wouldn't call it CV fuckery. Synths we use inside Reason are powertools which sometimes require engineering efforts. So, if you are a creatvie sound engineer and love exploring and not only using presets, CV is a very legit demand. Now for the other side: In 2018 there are more advanced techniques to expose this to a user, but that's another topic.

Reason is definitely going to be mobile. If its called reason mobile? Anyway. They where looking for a lead for Mobile Dev in public after splitting Take and Figure into allihoopa. And they also said Figure is a test to do it the right way on mobile. They don't just want to port.
It's a big market. I'd personally would love to use reason on mobile. I'm fare more creative using Figure or Gadget for example, but I love the synths in Reason and how I can patch them. Putting this reason sauce into a mobile app and then finishing and polishing on the Desktop ... Looking forward.

Technically they have everything they need to even allow REs to have distinct UIs for smaller sized screens.
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V10 on MacOS Sierra

User avatar
hurricane
Posts: 442
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

Post 13 Feb 2018

theshoemaker wrote:
13 Feb 2018

I wouldn't call it CV fuckery. Synths we use inside Reason are powertools which sometimes require engineering efforts. So, if you are a creatvie sound engineer and love exploring and not only using presets, CV is a very legit demand. Now for the other side: In 2018 there are more advanced techniques to expose this to a user, but that's another topic.
So sensitive! It's a term of endearment. Ever heard of this subreddit? https://www.reddit.com/r/blackmagicfuckery/

Anyway, I woke up to an email from Slate, telling me if I came back they'd give me TWO FREE MONTHS of renting their plugins!!!! I don't think Slate understands how much he pisses me and others off with these "offers". So if you're listening Steven - I WILL NEVER SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR PLAN. I'm more than fine with my Waves, Soundtoys, IK, and Eventide plugins.

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 5697
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 13 Feb 2018

hurricane wrote:
13 Feb 2018
theshoemaker wrote:
13 Feb 2018

I wouldn't call it CV fuckery. Synths we use inside Reason are powertools which sometimes require engineering efforts. So, if you are a creatvie sound engineer and love exploring and not only using presets, CV is a very legit demand. Now for the other side: In 2018 there are more advanced techniques to expose this to a user, but that's another topic.
So sensitive! It's a term of endearment. Ever heard of this subreddit? https://www.reddit.com/r/blackmagicfuckery/

Anyway, I woke up to an email from Slate, telling me if I came back they'd give me TWO FREE MONTHS of renting their plugins!!!! I don't think Slate understands how much he pisses me and others off with these "offers". So if you're listening Steven - I WILL NEVER SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR PLAN. I'm more than fine with my Waves, Soundtoys, IK, and Eventide plugins.
Were you perhaps leading this marching band? :lol:


User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

Post 13 Feb 2018

The price they pay for hanging out with musicians in a gigantic auditorium! I wonder how many people can "hear" theose subtle sonic capabilities lol

I'm about to test the Antelope Verge mic, what a ride of crap it has been - seemingly great product, nightmare company. If I had to do it over I'd probably get a Townsend Sphere with an Apollo Twin or Clarette and be done with it, however I think it may be worth the headache with these Discrete devices. I try to never early adopt, until I early adopt then swear I'll never do it again... till I do it again.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

User avatar
splangie
Posts: 145
Joined: 21 Dec 2017
Location: Park County, Colorado

Post 13 Feb 2018

Adabler wrote:
12 Feb 2018
splangie wrote:
12 Feb 2018
1. I was reading that the tempo is fixed and not controllable in any of the loops. Is that true?
2. I believe I also read on this forum that internet authentication has to be turned on for subscriptions. Is that true?
3. Has anyone used the electric pop chords and nylon fingerpicking REs? The demos sound good.
1. Yes, it syncs with the master tempo and that's it as far as I know.
2. Yes. When you start reason it will state that some REs are online only.
3. I've used both and I like them, especially the finger picking one. I don't play guitar and these REs makes it easier for me to play with ideas in other genres.
Thanks for the info. I think I will do it.
Reason 10.2d93

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 2349
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 14 Feb 2018

Stil very much want Rent-To-Own or Rent-To-Buy. I would've done some of them by now if it existed.
:reason:

Reason 10.2

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 2349
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 14 Feb 2018

Psuper wrote:
10 Feb 2018
MusicianX wrote:
10 Feb 2018
You can't say 12+ years after the fact of demands that you're "listening", its as misleading and disingenuous as "R10 Biggest Update Ever".
I know...it certainly wasn't that. Biggest content update would've been more accurate.
:reason:

Reason 10.2

User avatar
Faastwalker
Posts: 1329
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 14 Feb 2018

Creativemind wrote:
14 Feb 2018
Stil very much want Rent-To-Own or Rent-To-Buy. I would've done some of them by now if it existed.
Just spotted this, which is tempting;

https://ask.audio/articles/now-you-can- ... -neutron-2

I agree, be nice to have this option.

I’ve heard RE subs are a shit deal for developers.

User avatar
Adabler
Posts: 222
Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Location: Oslo

Post 14 Feb 2018

I've decided to try out the 2nd tier subscription, fill it with stuff from my wish list and wait for the sales. The plan is to buy most items on my list during 2018 sales anyways and cancel the subscription as soon as I no longer can fill it.

As a cheap hobbyist this seems to be perfect for me. I might end up spending a little more on REs this way, but I get to explore lots of instruments without the time restrictions.

People not wanting to subscribe, do you already own so many REs that filling a subscription is difficult and thus feels like a waste?
:reason: 10 on Win10

User avatar
Faastwalker
Posts: 1329
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 14 Feb 2018

Adabler wrote:
14 Feb 2018
People not wanting to subscribe, do you already own so many REs that filling a subscription is difficult and thus feels like a waste?
I’ve already bought most of the RE’s that I want / need. There are only a handful of RE’s left in the shop that I’m interested in but don’t already own to be honest. I think the subscription model is best suited to new users to Reason. If you’ve been around a while, I guess like a lot of people on here, it’s a somewhat redundant model. Maybe why the poll results are tipped approximately 10/1 against the idea of subscriptions?

User avatar
Adabler
Posts: 222
Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Location: Oslo

Post 14 Feb 2018

Faastwalker wrote:
14 Feb 2018
I’ve already bought most of the RE’s that I want / need. There are only a handful of RE’s left in the shop that I’m interested in but don’t already own to be honest. I think the subscription model is best suited to new users to Reason. If you’ve been around a while, I guess like a lot of people on here, it’s a somewhat redundant model. Maybe why the poll results are tipped approximately 10/1 against the idea of subscriptions?
That makes sense. I found it a little odd that so many on here were so opposed to the idea of subscriptions, but I guess it is more a feeling of waiting for x and instead Propellerhead is doing z.
:reason: 10 on Win10

User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

Post 14 Feb 2018

Adabler wrote:
14 Feb 2018
People not wanting to subscribe, do you already own so many REs that filling a subscription is difficult and thus feels like a waste?
There's a slew of REs I want purchase, I'm waiting to see where Props takes Reason before I spend any more money. I still wouldn't subscribe, I'd purchase what I want outright.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

User avatar
splangie
Posts: 145
Joined: 21 Dec 2017
Location: Park County, Colorado

Post 14 Feb 2018

joeyluck wrote:
12 Feb 2018
WongoTheSane wrote:
12 Feb 2018


To add to what Adabler just said, I don't have Pop Chords but I have FingerPicking Nylon and Acoustic Guitarist, and I like them very much too. I don't play guitar well, so they're a great help. Nylon has a double/half tempo setting that the other ones don't have. On top of following the master tempo (so they're not fixed at all), they also have a Swing and a Feel setting, the latter allowing to choose whether you want a push or a pull feel (and how much). They also have a wealth of patches in all styles, each with lots of different patterns. I definitely recommend trialing them.
Agreed. I have Pop Chords and like it very much!

And to add to this, they are not like your playing with Rex loops in Dr. Octo Rex, where slowing the master tempo could make them choppy or speeding up can make it unrealistic. Always sounds natural. An exceptional handling of phrases/samples and very flexible with chords. And you can get creative making your own rhythms using the CV inputs along with something like the Matrix. So not much like loops really.
Thanks again for all the info. I signed up and tried to download A-List Acoustic, Finger Picking, Pop Chords and Studio Drummer but kept getting a download fail error. I tried a few things but was not able to get the downsload to compele. I sent a note to support and they are suggesting that I first turn off the virus scan and make sure to add exception for the RackExtension folder if download completes after turning it off.

Also, when I installed Reason I used the CodeMeter option so I wouldn't have to worry about internet connectivity. Last night I removed it by simply uninstalling it, then rebooted and started Reason, signed in and all was ok, except the REs still failed to download. I installed CodeMeter again and no longer get prompted when I start Reaon. Could CodeMeter be causing any issues and are there any advantages, besides not needing internet connection, to using it?
Reason 10.2d93

WongoTheSane
Posts: 1498
Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Location: Paris, France

Post 14 Feb 2018

splangie wrote:
14 Feb 2018
joeyluck wrote:
12 Feb 2018


Agreed. I have Pop Chords and like it very much!

And to add to this, they are not like your playing with Rex loops in Dr. Octo Rex, where slowing the master tempo could make them choppy or speeding up can make it unrealistic. Always sounds natural. An exceptional handling of phrases/samples and very flexible with chords. And you can get creative making your own rhythms using the CV inputs along with something like the Matrix. So not much like loops really.
Thanks again for all the info. I signed up and tried to download A-List Acoustic, Finger Picking, Pop Chords and Studio Drummer but kept getting a download fail error. I tried a few things but was not able to get the downsload to compele. I sent a note to support and they are suggesting that I first turn off the virus scan and make sure to add exception for the RackExtension folder if download completes after turning it off.

Also, when I installed Reason I used the CodeMeter option so I wouldn't have to worry about internet connectivity. Last night I removed it by simply uninstalling it, then rebooted and started Reason, signed in and all was ok, except the REs still failed to download. I installed CodeMeter again and no longer get prompted when I start Reaon. Could CodeMeter be causing any issues and are there any advantages, besides not needing internet connection, to using it?
I don't think CodeMeter can interfere with the downloads. Authorizer can though: while the download is happening, it's also updating your registration keys, which can take a while depending on the number of Rack Extensions you have. But I would venture that your downloading problems are probably time-related: I don't download anything anymore between 7pm and 11pm because the whole continent is watching TV and using Internet, and downloads slow down to an almost complete stop. If I were you, I would try downloading in the morning instead of the evening.

User avatar
jayhosking
Posts: 501
Joined: 28 Nov 2016

Post 14 Feb 2018

Adabler wrote:
14 Feb 2018
People not wanting to subscribe, do you already own so many REs that filling a subscription is difficult and thus feels like a waste?
Essentially yes. I don't own that many REs, but I purchased most of the ones that I wanted. Even now, with a bunch of REs I'm looking forward to trying (ColouringEQ, AIRE, Luna), I'm still more tempted to purchase outright than buy, which is kind of silly, but we'll see.

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