VST in reason, effects on the rack extension market?

[zakalwe]

the issue is that companies like NI have their own shop and auth system. if RE were an open platform like VST (inb4 GNU nerds) then you might see more ports but if i can't buy a crossgrade licence from a company as a consumer then i'm really disinclined to purchase an RE version that i can't use anywhere else. if i buy a plugin from u-he i get a staggering amount of platform and plugin support for example. i can even run zebra on a linux VST host if i so desire.

I don't see what would stop props working with these companies so that when someone has say an authorised NI product they get a major discount on their props account for the RE version.

Selling would be a bit more complicated, but could work if the user is restricted to reselling the discounted RE to only people who have the VST version authorised also. Would take some work, but anything is possible. But if it's only £5/£10 extra for the RE version it wouldn't be a huge loss if you couldn't sell.

but why would i pay for a crossgrade i don't need? if i buy a plugin from NI or whoever else it's probably going to be available in VST/AU/AAX and completely portable, even working in reason now. if the RE version had better integration with reason i guess there would be marginal value to me but as far as i can see the VST integration with reason is going to be pretty robust.

[XysteR]

Probably not going to buy alot of VSTs but what just became VERY interesting is a Virus TI and the Elektron Overbridge stuff.

Exactly my thoughts. I own a Virus Ti2 Desktop. It's the only synth I can't let go of, and the only synth I own having sold off everything else for space. Saying that, it was easy to get the Virus and Serum into Reason before this new VST support. Reason 9.5 will save me 3 double mouse clicks and a bit of time on CC.

[The_G]

I'd put it this way:

Just because you have Mass Effect, doesn't mean people will forego indie games. It's like that. RE is like PSN.

[miscend]

I'd put it this way:

Just because you have Mass Effect, doesn't mean people will forego indie games. It's like that. RE is like PSN.

Well would you still buy the RE version of Spire, which has no resale value because RE's have non-tranferable licences. When you could just buy the VST which has resale value.

RE's are not like PSN because VSTs and REs are both digital download only software. The only difference between PSN and retail games is that retail games are shipped on physical disc.

[joeyluck]

I'd put it this way:

Just because you have Mass Effect, doesn't mean people will forego indie games. It's like that. RE is like PSN.

Well would you still buy the RE version of Spire, which has no resale value because RE's have non-tranferable licences. When you could just buy the VST which has resale value.

RE's are not like PSN because VSTs and REs are both digital download only software. The only difference between PSN and retail games is that retail games are shipped on physical disc.

If the Spire synth RE is an option, then I go with the RE. I only see myself buying VSTs of things I can't have as RE.
There are still so many benefits of REs over VST if the plugin exists in RE format; including being future-proof.

[Heater]

Well this has just about guaranteed I'll never buy another Rack extension again unless the Props allow the reselling of them. I'll just stick to Reason and VSTs from now on.

[eXode]

Well would you still buy the RE version of Spire, which has no resale value because RE's have non-tranferable licences. When you could just buy the VST which has resale value.

I guess it depends on the individuals wants and needs. What might be important for one may not be important for another. The no resale policy doesn't bother me and I actually prefer having devices in the rack, the one click sync of RE's and their licenses, etc so ReSpire might be more attractive (also depending on what they do with CV/AUDIO) than the VST, but there's no right and wrong here anyway. Do what suits you the best - you're a paying customer after all and now the walled garden suddenly became a little less walled.

[HepCat]

VST in Reason ... woot! I hope it happens. I don't even use VST (l have 1 cool VST synth somewhere, l think it's called "AIR"), but it feels uncomfortable when you're arbitrarily locked in to REs, know what l mean?

It can only be a good thing.

Win - because the creators are listening
Win - because you can use an entire universe of VSTs, be they free / paid / demo etc.
Win - because you'll have an influx of people into Reason
Win - because the influx of new users will bring money for Rack Extension developers
Win - because people will no longer feel like they're being forced to like Rack Extensions
Win - because the people that no longer feel they're being forced to like Rack Extensions, will like Rack Extensions / like them more than they already do
Win - because a subset of users will be able to eliminate some other DAW from their arsenal, and focus more on Reason (it's a massive headache juggling MIDI controllers between DAWs, especially when you're doing live sessions, i.e. when all controllers need to be simultaneously on).
Win - because VST makers will eye the Rack Extension market (as Kenni said)


To the guy that said (on another thread somewhere) that he'd stop using Reason because they become like other DAWs ... it's okay, just ignore VST functionality if you don't want that?! Peace.

[electrofux]

I'd put it this way:

Just because you have Mass Effect, doesn't mean people will forego indie games. It's like that. RE is like PSN.

Well would you still buy the RE version of Spire, which has no resale value because RE's have non-tranferable licences. When you could just buy the VST which has resale value.

RE's are not like PSN because VSTs and REs are both digital download only software. The only difference between PSN and retail games is that retail games are shipped on physical disc.

I will most likely go for the RE Version and one important Reason is perfect Remote integration. The other is that i dont have a floating window getting in my way.

[Flandersh]

Rack Extensions is a unique format to Reason and it still have one thing that VST doesn't: 100% freedom for the developer to create patching options on the back.

And this isn't likely to change? I remember having sort of such freedom as a VST developer some years ago, when I made VST plugins (in Synthmaker) with patching options. It worked great when using them in Sensomusic Usine. The GUI for it (in patching mode in Usine) was no more than a Reaktor module in the programming area of Reaktor, so it could not be compared to the GUI of a rack device. But it make me wonder if the GUI is the biggest challenge to such an option? And if that is big enough challenge to keep it from possibly eating up the RE format in the future?

[JerrelTheKing]

In regards to Spire I'm now faced with a similar decision with the Legend which was at the top of my wishlist. The one reason why I would buy the RE over the VST is that there are refills that I want for it. The second reason would be that at its probably better optimized from a dsp perspective. Still in all I'm super excited. Definitely buying Serum as soon as 9.5 drops

[ltbrunt00]

Think of it like this. I always thought that the culture of the average reason user was anti spending 200-500 hundred dollars on VST instruments. Now that this world is opened up and if reason users start speeding big money on VST instruments then maybe these companies will start making Rack Extensions at the higher prices knowing the user buying culture has changed.

I have spent about $1500 on VST libraries and DAWs since last November on top of all the RE stuff that I have purchased brings the total cost to about 2,000 hard core dollars.

I think the RE format is pretty solid. I would equally love to use Rack Extensions in Bitwig or Studio One. Studio One seems to traditional but maybe Bitwig will do something awesome.

Reason 9.5 is like Christmas in April.

[electrofux]

Think of it like this. I always thought that the culture of the average reason user was anti spending 200-500 hundred dollars on VST instruments. Now that this world is opened up and if reason users start speeding big money on VST instruments then maybe these companies will start making Rack Extensions at the higher prices knowing the user buying culture has changed.
.

For this to possibly kick in REs needs a new transfer System imho.

[dvdrtldg]

I'd like to think that developers who have focused on producing REs specifically designed for the Reason environment will keep doing their thing. Lectric Panda, Robotic Bean, Jiggery Pokery etc

[sdst]

I think that the RE developers should focus on CV thing like Lectric Panda, their Sequencer are Top .

[Oquasec]

Let the RE guys do their thing, let the vst guys do theirs.
If you don't like it, sell yo 9 license.

[sdst]

Let the RE guys do their thing, let the vst guys do theirs.
If you don't like it, sell yo 9 license.

Let the people think what they want, If you don't like it, leave the forum

[lzap]

REs will be still relevant, they are much better for Reason-only users. Sure some users might go for VST and use them in other DAWs, but if Reason is successful enough RE will do just fine.

Even if (theoretically) only PH would be the only one vendor providing REs that would work for me, they have so many plugins to offer today (Parsec, FX7...) but I am pretty sure much more vendors will stick with REs. Maybe even more to come!

[Oquasec]

Reason is just a daw that's built like a standalone vst. Which they have managed to maintain, I like I like.

[pquenin]

I sometime feel incomfortable in Reason because you can't open your instrument or effect in a separate window, it brings all the rack. So VSTs are welcome.

[Exowildebeest]

I sometime feel incomfortable in Reason because you can't open your instrument or effect in a separate window, it brings all the rack. So VSTs are welcome.

Not sure if sarcasm or not

Welcome to floating window hell people!

[Lizard]

As I see it we already have a base of Reason users. This is less likely to diminish due to the introduction of VST into the DAW. I mean theoretically it could for those hardcore never VSTers but I think that is a small number and almost laughable. Don't like VST? Don't use them. You haven't lost anything. Back on track though....

Now... us... the users.... and the developers.... should only see an increase in usage of Reason by the general public. This can only be an upside to sales of Re I would think as most of them are Reason Format Specific product. One of our bigger complaints has been "why aren't there more big name developers making Re?" This will be the indie advantage I think and who knows maybe increase sales to them. It also allows VST makers to look more closely on VST integration in Reason and develop a greater respect for what it can do. They might see the greater benefits it provides and start turning the technology towards VST that are more Reason friendly. Maybe they might be able to one day take advantage of distribution or upgrade technology through Propellerhead Distribution? Its a possibility.

I just have a good feeling about the VST integration at this point that it will be more kind to developers on both sides (VST and Re). I don't expect a drop in Re development or sales and if anything pick up. Maybe in short time it may sway or promote more development particularly for those who sell through the Prop shop. "Buy our VSTs and get the Re version thrown in!" Maybe this could help discourage piracy for them? Just a thought.

[gak]

So are RE's going to be re-sell able now?

[Lizard]

So are RE's going to be re-sell able now?

I still don't see that happening. I think many are in favor of it but Re won't change. If they sell VST however I don't see how they could prevent it as I wouldn't expect the licensing to be handled by them... just distribution and sales. Time will tell with that one. L)

[The_G]

I'd put it this way:

Just because you have Mass Effect, doesn't mean people will forego indie games. It's like that. RE is like PSN.

Well would you still buy the RE version of Spire, which has no resale value because RE's have non-tranferable licences. When you could just buy the VST which has resale value.

RE's are not like PSN because VSTs and REs are both digital download only software. The only difference between PSN and retail games is that retail games are shipped on physical disc.

Well, first, Spire would not count as indie. And no, I would not. But I would buy stuff from Jiggery Pokery, Blamsoft, etc.

And some bigger devs like Rob Papen and Synapse say they will continue to develop REs.