VSTs are weak compared to REs

[bitword]

OT - but in reply to a previous post...

Piracy is a huge problem that doesn't serve anyone - even the fables they tell, such as 'they wouldn't buy it anyhow, so your not loosing money' and 'it not physical, so it's really not stealing, it's copying', 'you should be flattered that people want your stuff', etc... it's all sophistry... A lot of the stats / traffic, and on some days the majority of the traffic comes FROM pirate sites linking to mine so they can test listen to the demos - then they move along and download if they want. Especially when something was released, I test released some things in the past year, and the traffic showed that it was pirated in less than a week. For what it's worth, and I know this might bum some people out, but WaveFront-2 was never release because of these tests - and the props provide no form of protection for refills.

For my time in the industry, which is longer than, and more involved than just bitword.com - piracy is the main (yet unmentioned until now) reason for getting out of the industry. I do have a lot of new demands out of life now, things have gotten complicated recently, but piracy is just making the time involved not really worth staying up late at night, hoping things will change, they are just getting worse, especially since the web is deeper than it ever was. It's just not worth playing cat and mouse with people that earn money on your hard work with banner ads and click throughs, etc... on their sites. Also, there is a lot of activity going on across many ports on the internet that is piracy, not just the web.

I wish all developers a great future, I'm not trying to be a downer, but do really take a look at what is going on, as a community - robin hood isn't happening, they are making money doing it. Take a look at the info field on my refills after WF - that is there for a reason.

Anyhow, this is totally off topic, but I just had to do a long winded +1 -thank you for your time...

[DNA Apocalypse]

OT - but in reply to a previous post...

Piracy is a huge problem that doesn't serve anyone - even the fables they tell, such as 'they wouldn't buy it anyhow, so your not loosing money' and 'it not physical, so it's really not stealing, it's copying', 'you should be flattered that people want your stuff', etc... it's all sophistry... A lot of the stats / traffic, and on some days the majority of the traffic comes FROM pirate sites linking to mine so they can test listen to the demos - then they move along and download if they want. Especially when something was released, I test released some things in the past year, and the traffic showed that it was pirated in less than a week. For what it's worth, and I know this might bum some people out, but WaveFront-2 was never release because of these tests - and the props provide no form of protection for refills.

For my time in the industry, which is longer than, and more involved than just bitword.com - piracy is the main (yet unmentioned until now) reason for getting out of the industry. I do have a lot of new demands out of life now, things have gotten complicated recently, but piracy is just making the time involved not really worth staying up late at night, hoping things will change, they are just getting worse, especially since the web is deeper than it ever was. It's just not worth playing cat and mouse with people that earn money on your hard work with banner ads and click throughs, etc... on their sites. Also, there is a lot of activity going on across many ports on the internet that is piracy, not just the web.

I wish all developers a great future, I'm not trying to be a downer, but do really take a look at what is going on, as a community - robin hood isn't happening, they are making money doing it. Take a look at the info field on my refills after WF - that is there for a reason.

Anyhow, this is totally off topic, but I just had to do a long winded +1 -thank you for your time...

2 things you said that just sound off:
Devs should be flattered that pirates are stealing and copying?????
It's not really stealing,it's copying because its not physical?????

Well, It is physical, its' literally taking potential money out of a developers pocket, literally. Your train of thought is that for example: Authentic Gucci gets more popular and should be flattered that there are fake gucci products being copied and resold......in your train of thought: "its not stealing, its copying"
There is something just wrong about this point of view, it seems as if somehow you think it helps a dev to get his work stolen. Like giving his work away somehow makes the pirate want to buy the retail version after they already got it for free.....??????? Anyway if thats your POV then great but please don't pirate reason stuff man.

[boobytrap]

I just wanted to clarify how lucky reason users are for having the sandboxed res that perform like superstars.....if you disagree I invite you to a debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vsts are for for poor pirate producers....res are for the producers that actually make money from their craft!!!! Correct me if I am Wrong! Sorry if I offended anyone! Just my opinion.................

I’m totally disagree. Can you name RE to compare with Fabfilter PRO vst’s, SERUM, Massive, and Zebra 2? What about Ozone 7. This is completely heathen and horrible.
use reason use RE and Love reason. But don’t become extremist of Reason

[tt_lab]

OT - but in reply to a previous post...

Piracy is a huge problem that doesn't serve anyone - even the fables they tell, such as 'they wouldn't buy it anyhow, so your not loosing money' and 'it not physical, so it's really not stealing, it's copying', 'you should be flattered that people want your stuff', etc... it's all sophistry... A lot of the stats / traffic, and on some days the majority of the traffic comes FROM pirate sites linking to mine so they can test listen to the demos - then they move along and download if they want. Especially when something was released, I test released some things in the past year, and the traffic showed that it was pirated in less than a week. For what it's worth, and I know this might bum some people out, but WaveFront-2 was never release because of these tests - and the props provide no form of protection for refills.

For my time in the industry, which is longer than, and more involved than just bitword.com - piracy is the main (yet unmentioned until now) reason for getting out of the industry. I do have a lot of new demands out of life now, things have gotten complicated recently, but piracy is just making the time involved not really worth staying up late at night, hoping things will change, they are just getting worse, especially since the web is deeper than it ever was. It's just not worth playing cat and mouse with people that earn money on your hard work with banner ads and click throughs, etc... on their sites. Also, there is a lot of activity going on across many ports on the internet that is piracy, not just the web.

I wish all developers a great future, I'm not trying to be a downer, but do really take a look at what is going on, as a community - robin hood isn't happening, they are making money doing it. Take a look at the info field on my refills after WF - that is there for a reason.

Anyhow, this is totally off topic, but I just had to do a long winded +1 -thank you for your time...

2 things you said that just sound off:
Devs should be flattered that pirates are stealing and copying?????
It's not really stealing,it's copying because its not physical?????

Well, It is physical, its' literally taking potential money out of a developers pocket, literally. Your train of thought is that for example: Authentic Gucci gets more popular and should be flattered that there are fake gucci products being copied and resold......in your train of thought: "its not stealing, its copying"
There is something just wrong about this point of view, it seems as if somehow you think it helps a dev to get his work stolen. Like giving his work away somehow makes the pirate want to buy the retail version after they already got it for free.....??????? Anyway if thats your POV then great but please don't pirate reason stuff man.

You have to re-read him, he was saying just the oposite. You got it all wrong. He sais the same youi are saying.

[tibah]

WaveFront-2

Oh dear!

And yea, definitely reread what bitword/Marc wrote. Quotations.

[Gulale]

Here is the thing about piracy. No matter what you do the people who pirate your software will never stop pirating when the opportunity presents itself and those who prefer not to has our stand in mind which is paying for the product we use see it as a way of appreciation. Yesterday when I buy Reaper, for me there was one thing in mind which is appreciation of the DAW. Me paying for that product was expression of my feeling to the developers. Was it not available for download all over the internet? sure it was.
But, that won't allow me to say thank you when I'm using and If you think suckers will make out a company out of business just because of they are pirating, you are wrong. There are double of the number of people who are buying that product. In fact those suckers are advertisers all over available forums. Don't hate them use them. People who download crack stuff are downloading for the sake of downloading. it doesn't mean they are using them. Where I live there was a dude who frequently download crack stuff but never used half of them and I asked him why he was doing that and he said "Man you will never know Torrent might not be available in the future and also He said what if he doesn't have internet in the future" I just smiled cause a guy assumed that people like him will never be around the world. IF I was a developer, I wouldn't wish that type of person to by even my paid user.

I see people in a daily bases comparing themselves with pirates and feel good when they use copy protected software. when it is cracked,they will start having grey hair . Really, are they that cheap comparing themselves with those who don't show appreciation to developers. Which means the secret behind when they are buying that product is not cause they understand what it does but either to talk about it cause they have it or to look unique. When pirates got it they will start to insult their beloved company as if it disappoints them.

Piracy doesn't show how people are satisfied with your product but it shows how many ungrateful people out there.

[DNA Apocalypse]

OT - but in reply to a previous post...

Piracy is a huge problem that doesn't serve anyone - even the fables they tell, such as 'they wouldn't buy it anyhow, so your not loosing money' and 'it not physical, so it's really not stealing, it's copying', 'you should be flattered that people want your stuff', etc... it's all sophistry... A lot of the stats / traffic, and on some days the majority of the traffic comes FROM pirate sites linking to mine so they can test listen to the demos - then they move along and download if they want. Especially when something was released, I test released some things in the past year, and the traffic showed that it was pirated in less than a week. For what it's worth, and I know this might bum some people out, but WaveFront-2 was never release because of these tests - and the props provide no form of protection for refills.

For my time in the industry, which is longer than, and more involved than just bitword.com - piracy is the main (yet unmentioned until now) reason for getting out of the industry. I do have a lot of new demands out of life now, things have gotten complicated recently, but piracy is just making the time involved not really worth staying up late at night, hoping things will change, they are just getting worse, especially since the web is deeper than it ever was. It's just not worth playing cat and mouse with people that earn money on your hard work with banner ads and click throughs, etc... on their sites. Also, there is a lot of activity going on across many ports on the internet that is piracy, not just the web.

I wish all developers a great future, I'm not trying to be a downer, but do really take a look at what is going on, as a community - robin hood isn't happening, they are making money doing it. Take a look at the info field on my refills after WF - that is there for a reason.

Anyhow, this is totally off topic, but I just had to do a long winded +1 -thank you for your time...

Hey Bitword I am sorry I totally misread that! You make perfect sense.

[DNA Apocalypse]

I just wanted to clarify how lucky reason users are for having the sandboxed res that perform like superstars.....if you disagree I invite you to a debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vsts are for for poor pirate producers....res are for the producers that actually make money from their craft!!!! Correct me if I am Wrong! Sorry if I offended anyone! Just my opinion.................

I’m totally disagree. Can you name RE to compare with Fabfilter PRO vst’s, SERUM, Massive, and Zebra 2? What about Ozone 7. This is completely heathen and horrible.
use reason use RE and Love reason. But don’t become extremist of Reason

Every single available RE can compete directly with those VSTs you mentioned and demolish them in terms of stability and solidity. I'll say it again I am not speaking in terms of nice sounds, gui design, or cool filtering capabilities etc. I am speaking in terms of performance without error.

[mreese80]

RE's have nothing on vst's. The development for Re's are so slow. I prefer vsts over over re's any damn. You have access to way more sounds and better quality sounding at that. The best sounds ever for Reason are made by bitley. All his products are top of the line. I've yet to see anything like trillian bass for reason. Reason is dead last for everything and it's still limited and behind. Abelton & Akai MPC Software have way more to offer imo. Reason sequencer is amazing though.

[submonsterz]

I just wanted to clarify how lucky reason users are for having the sandboxed res that perform like superstars.....if you disagree I invite you to a debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vsts are for for poor pirate producers....res are for the producers that actually make money from their craft!!!! Correct me if I am Wrong! Sorry if I offended anyone! Just my opinion.................

Reason is not the only daw to now be using sandboxing for pluggins. So thats that one out
and more top brand daws are looking more likely than ever to be introducing this too.
If piracy was even an issue no vst's would be made or released as it would not be worth a dev doing so in the first place.
Id say any vst worth its wieght sells just fine even with piracy and a lot more units being sold per unit compaired to re .
Vst have also become very stable in modern hosts compaired to the ancient times you seem to have based your view on.
I do dissagree very strongly infact in most of what you say.
Also the re sand boxing comes at a price in extra resources being used having a middle man as such.
And on only pros use reason as your comment suggests
Well reason seems to be populated mostly by hobbyists from what ive gathered over the years.
Also res have had there problems and deaw backs and bugs and instabillitys . Some still have them long after being found to perform not as should.
So in a nutshell yup i dissagree and thats my argument to it.
Enjoy.

"Vst have also become very stable in modern hosts" LAUGHABLE....please be more specific so I can demolish your anemic and fragile, to say the least ,hollow assumptions. Well, is it Ozone? Nope sorry ....Waves? nope sorry not very dependable at all and to keep this short, those two I named have the highest budgets. By the way both have been cracked and pirated.

P.s. Bitwig is sandboxed albeit very poorly..... I have to say because multiple instances of Legit Nexus, and VIP software plugins have crashed as I have this daw also.

Anyway thanks for the easy win bro! j/k but you tried...

Good story.
I go by my experiences and i am happy with vst performances on my system. And the stabillity too no problems and worrys here.
I have as many hiccups in reason .
Just love them device errors dont you.
Many people get them in reason or you must have had your eyes completely closed.
I see you go on about this was a little test to find re haters lol really.
If people hated them they wouldnt be buying them or talking about them like me .
Just because me or others see the faults and the lacking in the re system doesnt mean we dont buy or use or even like some of them.
And youve never brought your system to a halt lol lol good for you ive not hit computer too slow etc on my system i got at the moe either. Only because i like to bounce to audio and reprocess most things .
Im shure if like me you want to cripple your system its easily done and with things you wouldnt had thought you could do it with.
Just reminded me i never bought your device ask yourself why ..........

[Skullture]

Vsts are for for poor pirate producers.... money

money

You make an interesting comment, however. You seem to mix up two important points. One being the pirating aspect, and the other one being the quality of the product. These are two separate subjects imo. So I'm confused what the point is you're trying to make.

The point is clear. Read the Subject title.

Not at all, lol. What are you saying? Something is "weak". You're not defining "weak".

OK what I mean is: There is a feeling of solidity in performance when using REs as compared to the fidgety issues of VST stability. I mean there is a strength I notice in the performance of , specifically all Reason instruments/effects but more direct, I mean REs because they are direct rivals of VSTs IMO. Its the easiest word I can think of to describe them...

I think you're right too

[Iapetus 9]

I can't load my samples into a RE. Checkmate. I know I sound like a broken record, but after playing with some most excellent, free and stable as fuck, De La Mancha plugins, I'm always reminded on how many RE's I'd buy in a New York second if I could only import.

As for the Pirates...LOL...I absolutely love how the little shitleeches think they have a voice in the music industry and justify their habit. Good on you liitle shavers! You'll grow up soon enough...someday, and when the Pirates steal your hard work, you'll cry fowl that you can't put food on your fams plate. As for now, yer pure comedy gold.

[boobytrap]

I just wanted to clarify how lucky reason users are for having the sandboxed res that perform like superstars.....if you disagree I invite you to a debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vsts are for for poor pirate producers....res are for the producers that actually make money from their craft!!!! Correct me if I am Wrong! Sorry if I offended anyone! Just my opinion.................

I’m totally disagree. Can you name RE to compare with Fabfilter PRO vst’s, SERUM, Massive, and Zebra 2? What about Ozone 7. This is completely heathen and horrible.
use reason use RE and Love reason. But don’t become extremist of Reason

Every single available RE can compete directly with those VSTs you mentioned and demolish them in terms of stability and solidity. I'll say it again I am not speaking in terms of nice sounds, gui design, or cool filtering capabilities etc. I am speaking in terms of performance without error.

I use above VST not SERUM, without any error. they got everything like GUI, Nice sounds and many possibilities. problem is RE development is under very limited environment. that's what you cannot compare. robpapen said he cant build Predator 2 coz of SDK limits.

[boobytrap]

Vsts are for for poor pirate producers..........

Piracy comes 4 ways

1. Vst & DAW Piracy
2. Samples Piracy
3. Patches & Presets Piracy
4. Tutorial Video Piracy

1 & 2 can be identified or monitored. but 3 & 4 ? it's also apply for reason users too. people use Pirate refills and Videos. patches are not come with any copyright method. anyone who own the synth he can copy the preset structure. also videos, what if after someone watch and learn.... this world is cruel man ! I mean not habitable for Virgin Producers...

http://www.youredm.com/2015/02/24/avici ... -software/

they become Millionaires using Pirate VST, and they still living fine

[Michaellos]

njubi wrote:
Very good points and I love REs, but it doesn't matter how good (we think) the technology is if it is hardly supported. All major plugin companies support VST. Almost none of them support RE's.


Doesnt matter how ?

Firstly, there are a number of major players on the RE circuit, I don't need to name them.

I love Reason, but it looks like major plugin companies don't really have much interest in supporting Re's. A couple of days ago I asked Softube if they plan to continue porting their plugins in Re format, since almost two years had passed from releasing Tube-Tech Channel Strip, and their feedback was that "there doesn’t seem to be much talk about new Rack Extension plugins here at the office right now."

[Gorgon]

Who let this guy out of the asylum?

[Gorgon]

I have to be brutally honest. This was a calculated thread to reveal the reason haters floating around in this reason forum. Thanks for exposing yourselves! I'll go back into my little hole now. By the way I love the sounds VSTs are capable of and also the lack of limitations....but if you read what I said, I am NOT speaking on that aspect at all, I am speaking on the errors they make when in use. (not errors caused by dsp handicapped computers)

And you're supposed to be a RE developer? If I was Propellerhead, I would keep my business as far away from you as possible.

[chk071]

The industry standard is also the most pirated. That would be VST's. The result of the piracy is more positive than negative; it seems to generally increase widespread exposure, which in turn results in more legit sales and overall hype. Let's not bag on bedroom pirates too much. They are an important part of the scene.

Why are plugins getting pirated so much? Because the "pros" in popular music genres use them, and endorse them. That's the main reason they get pirated so much, because every kid who doesn't care, or has the money, pirates the plugin. Pirates are not important. They aren't a vital part of hypes either. The star producers are. If Sylenth1 wasn't used by every frigging EDM producer, big or small, out there, it wouldn't be that popular, or warezed as much. But then, is that important even? It's at the very least debatable if people using warez really would have bought the plugin. There are indications that some would do, if they couldn't access warez, but there's people with gigabytes of audio warez on their external harddrive, and i doubt they would have, or would have been able to, buy all that stuff.

[chk071]

I have to be brutally honest. This was a calculated thread to reveal the reason haters floating around in this reason forum. Thanks for exposing yourselves! I'll go back into my little hole now. By the way I love the sounds VSTs are capable of and also the lack of limitations....but if you read what I said, I am NOT speaking on that aspect at all, I am speaking on the errors they make when in use. (not errors caused by dsp handicapped computers)

And you're supposed to be a RE developer? If I was Propellerhead, I would keep my business as far away from you as possible.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, not that he had a good point to start off with, with all that bashing, but that's really weak now. Talking of "weak" and stuff.

[boobytrap]

I have to be brutally honest. This was a calculated thread to reveal the reason haters floating around in this reason forum. Thanks for exposing yourselves! I'll go back into my little hole now. By the way I love the sounds VSTs are capable of and also the lack of limitations....but if you read what I said, I am NOT speaking on that aspect at all, I am speaking on the errors they make when in use. (not errors caused by dsp handicapped computers)

And you're supposed to be a RE developer? If I was Propellerhead, I would keep my business as far away from you as possible.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, not that he had a good point to start off with, with all that bashing, but that's really weak now. Talking of "weak" and stuff.

I think like 50% Sylenth1 users are using pirated VST. LennarDigital only get 50% from real usage profit. DNA Apocalypse got all 100 % of profit as a developer thanks to PH. maybe that's why he thinks RE's are Stable than VST. as a happy business man

[chk071]

I have to be brutally honest. This was a calculated thread to reveal the reason haters floating around in this reason forum. Thanks for exposing yourselves! I'll go back into my little hole now. By the way I love the sounds VSTs are capable of and also the lack of limitations....but if you read what I said, I am NOT speaking on that aspect at all, I am speaking on the errors they make when in use. (not errors caused by dsp handicapped computers)

And you're supposed to be a RE developer? If I was Propellerhead, I would keep my business as far away from you as possible.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, not that he had a good point to start off with, with all that bashing, but that's really weak now. Talking of "weak" and stuff.

I think like 50% Sylenth1 users are using pirated VST. LennarDigital only get 50% from real usage profit. DNA Apocalypse got all 100 % of profit as a developer thanks to PH. maybe that's why he thinks RE's are Stable than VST. as a happy business man

Well, if you want to show me the source of the figures you mentioned, i'd happily believe that too. And again, not ever warezed software user would have really bought the software.

[submonsterz]

I have to be brutally honest. This was a calculated thread to reveal the reason haters floating around in this reason forum. Thanks for exposing yourselves! I'll go back into my little hole now. By the way I love the sounds VSTs are capable of and also the lack of limitations....but if you read what I said, I am NOT speaking on that aspect at all, I am speaking on the errors they make when in use. (not errors caused by dsp handicapped computers)

And you're supposed to be a RE developer? If I was Propellerhead, I would keep my business as far away from you as possible.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, not that he had a good point to start off with, with all that bashing, but that's really weak now. Talking of "weak" and stuff.

I think like 50% Sylenth1 users are using pirated VST. LennarDigital only get 50% from real usage profit. DNA Apocalypse got all 100 % of profit as a developer thanks to PH. maybe that's why he thinks RE's are Stable than VST. as a happy business man

Not quite right his device he made was a very expensive idt device . Which as you know props take a huge percentage of every sale . Maybe if it was a vst and pirated his cut might had wieghed in more on the profit margin. But then again his device in comparison to some vsts is not much to write home about . Nice interface on a sample script player . Maybe props cut on idt in such a small market has a big weight compaired to vst and pirating has for vst maybe its a worse effect on profit to have to deal with.
Anyhow unless these re/idt devs pay to have a company code thier products or create the interfaces for them . Or as jiggery did for one idt he made buy instruments etc to specifically sample for the product or buy the rights or re-use license for a sample libary to use the cost of production is not monetery but time .

[boobytrap]

I have to be brutally honest. This was a calculated thread to reveal the reason haters floating around in this reason forum. Thanks for exposing yourselves! I'll go back into my little hole now. By the way I love the sounds VSTs are capable of and also the lack of limitations....but if you read what I said, I am NOT speaking on that aspect at all, I am speaking on the errors they make when in use. (not errors caused by dsp handicapped computers)

And you're supposed to be a RE developer? If I was Propellerhead, I would keep my business as far away from you as possible.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, not that he had a good point to start off with, with all that bashing, but that's really weak now. Talking of "weak" and stuff.

I think like 50% Sylenth1 users are using pirated VST. LennarDigital only get 50% from real usage profit. DNA Apocalypse got all 100 % of profit as a developer thanks to PH. maybe that's why he thinks RE's are Stable than VST. as a happy business man

Well, if you want to show me the source of the figures you mentioned, i'd happily believe that too. And again, not ever warezed software user would have really bought the software.

many of youtube videos show's Sylenth1 with Team Air license Plate. EVEN IN SOME PAYING TUTORIALS( I don't wanna name the, you can search and see)
KV331 Audio Claims Martin Garrix Is Using An Illegal Copy of a Plugin
http://www.edmsauce.com/2014/01/10/kv33 ... in-garrix/

but the funny part is Martin Garrix in the front page of KV331 Audio as a power user...
http://www.kv331audio.com/

MG.png (266.06 KiB) Viewed 2801 times

i'm so happy about me coz I spend my life( late life every earn ) on my home studio....

[chk071]

I know about this. But that doesn't make claims about 50 % of Sylenth1 users using warez any more true. It may be true, it may be not. It may be even higher, who knows? But are those people really guys who would have bought the plugin in the end? Or do any relevant things with it, like, you know, producing music? I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of warez users (to also assume a figure) download Sylenth1, and loads of sound sets, play every sound once for an hour or so, and then lose interest, because they have no idea what to do with it.

Oh, and Garrix, Avicii, and such have been contacted by Lennardigital, and it turned out they do own a valid license. At least that was the official word from Lennard, or Ruben. (same probably holds true for the Synthmaster thing) After all, it would be kind of silly to publicly stone these artists anyway, because it is the hand which feeds the devs.

[Olivier]

Thread locked. The rules apply to everybody.