KRON has landed in the shop!

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Bes
Posts: 17
Joined: 22 Feb 2017

12 Oct 2017

I'm so pleased that this RE exists. CV is the heart of what I love about reason, CV is how I try to understand music. The manual has 75 pages !! This is going to be a seriously mind expanding read for me so thank you to starship of alien-seed.

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dvdrtldg
Posts: 877
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

12 Oct 2017

YYYYEEEAAAAHHH very excited to get my hands on this at last

I wonder what the "REs are dead" crew will make of it

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AttenuationHz
Posts: 1132
Joined: 20 Mar 2015
Location: Back of the Rack

12 Oct 2017

of course np...
Waiting for Navigation by Routing to be added! viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7496036&p=275497#p275497

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theshoemaker
Posts: 369
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Location: Germany
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12 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
12 Oct 2017
Puhh....very complicated. I just could not figure out, how to trigger the envelope. I thought i can just press a note onthe keyboard and it runs. The manual says, it requires a gate signal from the back or a gate channel. Just to get a few steps forward, maybe someone can help with a lil few things
* How can a trigger the envelope?
* Can i quantize notes to specific scale?
Have a look at my patches from in the ReFills forum ... viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7503593

There is a patch "tools - synced sequencer":
- Wav1 is used on the quants as sequencer
- Wav2 is used as a snap to scale tool. You have to use a Steped/ Square LFO as input for it to work like you'd expect it.
Just connect Quantizer /Gate Generator on the back to GATE of your device and LFO 1 out as CV input.
Also have a look at "percussion - Pluks [run]" as well as the "fx - Malkrön First Contact" GATE Frequency is used for how fast the sequencer advances and Button 1 from KRON for adjusting the speed.

Need the help from Mark to figure out properly how to sync that ... but thankfully it works :)
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V9 on MacOS Sierra

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starship
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

12 Oct 2017

Loque:
Oh, whoops, I didn't see the "can I quantize notes to a specific scale?"
Yes and no. There are root note menus on the back panel below the wave menus. That adjusts the root note, obviously, and then you can draw in whatever scale you want with the waveform. But there are no stored scales. Honestly, this device may be clumsy for note quantizing, at least at the moment. Depending on what you want out of a note quantizer... If I had started out trying to make a note quantizer device.. I mean maybe I'll make a small one at some point. Who knows.

everyone else: :)

theshoemaker: what are you trying to properly sync? which patch(es) and whatnot?

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theshoemaker
Posts: 369
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12 Oct 2017

Typo... Should have been: Needed the help from you. The syncing of the LFO speeds
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V9 on MacOS Sierra

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starship
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

12 Oct 2017

Oops, just toasted my reply. I dig the percussion pluks patch!

So do you mean syncing up free frequencies / sync freqs with env sync on (purple toggle)? Use gate channels or the reset button in the general controls. automate that button, or you could automate a gate trigger too, so you could reset this at various points in the song, as desired.

Or do you mean something else?

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Loque
Posts: 1981
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

13 Oct 2017

I figured out the note quantizing and even on a few octaves.
Next step is how to manipulate external signals.
:reason: 9.5.2 Win10 64Bit.

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theshoemaker
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13 Oct 2017

starship wrote:
12 Oct 2017
Oops, just toasted my reply. I dig the percussion pluks patch!

So do you mean syncing up free frequencies / sync freqs with env sync on (purple toggle)? Use gate channels or the reset button in the general controls. automate that button, or you could automate a gate trigger too, so you could reset this at various points in the song, as desired.

Or do you mean something else?
I meant the Speed Knob (1) Setting up the frequencies for having a proper divider.
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V9 on MacOS Sierra

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starship
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

13 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
13 Oct 2017
I figured out the note quantizing and even on a few octaves.
Next step is how to manipulate external signals.
Sweet. There's a device patch called Arpeggiator in the Generator folder. I had to make a last minute adjustment, but I think it works. Seriously, I think I might be able to make a better way to easily do pass-through arp. Give me a bit to sort it out. But right now, that patch is basically generating random CV, quantizing it to some kind of scale, and then adding in the MIDI note values with some extra constants to get it to be the right note, after everything else.

Yeah, I really need to take a look at this and see about adding a better mod option and figuring out why my patch wasn't working. This is a total weak spot on the KRON. :) It was one of the last things to be added and didn't get tested enough. So my bad!

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starship
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13 Oct 2017

theshoemaker wrote:
13 Oct 2017
I meant the Speed Knob (1) Setting up the frequencies for having a proper divider.
I'm still confused! ha. Can you email me and tell me which patch and whatnot, and once I figure it out, I can put the answer in here? I feel like we're going to spam this thread with me being confused about what you're confused about.

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Loque
Posts: 1981
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

13 Oct 2017

I am getting used to, even manipulating external CV. But tbh a few things are still in a far foggy distance.

Actually iam having fun creating sick waves and use them in eXpanse :-D wish i f directly play it from Krong. Even some basic tones it generates are useful. Should try to map my keyboard to the Frequency with full multiplier and route it through Thor. With a keyboard mapped comb filter it will be fun.
:reason: 9.5.2 Win10 64Bit.

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starship
Posts: 58
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13 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
13 Oct 2017
I figured out the note quantizing and even on a few octaves.
Next step is how to manipulate external signals.
OK, I made a better version of the Arpeggiator device patch. Sorry for my confusion. :) What confused me about this is that middle C is not the middle of a unipolar LFO. E is. [And I'd accidentally left the inverts on when I saved this apparently. :)] So this patch does a better job of lining up the resting state of the LFO at C and adding the note value after the random LFO gets quantized. If you want to use external note signals, just change the "notes" mod source to "in A1" or whatever. This patch is setup for a combi patch where the KRON is feeding both notes and gates into instruments. That's why the quants and gates are set up the way they are.

So yeah... this is one of the things on the KRON that can definitely be done but it's not as obvious as it could be / should be because it doesn't have its own dedicated components/controls. I hope all of that makes sense. Basically, if you add note values to 0, you get the note values, obviously. But since we're trying to run a unipolar LFO too, which is going to want to rest at .5, which happens to be middle E, adjustments have to be made before and after to be able to add those note values to the LFO and end up with the right note.
Arpeggiator mk2.zip
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starship
Posts: 58
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13 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
13 Oct 2017
I am getting used to, even manipulating external CV. But tbh a few things are still in a far foggy distance.

Actually iam having fun creating sick waves and use them in eXpanse :-D wish i f directly play it from Krong. Even some basic tones it generates are useful. Should try to map my keyboard to the Frequency with full multiplier and route it through Thor. With a keyboard mapped comb filter it will be fun.
Wait, hehe, I think I misunderstood you. But I did fix that arpeggiator patch. ;)

Cool! Yeah, I want to do this kind of thing on a synth, but it'll take me some time. :) I got the request a lot during beta testing, to make the KRON do audio, but it'll have to wait for a future device that's streamlined and designed to do audio from the start.

Cool!

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Loque
Posts: 1981
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

13 Oct 2017

starship wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Loque wrote:
13 Oct 2017
I am getting used to, even manipulating external CV. But tbh a few things are still in a far foggy distance.

Actually iam having fun creating sick waves and use them in eXpanse :-D wish i f directly play it from Krong. Even some basic tones it generates are useful. Should try to map my keyboard to the Frequency with full multiplier and route it through Thor. With a keyboard mapped comb filter it will be fun.
Wait, hehe, I think I misunderstood you. But I did fix that arpeggiator patch. ;)

Cool! Yeah, I want to do this kind of thing on a synth, but it'll take me some time. :) I got the request a lot during beta testing, to make the KRON do audio, but it'll have to wait for a future device that's streamlined and designed to do audio from the start.

Cool!
Yea, its pretty funny using this as a oscilator. But the lack of 100% keyboard sync doesnt make it a real oscilator. But hear is an example i came out in the last 20 minutes (where the most of the time i stared fascinated on my screen, listened and turned some filter knobs :-D Just press RUN in the matrix.
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Fun With Kron.zip
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:reason: 9.5.2 Win10 64Bit.

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starship
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

13 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Yea, its pretty funny using this as a oscilator. But the lack of 100% keyboard sync doesnt make it a real oscilator. But hear is an example i came out in the last 20 minutes (where the most of the time i stared fascinated on my screen, listened and turned some filter knobs :-D Just press RUN in the matrix.
Cool! I'm fiddling with it, trying to tune it. If I succeed, I'll post it.

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starship
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

13 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Yea, its pretty funny using this as a oscilator. But the lack of 100% keyboard sync doesnt make it a real oscilator. But hear is an example i came out in the last 20 minutes (where the most of the time i stared fascinated on my screen, listened and turned some filter knobs :-D Just press RUN in the matrix.
OK, try this. I think this is better tuned. I set up a couple of user knobs, one to scale the frequency mod (which I set to 100% mod amount) and another to shift the root note (freq). I could be wrong, but it seems to hit C and do an octave better, though not all octaves work on the Thor's end... I think.
Fun With Kron mk2.zip
(6.68 KiB) Downloaded 9 times

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Loque
Posts: 1981
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

13 Oct 2017

starship wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Loque wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Yea, its pretty funny using this as a oscilator. But the lack of 100% keyboard sync doesnt make it a real oscilator. But hear is an example i came out in the last 20 minutes (where the most of the time i stared fascinated on my screen, listened and turned some filter knobs :-D Just press RUN in the matrix.
OK, try this. I think this is better tuned. I set up a couple of user knobs, one to scale the frequency mod (which I set to 100% mod amount) and another to shift the root note (freq). I could be wrong, but it seems to hit C and do an octave better, though not all octaves work on the Thor's end... I think.

Fun With Kron mk2.zip
Yea, sounds more tuned. Nice! Maybe its some lack of CV, where the CV has some limits when you want to create sounds of it. Maybe its to some resolution stuff. I run Reason on 96khz and it sounds pretty bad on 44khz. As i just learned, the CV is related to the sample frequencey. Would be interesting if Kron could output on an audio out? The frequencey is quite high enough for audible stuff.
:reason: 9.5.2 Win10 64Bit.

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starship
Posts: 58
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13 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Yea, sounds more tuned. Nice! Maybe its some lack of CV, where the CV has some limits when you want to create sounds of it. Maybe its to some resolution stuff. I run Reason on 96khz and it sounds pretty bad on 44khz. As i just learned, the CV is related to the sample frequencey. Would be interesting if Kron could output on an audio out? The frequencey is quite high enough for audible stuff.
Yeah, b/c the CV rate is pretty low, so I'm guessing depending on the waveform, CV->audio doesn't work all that well. Right, the sample rate is directly related to the number of batches per second, and CV sends 1 piece of data while audio sends 64 per batch.

I can't put audio outs on this thing. And I'd have to run the LFOs at 64x, which won't scale up well on the KRON and frankly I'd need a lot more controls. I'll just have to make a synth. :) I thought real hard about it maybe a year ago or so and determined that it just wasn't feasible and would make it too bulky. Like *more* bulky. :)

I don't have much experience with CV->audio, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a RE that does a better job than the Thor. And I'm keeping that feature in mind for a future smaller device. Though really, the real solution is to make an actual audio oscillator. :)

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Loque
Posts: 1981
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

13 Oct 2017

I dont think Thor is the problem, it's just the low resolution of CV. Just check out Movement, it has a CV and can be used as a oscilator, but with a switch.
Area, make a synth. Regarding your CV tools you would probably come up with something sick (that means not available till now). All those synths are just around the same in the end. It's the modulation and special stuff that makes them new and interesting. Why not try something not convenient?
:reason: 9.5.2 Win10 64Bit.

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starship
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

13 Oct 2017

Yeah, low resolution, but I wonder if there's a better way of converting CV to audio than Thor's method... I have to look into it at some point.

Right, Movement has audio outs and actual internal audio oscillators. I don't have internal audio oscillators. I need to seriously optimize and thread the curving code in order to do it as a synth. It's pretty mathematically intense. So I need to start with a new device and... from the start, try to be optimized as hell. :) It's going to be some work... but it's totally on my todo list at some point. Yeah! I'm getting excited, thinking about it. ;) I don't want to give too much away yet, but I have brainstormed the shit out of this. :)

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starship
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

13 Oct 2017

FWIW, I think the KRON is a lot easier to use and look at if a different meter color / color preset is chosen. The default is green basically just because that's what I had been using before adding all of the colors and so left it. But e.g. I really like violet and gold. I was just staring at the KRON with green, getting kinda lost, switched to violet and voila, much relief. I really like violet... So I'm guessing it's easily going to be the same deal with many of you. :)

I stopped the colors at violet because I think cyan looks like shit, in general, especially on this device (and I didn't like blue meters on this device). I don't like yellow-green but the way I was figuring the colors, I felt like skipping it would ruin the spectrum. Hence green through violet, but you can select any RGB combo for the displays... I can't stop anyone from selecting cyan there. :)

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starship
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

14 Oct 2017

Here are some links, starting with my website, which I just put all of the demo/intro/tutorial videos on, to make it real clear/easy, plus a faq I'm starting that may become more useful with time. And then Benedict's intro article and video tutorial. He's doing some crazy shit in here! And explaining things.

http://alien-seed.com/kron/index.html

https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2017/10/1 ... s-matters/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcCpFmi_3XE&t=11s

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MannequinRaces
Posts: 412
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

14 Oct 2017

Nice article by Benedict. I did have one issue with it though where he says “and limits of the current RE SDK” – that’s a bit misleading because this doesn’t even use the most up to date SDK… other than that great write-up!

This is just an idea for a tutorial down the line but I would like to see how Kron can be utilized for generative music making. Thank you for a wonderful device Alien Seed that makes me feel like the captain of the space shuttle with all those controls! :)

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starship
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

14 Oct 2017

MannequinRaces wrote:
14 Oct 2017
Nice article by Benedict. I did have one issue with it though where he says “and limits of the current RE SDK” – that’s a bit misleading because this doesn’t even use the most up to date SDK… other than that great write-up!

This is just an idea for a tutorial down the line but I would like to see how Kron can be utilized for generative music making. Thank you for a wonderful device Alien Seed that makes me feel like the captain of the space shuttle with all those controls! :)
Yeah, that's probably my fault. Honestly, I haven't taken a good look at the latest SDK yet, largely b/c I didn't want to start using it until after release and I didn't want to freak out about how much I was missing. ;)
But I ran into some limits that I suspect are still there that he may be referring to. And it's conceivable that in the future, those limits will be bumped up a bit. I'm guessing that's what he meant.

:) Thanks for the compliment!! And you're welcome, my pleasure!

Hmm... generative music making... OK. There are some patches in there at least that do that. Give me some parameters or something, what you'd be looking for in that kind of tutorial, just so we're on the same page. Maybe it seems obvious... but more coffee is needed on my end before I'm going to be sure about much. :)

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