Are players useful with RRP?

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svenh
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Post 15 Mar 2023

I have been more or less away from music production for a couple of years and I hope to be able to reenter the playground as soon as I get a new computer that I ordered.

While waiting, I wonder, are players useful with RRP? I think many of the players from Reason Studios look interesting, but I will most likely fire up the RRP from Ableton Live. Is the player functionality limited in any way when running the RRP (automation?, writing midi to track,...)

Thanks,
Sven

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visheshl
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Post 15 Mar 2023

Players are a great tool in RRP, i use them all the time in Ableton.

Theres a small catch though, Ableton won't allow you to put a midi plugin and a sound generator plugin on the same track.
You have to have a separate midi track with RRP players on one track the send the midi data to another track with the sound generator plugin like a synth vst etc.

I have asked Ableton about this, but probably they have a tie up with max and they do not want vsts to work like native max for live devices. Or it has to do something with steinberg... whatever it is, you have to put them on separate tracks.

How I'd like this to work is when you put a vst plugin on a track, its container should have a button called 'use as midi plugin', you turn it on and it works like a native midi plugin...that is you can put other vsts after it on the same track... thats not how it works though.
But its a minor inconvenience...you just create more tracks per sound thats all... otherwise players work great in Ableton.

Automation etc works exactly as it works with any other vst...

spencer335
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Post 15 Mar 2023

visheshl wrote:
15 Mar 2023


How I'd like this to work is when you put a vst plugin on a track, its container should have a button called 'use as midi plugin', you turn it on and it works like a native midi plugin...that is you can put other vsts after it on the same track... thats not how it works though.
But its a minor inconvenience...you just create more tracks per sound thats all... otherwise players work great in Ableton.
Studio One works the same as Ableton in this regard. Bitwig is the only DAW I'm aware of (besides Reason!) where players work as you're describing (you don't even need to hit a button - it just works!).

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svenh
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Post 15 Mar 2023

Valuable info - thanks for taking the time to reply!
/Sven

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visheshl
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Post 15 Mar 2023

spencer335 wrote:
15 Mar 2023
visheshl wrote:
15 Mar 2023


How I'd like this to work is when you put a vst plugin on a track, its container should have a button called 'use as midi plugin', you turn it on and it works like a native midi plugin...that is you can put other vsts after it on the same track... thats not how it works though.
But its a minor inconvenience...you just create more tracks per sound thats all... otherwise players work great in Ableton.
Studio One works the same as Ableton in this regard. Bitwig is the only DAW I'm aware of (besides Reason!) where players work as you're describing (you don't even need to hit a button - it just works!).
Hmm, thats good to know, but bigwig seemed not that inviting to use when i trialled it...its nice but i don't know man, i didn't feel encouraged to make music with it...for me Ableton and RRP are an amazing combo... made for each other...both companies should find a middle ground to use CV data though, like use reason lfos to modulate the DAW parameters of Ableton or use Ableton parameters or lfos etc to modulate RRP parameters...

I'll try bitwig again sometime, maybe this time around the experience pushes me to buy it... I've heard good things about bitwig.

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huggermugger
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Post 15 Mar 2023

I use Logic not Ableton. But I can tell you that Players are the number one reason I use the RRP in Logic. I love working with Players, and in Logic they really kick the workflow up a notch or ten. :)
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visheshl
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Post 15 Mar 2023

huggermugger wrote:
15 Mar 2023
I use Logic not Ableton. But I can tell you that Players are the number one reason I use the RRP in Logic. I love working with Players, and in Logic they really kick the workflow up a notch or ten. :)
Bro I'd love to buy a new mac and logic... unfortunately its just too expensive for me... I've always been a fan of apple products, but they make it prohibitively expensive.
I'm a middle class indian boy, and i can't spend that much money on a computer and software, its like telling a middle class person that a Rolls-Royce is a great car and that they should try it out or buy it.

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joeyluck
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Post 15 Mar 2023

visheshl wrote:
15 Mar 2023
huggermugger wrote:
15 Mar 2023
I use Logic not Ableton. But I can tell you that Players are the number one reason I use the RRP in Logic. I love working with Players, and in Logic they really kick the workflow up a notch or ten. :)
Bro I'd love to buy a new mac and logic... unfortunately its just too expensive for me... I've always been a fan of apple products, but they make it prohibitively expensive.
You don't need to buy a brand new Mac or the most powerful. I am still using a 2015 MacBook Air, 2.2 GHz i7, 8GB RAM, 512 GB SSD. It's enough computer for me for now.

Apple sells refurbished computers: https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac
and https://www.macofalltrades.com/ is another great place to check out

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visheshl
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Post 15 Mar 2023

joeyluck wrote:
15 Mar 2023
visheshl wrote:
15 Mar 2023


Bro I'd love to buy a new mac and logic... unfortunately its just too expensive for me... I've always been a fan of apple products, but they make it prohibitively expensive.
You don't need to buy a brand new Mac or the most powerful. I am still using a 2015 MacBook Air, 2.2 GHz i7, 8GB RAM, 512 GB SSD. It's enough computer for me for now.

Apple sells refurbished computers: https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac
and https://www.macofalltrades.com/ is another great place to check out
True, true...

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visheshl
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Post 15 Mar 2023

Anyway, lets not hijack this thread, the main topic is players in another daw...back to the main topic...

WaxTrax
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Post 15 Mar 2023

+1 Logic Pro with RRP. You can have multiple rack instances on the same track - 1 for the Midi FX, 1 for the instrument, and multiple for the effects. Doing it that way might be a waste of resources, but it is possible.

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Billy+
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Post 15 Mar 2023

I've only recently got into Live 11 suite and haven't used players since switching RRP.

I find

bluearp
scaler
captain

to be far better and they are a lot cheaper ;)

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 15 Mar 2023

I use players all the time in live 11 Suite.

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DaveyG
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Post 15 Mar 2023

"Are players useful with RRP?"

Yes, yes, and thrice yes.
There is no magic "write midi to track" button but you can just record the midi output. For me players are absolutely the best thing about Reason, both standalone and RRP.

MuttReason
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Post 15 Mar 2023

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Mar 2023
I use players all the time in live 11 Suite.
Same here, in fact my standard Ableton Live template has a Reason RRP loaded on one channel with a Player in it (usually BeatMap) and another RRP loaded in the channel next to it for instruments with the MIDI In settings set to the Player channel. I use that combo so often it’s now my default setup every time Live starts up.

I love RRP in Live, it’s the best of all worlds. Pretty much everything I do now is Live with RRP, with Reason DAW when I’m travelling with laptop only.

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huggermugger
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Post 15 Mar 2023

DaveyG wrote:
15 Mar 2023

There is no magic "write midi to track" button but you can just record the midi output.
I'm hoping that Props figures this one out eventually. The Send To Track button is one of the main reasons that Players are so great to use.

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svenh
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Post 16 Mar 2023

OK, so I take it that players are obviously not as fully integrated yet as they are in the Reason DAW, but still very useful - thanks again for your replies!

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 16 Mar 2023

huggermugger wrote:
15 Mar 2023
I'm hoping that Props figures this one out eventually.
Chances for that are slim to none. To get that functionality in other DAWs, they need to support the DAW-side of that 'write to track' function. That means some sort of standardized communication protocol that DAWs then should implement to support write to track from players. And because that would only be useful for Reason rack players, I don't see any DAW developer eager to throw development hours on something like that.

Unless the VST3 MIDI spec supports something like “write to track” and both VST plugins and DAWs are starting to support that.
svenh wrote:
16 Mar 2023
OK, so I take it that players are obviously not as fully integrated yet as they are in the Reason DAW...
It's not how (much) players are integrated into the DAW, it is how much the DAW supports that integration. The Reason DAW supports players better for obvious reasons. Other DAWs need to implement such integration for it to work that way. So, it is not the integration on the RRP side of things, it is the integration on the DAW side.

However, a player inside the RRP, behaves pretty much the same as any MIDI VST plugin, so it is at the same level of integration.
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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visheshl
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Post 16 Mar 2023

Correct, for write to track to happen, first steinberg (because they are the creators of VST technology) needs to have a seperate category of plugins called midi plugins, and those midi plugins need to have write to track functionality in their sdk. Then, Just like reason rack plugin has two seperate vsts, one for instruments and one for effects, they(RS) would need to create a third RRP version called RRP midi plugin, which would support the write to track functionality which steinberg provides in the midi vst sdk, which would then be implemented by the daw if they want to support write to track function for midi VSTs.

😂
Not as simple as it looks.

That, or RS do something hacky and get it done 😅

Tiny Montgomery
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Post 16 Mar 2023

MuttReason wrote:
15 Mar 2023
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Mar 2023
I use players all the time in live 11 Suite.
Same here, in fact my standard Ableton Live template has a Reason RRP loaded on one channel with a Player in it (usually BeatMap) and another RRP loaded in the channel next to it for instruments with the MIDI In settings set to the Player channel. I use that combo so often it’s now my default setup every time Live starts up.

I love RRP in Live, it’s the best of all worlds. Pretty much everything I do now is Live with RRP, with Reason DAW when I’m travelling with laptop only.
Same here, every session. In fact I'm still running Ableton in Rosetta mode so I can run the RRP on the M1. Currently resisting the Ableton update as well as I'm hoping the M1 update for Reason is imminent (please!),

The first thing to try is RRP on one midi channel with the Reason midi device beneath a Beatmap. Then set another midi channel to receive that midi and load one of Abletons drum rack presets or build your own. If you're new to Ableton remember you can just drap and drop the drum pads around the drum rack to quickly line up snares, hats and perc with the Beatmap output (quicker than changing the midi notes on Beatmap) and you quickly have something going.

For a more melodic start a rack containing Chord sequencer playing keys or a synth cabled to a baseline generator tamed with scales and chords device with chords off is an amazing way to try lots of musically dense ideas with different sounds. Once you have something to expand on it's easy to just duplicate Ableton channels and start sending the midi you have to different VSTs or Ableton devices. It's basically my whole workflow now.

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w1pl0c
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Post 16 Mar 2023

reason studios needs to implement similar midi function into their workflow… or i wont buy their new instrument

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 16 Mar 2023

w1pl0c wrote:
16 Mar 2023
reason studios needs to implement similar midi function into their workflow…
Or, here's a radical idea, you could use their DAW with all the goodies that other DAWs don't have, like “write to track” from players :puf_wink:
w1pl0c wrote:
16 Mar 2023
or i wont buy their new instrument
Yep, that'll make them do what YOU want :lol:
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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DaveyG
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Post 16 Mar 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
16 Mar 2023
huggermugger wrote:
15 Mar 2023
I'm hoping that Props figures this one out eventually.
Chances for that are slim to none. To get that functionality in other DAWs, they need to support the DAW-side of that 'write to track' function. That means some sort of standardized communication protocol that DAWs then should implement to support write to track from players. And because that would only be useful for Reason rack players, I don't see any DAW developer eager to throw development hours on something like that.
Yeah, they can't write direct to a host DAW track but they could add a MIDI drag feature that would be a decent halfway house. But we know they will never add that functionality!

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 16 Mar 2023

DaveyG wrote:
16 Mar 2023
... but they could add a MIDI drag feature that would be a decent halfway house.
Totally agree to that. MIDI drag/drop is one of the very few things I'm missing in Reason. Not only from a player to a track, but how about dragging a MIDI-clip directly into a player :thumbup:
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

shropshirelad
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Post 28 Mar 2023

I can't get RRP Players like Chord Sequencer to work in Studio One 6. Scaler 2 works, so it's not the way I'm setting things up - they should both work in the same way. I also use Logic, where it works perfectly, so not a deal breaker but I'd like to get it going in S1 if I can. Anyone with experience or ideas about what could be wrong?

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