Reason Rack plugin lackluster MIDI features

This forum is for discussing the Reason Rack Plugin, the version of the Reason rack that runs as a VST3, AU, AAX in other DAWs.
Ad0
Posts: 101
Joined: 13 Jun 2017

Post 06 Dec 2019



[*] No midi out
[*] No multiple MIDI in
[*] No MIDI export to DAW

Image

Is this planned at all?

outdatedstandard
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Joined: 04 Dec 2019

Post 06 Dec 2019

    Last edited by outdatedstandard on 09 Dec 2020, edited 1 time in total.

    NostraDAWmus
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    Post 06 Dec 2019

    you speak from my heart,- cannot say better !

    P.

    Ad0
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    Post 06 Dec 2019

    Hehe. I would love to upgrade but I see no point until that is in place. There's simply too little other features to make me wanna upgrade. If it is planned and will happen during version 11, I will upgrade at once.

    My plan is to use Reaper with Reason, but right now ReWire with 10 seems like the better option, since that's gone in 11 too.

    PhillipOrdonez
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    Post 06 Dec 2019

    Ad0 wrote:
    06 Dec 2019
    Hehe. I would love to upgrade but I see no point until that is in place. There's simply too little other features to make me wanna upgrade. If it is planned and will happen during version 11, I will upgrade at once.

    My plan is to use Reaper with Reason, but right now ReWire with 10 seems like the better option, since that's gone in 11 too.
    Someone on a thread here mentioned they learnt that it may come sooner than you think. So my guess is it will be in the next point update.

    Ad0
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    Joined: 13 Jun 2017

    Post 06 Dec 2019

    That's great news! But I'll believe it when I see it!

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    Boombastix
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    Post 06 Dec 2019

    PhillipOrdonez wrote:
    06 Dec 2019
    Ad0 wrote:
    06 Dec 2019
    Hehe. I would love to upgrade but I see no point until that is in place. There's simply too little other features to make me wanna upgrade. If it is planned and will happen during version 11, I will upgrade at once.

    My plan is to use Reaper with Reason, but right now ReWire with 10 seems like the better option, since that's gone in 11 too.
    Someone on a thread here mentioned they learnt that it may come sooner than you think. So my guess is it will be in the next point update.
    Yep, but we have yet to see the implementation of it. But I can record midi in a VST and drag it from there, oh wait, the Rack Plugin will not host VSTs either, case closed, for now... :roll: (insert brain fart emoji)
    Interestingly, I spent big bucks this BF, but zero $ in the Reason shop. They need to fix the Rack with Midi and VSTs, and money will come from my wallet...
    10% off at Waves with link: https://www.waves.com/r/6gh2b0
    Disclaimer - I get 10% as well.

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    Lempface
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    Post 07 Dec 2019

    I upgraded to suite but this is a huge missing piece. Could forgive it slightly if we could host VSTs in the rack but not being able to run my other instruments with the wonderful players is the suck.
    Reason 11 Suite | Bitwig Studio 3 | Native Instruments Komplete 13 Ultimate Collector's | Komplete Kontrol M32 | Maschine Mikro MK2 | Maschine Jam

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    dpcoffin
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    Joined: 23 Apr 2017

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    Agree with all, and waiting eagerly for both vst MIDI out AND Rack MIDI out. But it’s still easy to get MIDI out of the Reason and RE players. Just run them in Reason and put an External Instrument after them, routing to another DAW with a MIDI Loopback device. Was doing that with great success/pleasure before 11 was even announced, and it ain’t broke.

    Yonatan
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    Joined: 18 Jan 2015

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    I agree. Right now Reason Rack plugin is a nice way to use RE instruments and effects inside other DAWs, but when it comes to get the most out of the rack with players etc, one still need to use Reason as main DAW. My way of working is so dependent on the close interaction between rack and sequencer. That is why I am holding off. I asked myself what huge benefits current rack plugin really has, and the limited broken halfway workflow just cannot convince me yet.
    Either improved Rack pkugin, or real improvements to Reason main DAW, could convince me.

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    chimp_spanner
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    Post 07 Dec 2019

    I've made this point elsewhere but interested to get your opinions on how exactly this would work? The difference between Maschine and RRP is that Maschine actually records MIDI into clips, and then I guess when you click and drag it very quickly generates a MIDI file of a set length (the length of your scene or pattern) that you're then able to drop into your arranger.

    With Players in RRP, how do you get that information out of the plugin without first committing it to some kind of timeline or clip or part? Maybe this is something that could happen invisibly behind the scenes, without the need for any kind of arranger in the plugin itself but then the other issue is how does RRP know how long the clip is? I don't know anything about the VST standard, or if it allows the plugin to read things like the cycle range. I guess it can read locator position as that's how patterns are able to sync properly to the transport. So maybe...a way around this would be that in the plugin version, when you press pattern to track, a small dialogue opens up that says "how many bars". Enter it, click and drag and it generates a MIDI file of that length.

    I dunno, just thinking out loud. The main barrier to this I see at the moment is that RRP doesn't have a timeline, and everyone comparing it to other plugins seems to gloss over that fact. The MIDI has to be committed somewhere first, and then exported. Not translated directly from real-time generation into a MIDI file.

    As for MIDI out, I do think this would at least partially solve this problem. Even if you can't export MIDI directly you could arm a MIDI track and record so let's keep our fingers and toes crossed! That said I'm still like 99% Reason as my DAW so ya know..I just click pattern to track and I'm gravy :lol:

    Ad0
    Posts: 101
    Joined: 13 Jun 2017

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    chimp_spanner wrote:
    07 Dec 2019
    I've made this point elsewhere but interested to get your opinions on how exactly this would work? The difference between Maschine and RRP is that Maschine actually records MIDI into clips, and then I guess when you click and drag it very quickly generates a MIDI file of a set length (the length of your scene or pattern) that you're then able to drop into your arranger.

    With Players in RRP, how do you get that information out of the plugin without first committing it to some kind of timeline or clip or part? Maybe this is something that could happen invisibly behind the scenes, without the need for any kind of arranger in the plugin itself but then the other issue is how does RRP know how long the clip is? I don't know anything about the VST standard, or if it allows the plugin to read things like the cycle range. I guess it can read locator position as that's how patterns are able to sync properly to the transport. So maybe...a way around this would be that in the plugin version, when you press pattern to track, a small dialogue opens up that says "how many bars". Enter it, click and drag and it generates a MIDI file of that length.

    Maschine works differently than scales and chords since it's clips vs continuous / instant as you say.
    BUT Matrix has a defined pattern / clip. So that could be dragged / sent to track, at least in the key note as a default, and it's up to you to put it on the right note.
    Dr. Octorex has a defined pattern / clip for the loop data, so that also can be dragged to MIDI.

    When it comes to players like arpeggiators and scales+chords, you just record their MIDI output to the DAW as you would record yourself playing a keyboard. That also goes for Matrix really.


    That's why you need both MIDI out and drag+drop support.

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    zoidkirb
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    Post 07 Dec 2019

    When you send the midi to track in Reason daw, it takes a while already. If for whatever reason the rack vst can't have access to sequencer locators, then I suppose real time recording out of midi would be fine, just a longer wait time.

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    chimp_spanner
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    Post 07 Dec 2019

    Well matrix to midi out would be possible using CV Player Tap from Lectric Panda (I think). So that’s no problem for things like matrix, as16, psq, etc. If we get midi out then the only thing we can’t print to MIDI is rex.
    Last edited by chimp_spanner on 07 Dec 2019, edited 1 time in total.

    Ad0
    Posts: 101
    Joined: 13 Jun 2017

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    chimp_spanner wrote:
    07 Dec 2019
    Well matrix to midi out would be possible using CV Player Tap from Lectric Panda (I think). So that’s no problem for things like matrix, as16, pew, etc. If we get midi out then the only thing we can’t print to MIDI is rex.
    "Send to track" would mean "Send to MIDI" in the context of the plugin. There should be no need for 3rd party plugins to get this to work.

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    chimp_spanner
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    Post 07 Dec 2019

    Ad0 wrote:
    07 Dec 2019
    chimp_spanner wrote:
    07 Dec 2019
    Well matrix to midi out would be possible using CV Player Tap from Lectric Panda (I think). So that’s no problem for things like matrix, as16, pew, etc. If we get midi out then the only thing we can’t print to MIDI is rex.
    "Send to track" would mean "Send to MIDI" in the context of the plugin. There should be no need for 3rd party plugins to get this to work.
    I meant in the context of using a potential midi out device to send players and cv devices to the midi input of host midi tracks. Like I said I can’t imagine how an offline/non-real-time “send to track” would work without some kind of timeline in the plugin. Not that it’s impossible! I just can’t think of a way around it. Someone smarter than me probably can though :lol:

    Ad0
    Posts: 101
    Joined: 13 Jun 2017

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    chimp_spanner wrote:
    07 Dec 2019
    Ad0 wrote:
    07 Dec 2019


    "Send to track" would mean "Send to MIDI" in the context of the plugin. There should be no need for 3rd party plugins to get this to work.
    I meant in the context of using a potential midi out device to send players and cv devices to the midi input of host midi tracks. Like I said I can’t imagine how an offline/non-real-time “send to track” would work without some kind of timeline in the plugin. Not that it’s impossible! I just can’t think of a way around it. Someone smarter than me probably can though :lol:
    I thought send to track is essentially the same as outputting midi while recording it? :)
    outdatedstandard wrote:
    06 Dec 2019
    * No multiple audio in
    aaaaaaand not VST hosting aaaaand not VST3 hosting in the Reason DAW either.

    I mean come on, FL studio can function as a plugin, and numerous others, why not enable the support? did they code the VST host outside the container?

    ARNK
    Posts: 8
    Joined: 22 Jan 2015

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    Yep, exaclty what I was to vent about. Absurd. Appreciate the video but I don't see why this would be a plea that we have to make to Propellerheads, talk about serving a half-baked loaf of bread.

    ARNK
    Posts: 8
    Joined: 22 Jan 2015

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    Ad0 wrote:
    07 Dec 2019
    chimp_spanner wrote:
    07 Dec 2019
    Well matrix to midi out would be possible using CV Player Tap from Lectric Panda (I think). So that’s no problem for things like matrix, as16, pew, etc. If we get midi out then the only thing we can’t print to MIDI is rex.
    "Send to track" would mean "Send to MIDI" in the context of the plugin. There should be no need for 3rd party plugins to get this to work.
    Absolutely, how difficult could it be to send MIDI data to a utility from which we can copy/paste? Ughh, this really pisses me off.

    Ad0
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    Joined: 13 Jun 2017

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    Note: I didn't make the video :)

    ARNK
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    Joined: 22 Jan 2015

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    Ad0 wrote:
    07 Dec 2019
    Note: I didn't make the video :)
    Okay

    ARNK
    Posts: 8
    Joined: 22 Jan 2015

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    So what are y'all doing? It also appears to me the seperate channel outputs aren't working in my DAW but I'm testing that now.

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    chimp_spanner
    Posts: 2938
    Joined: 06 Mar 2015

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    ARNK wrote:
    07 Dec 2019
    So what are y'all doing? It also appears to me the seperate channel outputs aren't working in my DAW but I'm testing that now.
    What's your DAW? They definitely work here in Cubase Pro 10 and Studio One Pro 4 Pro. You need to untick the "To Main" LED at the top of the rack interface, and also make sure additional outputs are enabled in your host.

    ARNK
    Posts: 8
    Joined: 22 Jan 2015

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    I don't think MIDI but audio, and you can bounce to MIDI—maybe.


    NostraDAWmus
    Posts: 63
    Joined: 26 Jul 2019

    Post 07 Dec 2019

    I cannot believe all talk about MIDI-Out ...
    What´s up w/ MIDI-In ?

    Noone interested in multiple MIDI - In ports/ channels ?

    What´s such rack for ?
    Just only cascading RSN devices making it ONE multi-instrument using a Combinator ?

    What´s up when I want p.ex. several of Bitley´s "WBF R2(X)" combinator instruments in just only ONE RSN VST rack,- on individual MIDI channels, w/ different controllers assigned and on individual tracks in p.ex. Reaper (v6.0) ???
    Impossible !
    And why in the world doesn´t even THOR respond to MIDI Prg Changes in the rack, but does in (standalone) RSN 11 ???

    Compare to a NI Kontakt rack hosting "MULTI" = 16 individual MIDI channels w/ 16 instruments loaded before using a new instance.

    What did they smoke in Reason Studios when releasing this piece of shit VST3 rack ?
    Who needs a rack handling just only 1 MIDI Input channel,- in hardware or software ?

    I´m happy I didn´t pay for that crap because I upgraded to Reason 10 late enough and got that rack for free.
    Nonetheless and even for free,- for me, the rack is useless.
    Reason 10.x w/ Rewire is still better !

    P.

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