If You Use the Rack Plug-In In Another Daw Now (Poll)

This forum is for discussing the Reason Rack Plugin, the version of the Reason rack that runs as a VST3, AU, AAX in other DAWs.

Even Though You Now Use the Reason Rack Plug-In In Another Daw Would You Still Upgrade

Poll ended at 12 Oct 2020

Only If There's Lots Of Improvements To the Workflow
13
33%
Only If The 1 or 2 Really Big Features I Desire Are Added
11
28%
Only If the RRP Has a Big Improvement Too
6
15%
Probably Not
4
10%
Undecided (Wait and See)
6
15%
 
Total votes: 40
User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 3692
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 12 Sep 2020

Hi All!

Does anyone think since the new CEO and plus the many countless feature requests they must get (not that requests make much difference really judging by the past), that the next couple of point updates and then Reason 12 March / April next year we'll see a serious focus on improving the core functionality of Reason and that they will really up their game? I think Reason could be on shaky ground without serious improvements.

Since the RRP was introduced and for me now using Reaper full time, I hardly ever open Reason. In fact I don't now really. As soon as I do now, I just think, man, it's years behind the competition and it feels clunky. It did before but even more so now. I also feel, without a real influx of big core workflow enhancements and streamlining (and I mean a good few enhancements) and a good few little 'make life easier' improvements, they won't entice me back now and I'm talking a good 30 improvements really. At the rate they go, that'll be Reason 13 point something lol!

I thought I'd include a poll anyway asking 'Even though you're using a different daw would you still upgrade when Reason 12 is here?'

Be interesting to hear people's thoughts. I feel it's make or break time. The RRP could have been a very smart move or could really harm Reasons userbase going forward.

2 votes here.

Please let us know what DAW you're using the RRP in too.

Me - REAPER!
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.14 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

User avatar
antic604
Posts: 307
Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post 12 Sep 2020

I don't need a lot to upgrade and go back to using Reason. High-res GUI and folders would do. Actually either of them would be sufficient :)

Now I'm on Bitwig, sometimes Studio One and - surprisingly for me - I don't really use RRP in them. For some reason it seems weird, as if I was cheating or something :D
MPC One // A4 Mk1 // OT Mk1 + Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 5 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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Billy
Posts: 534
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 12 Sep 2020

I would buy an upgrade in the blink of an eye if better midi support is added so that stuff like MiK Captain and Cthulhu worked as intended. But will also probably buy just because it's an upgrade to reason, however I have missed a few in the past as the upgrade didn't generate any interesting features.

Oh and I've tried it in Odesi but I don't get access to my full rack extensions, strange but has been like it since RRP release
:ignition: :reason: :refill: :re: :rebirth: :PUF_figure: :nektar: :mac: :EiEPro: :Alesis Mk2:

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Creativemind
Posts: 3692
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 12 Sep 2020

antic604 wrote:
12 Sep 2020
I don't need a lot to upgrade and go back to using Reason. High-res GUI and folders would do. Actually either of them would be sufficient :)

Now I'm on Bitwig, sometimes Studio One and - surprisingly for me - I don't really use RRP in them. For some reason it seems weird, as if I was cheating or something :D
No mighty Thor in Bitwig? 🤣
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.14 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Oquasec
Posts: 2820
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

Post 12 Sep 2020

im gonna be able to upgrade but Each version should maintain at least 9 differences.

jwd606
Posts: 69
Joined: 19 Sep 2017

Post 13 Sep 2020

On here recently one of the head-honchos mentioned that Propellerheads main interest was always in designing new instruments and effects. Which would play into the failings of the sequencer and work environment. Now the RRP gets the Reason instruments into other DAWs, but is a bit clunky in operation , I wouldn't be shocked if they offered the Reason instruments as a VST bundle in the future, i.e. like Europa was before.

User avatar
raymondh
Posts: 1360
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 13 Sep 2020

New DAW: Reaper for me too :)

I also wonder whether the RRP is the Props going back to their roots. It's always been about the sound devices and mangling for them.
It will be very interesting to see how much they invest in the sequencer moving forward.
Unfortunately being exposed to Reaper now means my list of must-haves has increased significantly for me to use the Reason Sequencer again - I didn't know what I was missing :)
Win 10 64-bit | :reason: 11 | Reaper | Scarlet 18i8 | M-Audio Code 61 | KRK VXT-6 | JX-8P | System-8 | D-05 | JP-08 | Sirin
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zoidkirb
Posts: 388
Joined: 18 Nov 2018
Location: Brisbane Australia

Post 13 Sep 2020

Haven't abandoned Reason entirely because the way I like to write sometimes I just need that particular workflow. But I am spending more time in Cubase and Live these days and almost always will load up at least one instance of RRP Lite.
Didn't buy 11 but I'll upgrade eventually to 12 to get the full RRP but also by that stage I'll be very likely to spend more time in the DAW itself with the coming HD makeover and a LOT more time with that and a new COMBINATOR. Ongoing sequencer improvements and a bit of general love for the rack will be the icing on the cake.
I bought into Reason after I owned those other DAWs and never got upset and it's shortcomings and just took it as it was.

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Creativemind
Posts: 3692
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 13 Sep 2020

jwd606 wrote:
13 Sep 2020
On here recently one of the head-honchos mentioned that Propellerheads main interest was always in designing new instruments and effects. Which would play into the failings of the sequencer and work environment. Now the RRP gets the Reason instruments into other DAWs, but is a bit clunky in operation , I wouldn't be shocked if they offered the Reason instruments as a VST bundle in the future, i.e. like Europa was before.
Ahhh good insights into Propellerheads agenda many years back. Figures then but also ties into something other people have said before, that Propellerhead / Reason Studio's don't use their product to finish tracks.

The RRP isn't clunky in Reaper. Not sure about other daw's. I haven't figured out how to get ReDrum or Kong routed into their own channels yet on the mixer (in Reaper.) That's a job for today.

Interesting thought on the VST side of things. I had an idea a few years ago when I was at uni, they should update Subtractor and make it available as a VST. I think (if it was advertised and e-mails sent out so they were aware) that Subtractor 2 would be snapped up by colleges and universities the world over as it is imo (and a tutor at college used to always say this too) Subtractor is the best soft synth to learn subtractive synthesis on and most colleges / universities left Reason behind 8-10yrs ago as it didn't keep up with the times. They all have Logic, Pro Tools and Ableton for live, sometime Cubase but yeah Subtractor would make a great vst or teaching subtractive synthesis on as It's so easily laid out and easy to follow / understand for beginners.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.14 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

loopeydoug
Posts: 72
Joined: 11 Oct 2018

Post 13 Sep 2020

Now that they actually have an official excuse to focus mainly on RE development, it seems foolish to think Reason DAW will see anything more than one significant feature update every two years or so.

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xylyx
Posts: 183
Joined: 11 Feb 2015

Post 13 Sep 2020

Moved to Bitwig, as it has the clip arranger and allows you to add multiple vsts and midi fx all on one track.

There would have to be a serious overhaul of Reason to make me come back, such as being able to use midi vst plugins, folder tracks (for the mixer too) and probably a clip launcher too. I doubt it will ever get the features I would need to make me come back, but the combination of RRP and Bitwig pretty much does all I'm likely to need.

deeplink
Posts: 115
Joined: 08 Jul 2020
Location: Dubai

Post 13 Sep 2020

I loaded up Live for the first time. It's incredible just looking at how clear everything is, like the font and how responsive the animation is. Also the effect section on a track is amazing. You view your VST and can load up decent reverb, eq, delay and compressor - all with great animation and they all fit in the bottom third of the screen. It just makes for fast and intuitive sound crafting.

I hope reason improve their GUI and manage their screen real estate a bit better - so much empty space within the devices and around the DAW.

At this point, unless something really changes with Reason, I'm going to persue Ableton and RRP.

And by really changes I mean a better combinator.

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willy_dinglefinger
Posts: 21
Joined: 18 Jun 2020
Location: Scotland

Post 14 Sep 2020

raymondh wrote:
13 Sep 2020
New DAW: Reaper for me too :)
Man for me it's the opposite: used Reaper for over a decade -> got Reason 10 Essentials some years ago to mess around with but did very little with -> upgraded to Reason 11 Suite this year purely so I could use the RRP in Reaper -> ended up switching to Reason completely.

Don't get me wrong - I still use Reaper for stuff like analysis or "mastering" or as a sample editor, but for composition and mixing I exclusively use Reason now.

It is great to see Reaper growing though. The release structure, the footprint, the support and just the whole ethos of Cockos is utterly class.

Anyway, this thread has me feeling like a weirdo :puf_smile:
Hypernormalise forum signatures :reason:

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antic604
Posts: 307
Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post 14 Sep 2020

loopeydoug wrote:
13 Sep 2020
Now that they actually have an official excuse to focus mainly on RE development, it seems foolish to think Reason DAW will see anything more than one significant feature update every two years or so.
That wouldn't be bad, since most DAWs get "big number" update every 2-3 years. The problem is what constitutes "significant" for Reason Studios, because all the nice workflow improvements + few new devices in 11.x were not it :)
MPC One // A4 Mk1 // OT Mk1 + Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 5 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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avasopht
Posts: 2105
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 14 Sep 2020

I've been using Reason in Live (but using less and less Reason).

What I keep noticing, however, is that for every gain I get from Live, I lose something of equivalent value in Reason.

With Live I get clips integrated with Ableton Push and the ability to manipulate samples with a hardware interface. But Push is incomplete. There are a few functions it does not handle in the best way, even though it's trivial to fix.

If I want a Drum pad layout for a VST I must group it and modify the zone, which requires the use of the mouse and some awkward scrolling. There's no reason why this could have been configurable from Push. They're severely underutilizing its features.

Other disappointments include a lack of integration with VSTs. Push has been out for a long while now. We should have some standard for VSTs to expose an interface for custom remote controllers for more seamless integration with hardware controllers.
---

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raymondh
Posts: 1360
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 14 Sep 2020

willy_dinglefinger wrote:
14 Sep 2020
raymondh wrote:
13 Sep 2020
New DAW: Reaper for me too :)
Man for me it's the opposite: used Reaper for over a decade -> got Reason 10 Essentials some years ago to mess around with but did very little with -> upgraded to Reason 11 Suite this year purely so I could use the RRP in Reaper -> ended up switching to Reason completely.

Don't get me wrong - I still use Reaper for stuff like analysis or "mastering" or as a sample editor, but for composition and mixing I exclusively use Reason now.

It is great to see Reaper growing though. The release structure, the footprint, the support and just the whole ethos of Cockos is utterly class.

Anyway, this thread has me feeling like a weirdo :puf_smile:
Interesting!
What attracted you to switching to Reason exclusively for composing?
Win 10 64-bit | :reason: 11 | Reaper | Scarlet 18i8 | M-Audio Code 61 | KRK VXT-6 | JX-8P | System-8 | D-05 | JP-08 | Sirin
www.soundcloud.com/raymondhayter

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willy_dinglefinger
Posts: 21
Joined: 18 Jun 2020
Location: Scotland

Post 15 Sep 2020

raymondh wrote:
14 Sep 2020
What attracted you to switching to Reason exclusively for composing?
Well all the instruments, devices and FX I have in Reason are better than any VSTs I own, plus Reason is mega stable and runs a lot better on my machine, so once I became familiar with things it just really started to grow on me. Also, because of the stability and extra firepower, I felt inclined to learn the different workflows and how to use the sequencer properly etc and it all just happened organically from there.

For instance, because of computing limitations, in Reaper I would have to minimise my track / VST count and would rely on lots and lots of automation and send tracks / send FX to make the music interesting. With Reason however, even though I don't really have the computing limitations anymore, this flexible approach to heavy automation and signal routing really amplifies the compositional process.

For what it's worth, I also love mixing with Reason's mixer and stock devices etc but that's a different box of frogs.
Hypernormalise forum signatures :reason:

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ShelLuser
Posts: 296
Joined: 25 Aug 2019

Post 14 Oct 2020

I'm a little late to the party (also missed the poll) but still would like to respond because I think it's a really interesting question.

In short, I'm probably not going to upgrade because I don't see the need anymore. If there are really significant updates then I might but, probably not. And I both like and dislike that idea to be honest.

I've always used Reason rewired into Live ever since Reason 4 and I really enjoyed it because of the major differences between these two. Reason more than often helped me to think "outside the box" so to speak because of its different workflow. Another thing: if you ever become familiar with using 2 sequencers at once then it's really hard to stop doing this.

Still, Reason took this 'away' from me. So... then I realized that another environment I had started to use, Native Instrument's Maschine, also provided a sequencer. Not as sophisticated, sure, but one which could be controlled mostly from the Maschine controller (fully when used stand alone, but if you're using it as a VST then it's bound to your DAW of course (think transport control and such)).

During this period I also discovered that rack extensions which were specifically made for Reason 11 were also easily usable in Reason 10.

So one could say that I somewhat "moved on" when it comes to sequencer usage from Reason to Maschine (with the full Komplete suite behind it) leaving me with the rack extension which I really came to enjoy. In my opinion some of the Komplete elements have a much better sound (especially when we're talking about orchestral setups) but neither Maschine/Komplete nor Live provides the extensiveness and flexibility which you get with Reason; think about some of the awesome players, the "rack routing" and of course synths like Thor, Europe, Malström and Complex. Or Pulveriser, Alligator, Neptune (!) and Synchronous (huge fan of this one).

MClass anyone? :cool:

All of that is why Reason is part of what I like to refer to as the "Big Trio": Live suite (my whole studio is centered around it), Reason (rack plugin) and of course Maschine with Komplete 13.

Seriously... the MIDI out device with the Scales & Chords and Dual Arpeggio players in sequence which output is then re-routed (using Live) to, say, Absynth 5.. leave the players to their default settings and use Absynth's "Kammersutra" preset. Not only will this create a really convincing sound. Grab the "Action" preset for Dual Arpeggio for something really nice sounding.

The sound of Komplete powered by the ingenuity of Reason... with the brilliance of Live behind you *. What's there not to like here?

* I know this is going to sound stupid but once that record button hits I often mess up in my playing. I try a practice again and I create the most brilliant sounds (or so I think! :D ) and then I hit record and for sure: out of key. Even though that's virtually impossible with the scales setting on both Push & scales & chords. Yah, enter Live's "capture MIDI" option: play without stress and capture your stuff afterwards. It's a life safer for me!

My point... Not being able to use Rewire made me focus my attention more on Native Instruments a bit more (it started with replacing my Akai MPD24 with the Maschine) and right now I don't see the need to upgrade Reason anymore.

Sequencer updates? I pretty much stopped using it. Older projects run on 10, newer on Maschine (more or less).
Rack extensions? If those for 11 can run in 10 I think it's safe to assume that those for 12 will run in 11.
New sounds? Although I really enjoy the Reason sounds I also have Komplete now. I'm not looking for new sounds anymore.
Rack update? Those would have to be really special... multi racks maybe? But it probably wouldn't do it for me anymore; the rack plugin also made me realize how much I had relied on a Combinator when I used Reason rewired into Live.

I really wonder how much the Rack plugin actually changed the landscape for Reason....


(I just noticed that I need to update my signature, lol! :puf_bigsmile:)
--- :reason:
Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push), Reason Rack Plugin and Maschine (+ the ultimate Komplete 13).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

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