Bitwig with reason rack

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Jac459
Posts: 481
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Location: Singapore

Post 28 Jun 2022

Hi, trying to overcome the limitations of reason (90% of it being vst2 size issues and vst3 for me), I tried a few competitors with no luck (logic, reaper and live). Basically the general approach of these programs don't appeal to me.
No other DAW give me this kind of childish experimental pleasure like reason...

That is before I trialed bitwig yesterday.

Somehow I got stuck for hours playing around with the tool and integration with RRP.

So my question is: do some of you use bitwig with RRP? Is it a good experience for you? Do you see advantage versus using reason standalone?

Thanks in advance!
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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rcbuse
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Post 28 Jun 2022

I've been using Bitwig with RRP v11 for the past 6 months and absolutely love it. When I started it felt like I was melting my mind with all the possibilities. It still feels like that.

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moofi
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Post 28 Jun 2022

What possibilities are you referring to?
rcbuse wrote:
28 Jun 2022
I've been using Bitwig with RRP v11 for the past 6 months and absolutely love it. When I started it felt like I was melting my mind with all the possibilities. It still feels like that.

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rcbuse
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Post 28 Jun 2022

moofi wrote:
28 Jun 2022
What possibilities are you referring to?
rcbuse wrote:
28 Jun 2022
I've been using Bitwig with RRP v11 for the past 6 months and absolutely love it. When I started it felt like I was melting my mind with all the possibilities. It still feels like that.
1) It has "the grid', which is this modular like environment where you can design anything you can dream up device wise. So what used to take me days of coding up ideas in a player can sketched out in an evening.
2) It has this concept of universal modulation. So things like envelopes and LFOs can sit outside of the actual device. This frees a device to be very simple and focus on its main purpose, and not have to have to re-invent a modulation matrix and all the LFOs and whatnot every single time. This modulation can also be placed on VSTs like RRP, so I can put 50 more LFOs on maelstrom if I want. Those modulators are easy to turn into Reason CV.
3) I really like the sequencer setup, where some channels can be running from the standard arranger timeline, and other channels can be running from the clip launcher.
4) Love the browser and preset management / searching / smart collections. Love that I can save out a clip as a stand alone thing.
5) Per note expression support via MPE or VST3 Note Expressions
6) Love the new CLAP format and per voice modulation
7) Love their remote-like java interface for scripting everything. They expose everything. They just did this whole video about richie hawtin and his custom setup.
8) Their file format, although undocumented, was pretty straightforward to parse and write patch generators for.

I'm sure I'm forgetting things but that is off the top of my head.
BitwigModulation2.jpg
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Jac459
Posts: 481
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 28 Jun 2022

rcbuse wrote:
28 Jun 2022

1) It has "the grid', which is this modular like environment where you can design anything you can dream up device wise. So what used to take me days of coding up ideas in a player can sketched out in an evening.
2) It has this concept of universal modulation. So things like envelopes and LFOs can sit outside of the actual device. This frees a device to be very simple and focus on its main purpose, and not have to have to re-invent a modulation matrix and all the LFOs and whatnot every single time. This modulation can also be placed on VSTs like RRP, so I can put 50 more LFOs on maelstrom if I want. Those modulators are easy to turn into Reason CV.
3) I really like the sequencer setup, where some channels can be running from the standard arranger timeline, and other channels can be running from the clip launcher.
4) Love the browser and preset management / searching / smart collections. Love that I can save out a clip as a stand alone thing.
5) Per note expression support via MPE or VST3 Note Expressions
6) Love the new CLAP format and per voice modulation
7) Love their remote-like java interface for scripting everything. They expose everything. They just did this whole video about richie hawtin and his custom setup.

I'm sure I'm forgetting things but that is off the top of my head.
BitwigModulation2.jpg
Whaou! Thank you so so much for all these info.

Where can I find material to learn about bitwig, ideally on YouTube. Any good channel? I love venus theory but is there more basic tuto? I am starting from scratch here.

Yesterday I was able to play the reason rack in bitwig but I didn't not get how to separate the audio output, or midi in... I have a loooooOoot to learn.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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rcbuse
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Post 28 Jun 2022

Jac459 wrote:
28 Jun 2022

Whaou! Thank you so so much.

Where can I find material to learn about bitwig, initially youtuve. Any good chanel? I love venus theory but is there more basic tuto? I am starting from scratch here.

Yesterday I was able to play the reason rack in bitwig but I didn't not get how to separate the audio output, or midi in... I have a loooooOoot to learn.
Honestly Bitwig has one of the best manuals I've ever read. I just sat down and read it front to back with bitwig on the other half of the screen.

https://www.bitwig.com/userguide/latest ... ig_studio/

It covers 99.9% of what's in the program and is a pretty easy read.

I would also recommend skipping over "The Grid" until you have a firm grasp on the main program. The grid is a whole thing in itself.

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StephenHutchinson
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Post 28 Jun 2022

Jac459 wrote:
28 Jun 2022
Hi, trying to overcome the limitations of reason (90% of it being vst2 size issues and vst3 for me), I tried a few competitors with no luck (logic, reaper and live). Basically the general approach of these programs don't appeal to me.
No other DAW give me this kind of childish experimental pleasure like reason...

That is before I trialed bitwig yesterday.

Somehow I got stuck for hours playing around with the tool and integration with RRP.

So my question is: do some of you use bitwig with RRP? Is it a good experience for you? Do you see advantage versus using reason standalone?

Thanks in advance!
I was pretty much in the same boat as you, and after trying a multitude of DAWs, I came across Venus Theory's Bitwig YouTube videos, and was sold. I trialed it and then bought it and Reason works great in the DAW. It's so simple to hook up the MIDI out into Bitwig and being able to load effects on internal instruments and such. I haven't had a crash in the 1.5 years I've had Bitwig, and if internal plugins do crash occasionally, they just reload and the DAW doesn't go down. I can't say enough about this DAW. It's insanely great!

Here's some of Venus Theory's YouTube videos that will help you get into the intricacies of Bitwig:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ory+bitwig
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Jac459
Posts: 481
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 28 Jun 2022

StephenHutchinson wrote:
28 Jun 2022
Jac459 wrote:
28 Jun 2022
Hi, trying to overcome the limitations of reason (90% of it being vst2 size issues and vst3 for me), I tried a few competitors with no luck (logic, reaper and live). Basically the general approach of these programs don't appeal to me.
No other DAW give me this kind of childish experimental pleasure like reason...

That is before I trialed bitwig yesterday.

Somehow I got stuck for hours playing around with the tool and integration with RRP.

So my question is: do some of you use bitwig with RRP? Is it a good experience for you? Do you see advantage versus using reason standalone?

Thanks in advance!
I was pretty much in the same boat as you, and after trying a multitude of DAWs, I came across Venus Theory's Bitwig YouTube videos, and was sold. I trialed it and then bought it and Reason works great in the DAW. It's so simple to hook up the MIDI out into Bitwig and being able to load effects on internal instruments and such. I haven't had a crash in the 1.5 years I've had Bitwig, and if internal plugins do crash occasionally, they just reload and the DAW doesn't go down. I can't say enough about this DAW. It's insanely great!

Here's some of Venus Theory's YouTube videos that will help you get into the intricacies of Bitwig:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ory+bitwig

Thanks a lot! It is a whole new world of fun!!
I missed these venus theory's video thanks for pointing out. I will try and report.

Bitwig looks like next gen compare to ableton just looking at look and feel. I understand there is less instruments but we got reason for that!!
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

Jac459
Posts: 481
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 28 Jun 2022

rcbuse wrote:
28 Jun 2022
Jac459 wrote:
28 Jun 2022

Whaou! Thank you so so much.

Where can I find material to learn about bitwig, initially youtuve. Any good chanel? I love venus theory but is there more basic tuto? I am starting from scratch here.

Yesterday I was able to play the reason rack in bitwig but I didn't not get how to separate the audio output, or midi in... I have a loooooOoot to learn.
Honestly Bitwig has one of the best manuals I've ever read. I just sat down and read it front to back with bitwig on the other half of the screen.

https://www.bitwig.com/userguide/latest ... ig_studio/

It covers 99.9% of what's in the program and is a pretty easy read.

I would also recommend skipping over "The Grid" until you have a firm grasp on the main program. The grid is a whole thing in itself.

Thanks a lot, I will try the manual then. But also I am looking for means to learn while I am commuting, that's why I am also looking for video material. It is easier from phone.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

olive6741
Posts: 292
Joined: 11 May 2016

Post 29 Jun 2022

Polarity has good youtube content:

https://www.youtube.com/c/PolarityMusic

Jac459
Posts: 481
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 29 Jun 2022

olive6741 wrote:
29 Jun 2022
Polarity has good youtube content:

https://www.youtube.com/c/PolarityMusic
Great! Subscribed. I will check on my way back home. I live in Singapore so it is soon he he.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

electrofux
Posts: 816
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 29 Jun 2022

rcbuse wrote:
28 Jun 2022
moofi wrote:
28 Jun 2022
What possibilities are you referring to?


7) Love their remote-like java interface for scripting everything. They expose everything. They just did this whole video about richie hawtin and his custom setup.
The problem is that RRP does not expose everything to Bitwig. Maybe this changes with VST3.

Jac459
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Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 29 Jun 2022

electrofux wrote:
29 Jun 2022

The problem is that RRP does not expose everything to Bitwig. Maybe this changes with VST3.
Actually I am a bit discovering the limit of RRP :-(
Or maybe it is me not understanding.

First the UI is not anymore in high def. When I compare my rack in bitwig and in reason, it seems that in reason the rack is in way better definition.
Second and more importantly, I can't control easily the synths with my midi controller (I mean the knobs). If I open the remote control window of bitwig with other VSTs, I have directly 8 knobs rightly chosen (I guess 8 because my Akai has 8 knobs) and it just work. On RRP, for example if I try to map Zero Hybrid, it is just a nightmare. I can't even find the settings by using the search engine of bitwig and Zero has too many settings to just browse the list exported to bitwig... Am I doing something wrong ?
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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rcbuse
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Location: SR388

Post 29 Jun 2022

Jac459 wrote:
29 Jun 2022
electrofux wrote:
29 Jun 2022

The problem is that RRP does not expose everything to Bitwig. Maybe this changes with VST3.
Actually I am a bit discovering the limit of RRP :-(
Or maybe it is me not understanding.

First the UI is not anymore in high def. When I compare my rack in bitwig and in reason, it seems that in reason the rack is in way better definition.
Second and more importantly, I can't control easily the synths with my midi controller (I mean the knobs). If I open the remote control window of bitwig with other VSTs, I have directly 8 knobs rightly chosen (I guess 8 because my Akai has 8 knobs) and it just work. On RRP, for example if I try to map Zero Hybrid, it is just a nightmare. I can't even find the settings by using the search engine of bitwig and Zero has too many settings to just browse the list exported to bitwig... Am I doing something wrong ?
Whenever I need to map one of my knobs, i'll got into the user interface of the VST and touch/wiggle that parameter. Then bitwig will set that parameter to the "joker" knob as they call it. Its always the first knob above the list. Then I'll use the mappings browser panel (or right click on the joker knob) to perform the actual mapping to the joker knob.

I also perform the same action when I want to modulate a parameter or automate it. I always get it to show up on the joker knob. I don't even entertain the idea of text searching for the parameter.

I can't speak for the high-def part since I'm still on R11.
SubtractorFilterOnJokerKnob.jpg
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Jac459
Posts: 481
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Location: Singapore

Post 29 Jun 2022

rcbuse wrote:
29 Jun 2022


Whenever I need to map one of my knobs, i'll got into the user interface of the VST and touch/wiggle that parameter. Then bitwig will set that parameter to the "joker" knob as they call it. Its always the first knob above the list. Then I'll use the mappings browser panel (or right click on the joker knob) to perform the actual mapping to the joker knob.

I also perform the same action when I want to modulate a parameter or automate it. I always get it to show up on the joker knob. I don't even entertain the idea of text searching for the parameter.

I can't speak for the high-def part since I'm still on R11.

SubtractorFilterOnJokerKnob.jpg
OK, top! Joker knob is my solution...

Thank you so much...

As an exercise to learn/evaluate bitwig I started to convert a simple project of mine from reason to bitwig. The idea is to make sure I don't lose reason feature while moving. It is quite long and tedious but necessary 😊.
So far so good. I continue to be very impressed by the DAW. I understand the buzz around it...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

bangaio
Posts: 114
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 30 Jun 2022

I have to say that as impressive as Bitwig is (I have bought and sold it several times now!) I just can't gel with it. It is hard to put my finger on but it is essentially the behaviours. The platform is incredibly powerful and very modern however in other ways it is clunky as heck. I have been on Ableton Live since v1.5 and Logic for years and for me (of course!) they are just so much easier to use.

Not to knock what they have achieved with bitwig studio however and their pace of development is incredible.

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ksniod
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Post 30 Jun 2022

The only real gripe i have with this Bitwig/RRP combo is that i get looooong loading times for the RRP (getting "Plugin does not respond" when loading a song).
I mentioned it to Bitwig's support but they said it's probably a problem with the RRP.
I guess they're right, certainly linked to online authentification (my computer is authorized, though, and the longest loading times i get is when i have an RE in trial or in beta).

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rcbuse
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Post 30 Jun 2022

bangaio wrote:
30 Jun 2022
I have to say that as impressive as Bitwig is (I have bought and sold it several times now!) I just can't gel with it. It is hard to put my finger on but it is essentially the behaviours. The platform is incredibly powerful and very modern however in other ways it is clunky as heck. I have been on Ableton Live since v1.5 and Logic for years and for me (of course!) they are just so much easier to use.

Not to knock what they have achieved with bitwig studio however and their pace of development is incredible.
Interesting. I attempted to use Live several times over the years and felt the same way you did with bitwig. I could just never get into it. So I had been 95% Reason since version 3. It wasn't until I tried bitwig 4 that I was like, okay, yea, I get this.... Agreed about the development pace, uncanny amount of releases lately.

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rcbuse
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Post 30 Jun 2022

ksniod wrote:
30 Jun 2022
The only real gripe i have with this Bitwig/RRP combo is that i get looooong loading times for the RRP (getting "Plugin does not respond" when loading a song).
I mentioned it to Bitwig's support but they said it's probably a problem with the RRP.
I guess they're right, certainly linked to online authentification (my computer is authorized, though, and the longest loading times i get is when i have an RE in trial or in beta).
Haven't seen anything like that.. but I'm rocking R11 with the computer I'm running on authorized and no trials/betas.

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ksniod
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Post 30 Jun 2022

rcbuse wrote:
30 Jun 2022
ksniod wrote:
30 Jun 2022
The only real gripe i have with this Bitwig/RRP combo is that i get looooong loading times for the RRP (getting "Plugin does not respond" when loading a song).
I mentioned it to Bitwig's support but they said it's probably a problem with the RRP.
I guess they're right, certainly linked to online authentification (my computer is authorized, though, and the longest loading times i get is when i have an RE in trial or in beta).
Haven't seen anything like that.. but I'm rocking R11 with the computer I'm running on authorized and no trials/betas.
Well, i know i have an old MBP but still, it's by far the plugin with the longest loading times in Bitwig (followed by Reaktor which sometimes takes a long time to load too), even when no trials/betas (R11 and/or R12).
It's also quite long in Live, but not as much.

Robert
Posts: 17
Joined: 13 Oct 2017

Post 30 Jun 2022

Bitwig is a really great DAW, I've been using it for years and it has never crashed. This guy does a good job of explaining many of Bitwigs components in an easy to understand way:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 1OmYZ9w-WB

Jac459
Posts: 481
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 30 Jun 2022

ksniod wrote:
30 Jun 2022

Well, i know i have an old MBP but still, it's by far the plugin with the longest loading times in Bitwig (followed by Reaktor which sometimes takes a long time to load too), even when no trials/betas (R11 and/or R12).
It's also quite long in Live, but not as much.
I have the same issue of long time to load while the other VSTs are very quick. Also, closing the plugin window takes 1, 2 secondes when it is instant for other instruments.
My computer is quite powerful so I guess it is indeed licensing...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

Jac459
Posts: 481
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 30 Jun 2022

rcbuse wrote:
30 Jun 2022

Interesting. I attempted to use Live several times over the years and felt the same way you did with bitwig. I could just never get into it. So I had been 95% Reason since version 3. It wasn't until I tried bitwig 4 that I was like, okay, yea, I get this.... Agreed about the development pace, uncanny amount of releases lately.
I must be wired like you because I feel the same...
I really tried to like ableton because it is obviously a great DAW but no, I can't convince myself.
On the contrary, 5 min after installing Bitwig I knew I will spend more time to trial it...

I am still not 100% sure I will move to bitwig definitively though. I think I will really love it but I also love reason...
Actually even if bitwig convinces me, I still think using reason as a rack is meh... Loss in resolution (my laptop is 4k Oled so it is really obvious), long loading time, more complex workflow...
So it makes me hesitate. With bitwig I get a superb daw and access to VST3. But I lose the immediacy of reason, all the wiring automation... Bitwig come with a lot of superb synths but I don't see any advantages compare to the ones in reason, and I have to re-learn everything... So I am very torn...

I will anyway force myself to use bitwig for the full trial month (and there is a good discount during July) and if I manage to create decent music and have fun, I'll certainly do the jump...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

Jac459
Posts: 481
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 30 Jun 2022

Robert wrote:
30 Jun 2022
Bitwig is a really great DAW, I've been using it for years and it has never crashed. This guy does a good job of explaining many of Bitwigs components in an easy to understand way:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 1OmYZ9w-WB
Thanks, I will check 👍👍👍
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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xylyx
Posts: 227
Joined: 11 Feb 2015

Post 30 Jun 2022

Jac459 wrote:
30 Jun 2022

Actually even if bitwig convinces me, I still think using reason as a rack is meh... Loss in resolution (my laptop is 4k Oled so it is really obvious)
Not sure why you are getting a lower resolution with the plugin - when I checked the RRP in Bitwig, it looks as clear as it does with the standalone version.

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