Has anyone ever received a refund?

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

Has anyone ever been able to receive a refund from Props?

For the past three days I have been trying to get the FXpansion DCAM Dynamics Bundle to show up on my laptop. The Props shop didn't list this bundle under FXpansion's products, so I thought that the bundle was no longer available. I bought the DCAM BusComp last night and was incredibly sad to finally see the bundle was still available. If I were to buy bundle, I am wondering if Props would be kind enough to refund the money for BusComp seeing as though it is an error on their site that caused me not to buy the bundle in the first place?

[gak]

I can't speak for them personally, but two things:

-It's the weekend (regardless of the location) and it might still be a day or two before you hear back.
-My scenario was like this: I bought reason 8 early this year. Right after I bought it, they had this "buy reason and get all these RE's included" and though it took about a week, they replied "no problem, here you are"

If by friday they haven't responded (again, regardless of location) then I'd be slightly worried. 

[challism]

I purchased 3 REs that were released in a rig bundle only 2 days after I purchased them.  When I emailed Props they said they don't give refunds.  So I politely referred them to the EU law on Internet purchases, and reminded them what a loyal customer I have been, and they reconsidered.  They promptly refunded my money, which was really cool of them.  But they basically got my money back immediately, though, because I used it to buy the bundle.

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

Awesome, so there is hope! I will buy the bundle then and hope they will refund the BusComp. That would be super shoddy of them if they refused it though :'( I was going to reach out to FXpansion, but I heard that their customer service doesn't tend to respond. Has anyone ever had any luck with contacting FXpansion?

 So I politely referred them to the EU law on Internet purchases

What is the EU law on internet purchases? I am curious how it differs from the USA's law on internet purchases?

[gak]

Again, I'm not sure I completely understand your situation, but if there is some kinda strange thing, my odds would be that there is an above average chance they will understand. No guaratees (I'm not them) but I wouldn't worry about it until they respond (which will happen eventually)  

[challism]

You have to register on their website just to send them a damn email.  I gotta say, I do not like the DCAM Chan AT ALL!  It's a CPU hog, and the attack knob doesn't seem to do a thing.  I tried to contact FXpansion about this, but didn't want to register... so I left a message on their facebook wall..... still no reply or response to it.  But I do love the EvnShaper, Tres and Etch.  DCAM Bus is popular with many on this forum, but I rarely use it... it's also a CPU hog. And I have a ton of compressors to chose from.  Maybe someday I will learn to use/like it more.

Anyway, here is that EU Commission link:  http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-675_en.htm

Props are basically breaking the law with their policies.  I gave them the benefit of not knowing the law, but they are well aware of it now.  I would expect their policy to change (ie, become legal) at any time now.

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

Anyway, here is that EU Commission link:  http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-675_en.htm

Oh wow! The EU Trade Commission has their consumers' back on the return policy! I wish the USA had that... :'( Haha!

[challism]

As an online retailer, and an American, I am kind of torn on the idea of the USA having the same policy.

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

Hmmm, I never really looked at it from the eyes of an online retailer, so I could see where that would not necessarily be a great policy (especially if said product was a Refill, for example, and there is no way to ensure that said "unsatisfied" buyer had deleted/removed/not duplicated said Refill after receiving their refund). I do think it would be helpful, however, in cases like this. Most retailers will refund the difference from a customer's original purchase price to the sale price if it is still within the store's return limit. But in instances like this, where online sales are truly random, I would find this kind of policy a nice way of ensuring my product's value for 14 days. A prime example would be when I bought all of Selig's RE's during his amazing sale, then only to see the next week they were included in a rig bundle. I certainly don't feel jipped, Selig's devices are completely worth their original price and more. But I absolutely would have bought that Outboard rig had I not already owned Selig's devices. But having a 14 day refund policy like that would make me, as a customer, a whole lot more happy (especially seeing as though we can't sell our RE licences anyway, haha!).

[Theo.M]

I got one for snakebite as i genuinely accidentally purchased it. The CC details were on hand and the cart was all one click (old props site) and i already had it in the cart as I was thinking about it, like from a month before, and then added something else and wasn't paying attention when i pressed checkout and accidentally bought it along with the other stuff I had just added. One email to props, all sorted out, refund and simply removed it from my account, next sync was off my dongle. So yes, I have received a refund since I came back. Am not including anything from the first time around as that is a now very dead and forgotten story

For a legit reason refunds are defo possible though they should respond soon.

[craven]

I purchased 3 REs that were released in a rig bundle only 2 days after I purchased them.  When I emailed Props they said they don't give refunds.  So I politely referred them to the EU law on Internet purchases, and reminded them what a loyal customer I have been, and they reconsidered.  They promptly refunded my money, which was really cool of them.  But they basically got my money back immediately, though, because I used it to buy the bundle.

wow, lucky you, I tried the same since I got Selig's devices in his sale just to end up with the outrig bundle afterwards. Props told me that I can't refund and I also mentioned the EU law - but I forgot to wrote how loyal I am

now I sort of have wasted my money on the Selig sale :frown:  
but Selig was so nice to offer transferring the extra licences to a friend back then. Maybe this offer still stands, I have to contact him.

[Theo.M]

I purchased 3 REs that were released in a rig bundle only 2 days after I purchased them.  When I emailed Props they said they don't give refunds.  So I politely referred them to the EU law on Internet purchases, and reminded them what a loyal customer I have been, and they reconsidered.  They promptly refunded my money, which was really cool of them.  But they basically got my money back immediately, though, because I used it to buy the bundle.

wow, lucky you, I tried the same since I got Selig's devices in his sale just to end up with the outrig bundle afterwards. Props told me that I can't refund and I also mentioned the EU law - but I forgot to wrote how loyal I am

now I sort of have wasted my money on the Selig sale :frown:  
but Selig was so nice to offer transferring the extra licences to a friend back then. Maybe this offer still stands, I have to contact him.

sorry to go OT but could you kindly PM me the Eu internet law on returns, i presume within a certain period? I am curious to know for a couple reasons, and PM is probably better so the topic doesn't get heated in any way and perhaps lead to a lock. Cheers!

(or if it's ok with everyone to post it here, go for it!)

[psychasm]

Yes i have received a full refund. jUst before Mcdsp comps went on sale , i purchased FRG. The day after that it went on sale and purchased C70 as a separate purchase. i wrote to props ,they refunded the intial purchase and i got the bundle and used the cash to spend in the  shop anyways, i think i got one of the refill bundles for $29 it was the same price as a single unit in the bundle.

[eXode]

I purchased 3 REs that were released in a rig bundle only 2 days after I purchased them.  When I emailed Props they said they don't give refunds.  So I politely referred them to the EU law on Internet purchases, and reminded them what a loyal customer I have been, and they reconsidered.  They promptly refunded my money, which was really cool of them.  But they basically got my money back immediately, though, because I used it to buy the bundle.

For what it's worth, the rules on consumer rights (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-675_en.htm) doesn't apply fully on digital download products. The refunding policy, etc is mainly for physical goods that are bought online. When it comes to digitally downloadable products it's a little different.

Basically it means that if you bought a ReFill and actually downloaded it, you don't have a right to a refund.

Quoted below for convenience:

9) Better consumer protection in relation to digital products
Information on digital content will also have to be clearer, including about its compatibility with hardware and software and the application of any technical protection measures, for example limiting the right for the consumers to make copies of the content.
Consumers will have a right to withdraw from purchases of digital content, such as music or video downloads, but only up until the moment the actual downloading process begins.

[craven]

Basically it means that if you bought a ReFill and actually downloaded it, you don't have a right to a refund.

for refills I can see why, but for REs this should not be the case since they are only of use with the licence. I really hope Props will implement a two weeks refund policy. In most cases, the 30 day trial should do the trick, though. It's just with these bundles and sales...

[selig]

I purchased 3 REs that were released in a rig bundle only 2 days after I purchased them.  When I emailed Props they said they don't give refunds.  So I politely referred them to the EU law on Internet purchases, and reminded them what a loyal customer I have been, and they reconsidered.  They promptly refunded my money, which was really cool of them.  But they basically got my money back immediately, though, because I used it to buy the bundle.

wow, lucky you, I tried the same since I got Selig's devices in his sale just to end up with the outrig bundle afterwards. Props told me that I can't refund and I also mentioned the EU law - but I forgot to wrote how loyal I am

now I sort of have wasted my money on the Selig sale :frown:  
but Selig was so nice to offer transferring the extra licences to a friend back then. Maybe this offer still stands, I have to contact him.

Yes, my offer absolutely still stands. And yes, I've seen deductions on my statement from the Props indicating they do on occasion offer refunds. But for any situations where this isn't the case, please contact me directly!

[craven]

Yes, my offer absolutely still stands. And yes, I've seen deductions on my statement from the Props indicating they do on occasion offer refunds. But for any situations where this isn't the case, please contact me directly!

that is very kind of you Selig, I'll drop you a pm

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

Here's an update - I have NOT been able to get a refund from Props. They refuse to respond in a reasonable time, or if at all. I am not too thrilled about this, especially given the fact I have spent thousands of dollars on their software, updates, hardware, and rack extensions. This doesn't include my time beta testing for them. All of this for $15. 

For comparison - 
Every time I call Amazon with an issue with my order, they not only fix it immediately, but offer instant replacement or a refund and include shipping labels to ship the item back to them. Their customer service is sympathetic, friendly and helpful. If you call them you get a response in less than 2 minutes. Amazon treats every customer as a loyal customer, even when your purchase is for $3. When I contact Propellerheads I might, MIGHT, get a reply within 48 hours. When I explain that a glitch had occurred on their site during my purchase they do not care. When pointing out that EU online trade law states that I have a 14 day return period (and I contacted them on day 1 of 14 to explain the situation), on day 5 they respond and completely ignore that fact and don't explain their reasoning for ignoring the law. Instead of a customer, I am treated like an idiot for giving them my $15. 

In their email they said that  explain "we are not able to refund or return Rack Extensions as per our agreements with third-party developers," so apparently their agreements with developers supersedes international trade law. I understand that you wouldn't allow a refund for something if it was trying to be returned on day 31 or something on a 30 day return policy, but this accidental purchase was due to a glitch on their site and they were notified less than 24 hours after this had occurred. Though this is only $15, Propellerheads is giving me a giant "**** you" in turn for my support and loyalty. Wow.

[ReasonUser]

I too was able to get a refund in the past, and the money went right back into the shop like I promised. I feel like Propellerhead did the right thing in my case.

Email support generally takes 12-24 hours on business days. But I have to remember that because of the time change (+6 hours), if I write them on a Friday I won't be getting a reply until early Monday morning.

Regarding Amazon, I think the comparison is a bit unfair. Amazon is a huge multi-billion dollar corporation. Do I wish Propellerhead support could be more like Amazon's? Yes definitely.

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

Even with time changes in mind my emails have gone 2 days+ between each response. And believe me, I am usually more than tolerant when it comes to waiting for email support, but in cases like this, I have little patience as what I would like to order with my $15 stops being on sale on the 8th. If so many people on here have stated they have received a refund for a similar situation I have no idea why I would be denied one and told it can't be done. Certainly makes me feel like a special customer, haha. :-/

Regarding Amazon though, while not exactly an apples to apples comparison, it does show what good customer service looks like versus poor. My buddy owns a small online retail t-shirt shop and is more than willing to ensure his customers satisfaction because he truly appreciates and understands that it's his customers continued support/purchases that allow him to make his living.

[eXode]

Basically it means that if you bought a ReFill and actually downloaded it, you don't have a right to a refund.

for refills I can see why, but for REs this should not be the case since they are only of use with the licence. I really hope Props will implement a two weeks refund policy. In most cases, the 30 day trial should do the trick, though. It's just with these bundles and sales...

I agree with your sentiment, but looking at it strictly black and white you have downloaded something as soon as you have synced your account (speaking of RE). So they can still choose to not give you a refund. It becomes even more complicated if you have already trialled the product as you will already have had it downloaded to begin with.

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

It becomes even more complicated if you have already trialled the product as you will already have had it downloaded to begin with.

This is true, but I feel as though because of that they should be willing to do returns like this on a case by case basis; especially if the user bought the same product twice within 24 hours. PH knows that the trial period adds complication to this issue, but I still feel like the EU law would side with the customer in a case where the customer accidentally bought the same product twice. Refills can be copied and given to others, so obviously in that since a refund is not applicable. But because of the uniqueness of how the Rack Extension system works, they are non-transferable and are completely locked to an account, there is no way to pirate them, so therefore the delivery of goods in this case can easily be removed and refunded, as many people on this forum have previously experienced. It is just frustrating, and at $15 I'm surprised that PH out of just good will alone wouldn't refund the double purchase, regardless of the laws.

[eXode]

This is true, but I feel as though because of that they should be willing to do returns like this on a case by case basis; especially if the user bought the same product twice within 24 hours. PH knows that the trial period adds complication to this issue, but I still feel like the EU law would side with the customer in a case where the customer accidentally bought the same product twice. Refills can be copied and given to others, so obviously in that since a refund is not applicable. But because of the uniqueness of how the Rack Extension system works, they are non-transferable and are completely locked to an account, there is no way to pirate them, so therefore the delivery of goods in this case can easily be removed and refunded, as many people on this forum have previously experienced. It is just frustrating, and at $15 I'm surprised that PH out of just good will alone wouldn't refund the double purchase, regardless of the laws.

I understand your frustration. Have you tried contacting FXpansion directly to see if they can help you out instead?

[K1TTENM1TTEN]

Have you tried contacting FXpansion directly to see if they can help you out instead?

I tried calling them this morning on the phone and left a message but have not received a call back yet. I will send them an email as well. It would be absolutely awesome if FXpansion could/would help me out in this case. I am still hoping PH decides to do right thing though. :-/

[ReasonUser]

I'm sure it's done on a case by case basis. Refunds are very rare. At first the answer was no. But with some persistence I was able to get a yes. Thing is, if you've already installed to your key/computer you could get the refund and keep using the RE without having paid for it. In my case I had not, so it was pretty clear I wasn't trying to pull a fast one. For 15 dollars I wouldn't sweat it so much. I'm sure some good luck will come your way soon.