How would you prefer 3rd party RE licensing to be implemented for Reason+ subscribers?

This forum is for developers of Rack Extensions to discuss the RE SDK, share code, and offer tips to other developers.
User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 1411
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 29 Jan 2021

This is just another Reason Feature Request thread, but from developer point of view. Since Reason Studios have not yet made a decision on the subject, there is some space and time for speculations and expressing our opinions. Which licensing options you would like to be available to Reason+ subscribers in the Shop for 3rd party REs?
  1. trial
  2. full license purchase
  3. rent-to-own subscription:
    1. covering regular Reason users as well
    2. exclusive to Reason+ subscribers
  4. rent-only subscription for a smaller % than in rent-to-own
I don't make a poll of this, because that would not allow for negative voting. Please add other options as well. Don't know what to do about Refills tbh, there must be some other policy, I guess.

I'd go with 3b,4 or only 4.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

electrofux
Posts: 743
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 30 Jan 2021

If i was a dev i would want to have all options at once or the possibility to opt in for any of the option and there is not much that speaks against it. Furthermore i would want a free RRP so that people can buy my REs and use it independant of Reason/+.
It is astonishing that it isnt already like this.

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 1411
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 30 Jan 2021

electrofux wrote:
30 Jan 2021
If i was a dev i would want to have all options at once or the possibility to opt in for any of the option and there is not much that speaks against it. Furthermore i would want a free RRP so that people can buy my REs and use it independant of Reason/+.
It is astonishing that it isnt already like this.
Yes, trial would be good, just not for a full month. A week would be enough. Full license is good as well, but I just don't think it would be popular.
I also don't think RS will ever release a free and empty RRP.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

User avatar
jam-s
Posts: 1344
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 30 Jan 2021

A minimalistic and free RRP would be the best way for them to handle third party REs and to give the RE format any chance to compete with VST/AAX/AU.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

electrofux
Posts: 743
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 30 Jan 2021

jam-s wrote:
30 Jan 2021
A minimalistic and free RRP would be the best way for them to handle third party REs and to give the RE format any chance to compete with VST/AAX/AU.
Really wonder what the bad sides/risks are to it from a business perspective.

User avatar
jam-s
Posts: 1344
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 30 Jan 2021

electrofux wrote:
30 Jan 2021
jam-s wrote:
30 Jan 2021
A minimalistic and free RRP would be the best way for them to handle third party REs and to give the RE format any chance to compete with VST/AAX/AU.
Really wonder what the bad sides/risks are to it from a business perspective.
Only thing I can think of is that they have to pay for each copy that is using the Wibu Systems DRM (aka Authorizer), so giving it away for 0 might result in some financial burden. Still they could make the free version so that one could only use it after at least one paid RE has been purchased from the store, so that their share of that purchase would cover the cost for the DRM.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 8341
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 30 Jan 2021

jam-s wrote:
30 Jan 2021
A minimalistic and free RRP would be the best way for them to handle third party REs and to give the RE format any chance to compete with VST/AAX/AU.
Reason+ subscribers have access to the RRP though...

And outside of this topic, there has been Reason Lite offered for free in promotions like Plugin Boutique.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 3290
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 30 Jan 2021

joeyluck wrote:
30 Jan 2021
jam-s wrote:
30 Jan 2021
A minimalistic and free RRP would be the best way for them to handle third party REs and to give the RE format any chance to compete with VST/AAX/AU.
Reason+ subscribers have access to the RRP though...

And outside of this topic, there has been Reason Lite offered for free in promotions like Plugin Boutique.
you’re missing the point. a free RRP would mean they wouldn’t lose the ability to use REs they OWN if they cancel the R+ subscription.

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 8341
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 30 Jan 2021

guitfnky wrote:
30 Jan 2021
joeyluck wrote:
30 Jan 2021


Reason+ subscribers have access to the RRP though...

And outside of this topic, there has been Reason Lite offered for free in promotions like Plugin Boutique.
you’re missing the point. a free RRP would mean they wouldn’t lose the ability to use REs they OWN if they cancel the R+ subscription.
Sorry I wasn't following because it wasn't exactly on topic with what is being asked. But I get the idea now :thumbs_up:

I also think this thread is directed towards RE devs specifically? It states "from developer point of view" and it's in the RE dev discussion forum. Not saying the OP isn't open to all discussion, just pointing it out.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 3290
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 30 Jan 2021

joeyluck wrote:
30 Jan 2021
guitfnky wrote:
30 Jan 2021


you’re missing the point. a free RRP would mean they wouldn’t lose the ability to use REs they OWN if they cancel the R+ subscription.
Sorry I wasn't following because it wasn't exactly on topic with what is being asked. But I get the idea now :thumbs_up:

I also think this thread is directed towards RE devs specifically? It states "from developer point of view" and it's in the RE dev discussion forum. Not saying the OP isn't open to all discussion, just pointing it out.
cool, but 1: clarifying a misunderstanding shouldn't be a no-no just because someone isn't in the target audience of the thread...same answer could have come from a dev. and 2: I mean...are you a dev? :?

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 8341
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 30 Jan 2021

guitfnky wrote:
30 Jan 2021
joeyluck wrote:
30 Jan 2021


Sorry I wasn't following because it wasn't exactly on topic with what is being asked. But I get the idea now :thumbs_up:

I also think this thread is directed towards RE devs specifically? It states "from developer point of view" and it's in the RE dev discussion forum. Not saying the OP isn't open to all discussion, just pointing it out.
cool, but 1: clarifying a misunderstanding shouldn't be a no-no just because someone isn't in the target audience of the thread...same answer could have come from a dev. and 2: I mean...are you a dev? :?
Lol I'm not directing that at you, but at all of us. I think it's ok, just pointing it out as a reminder to anybody reading.

User avatar
pongasoft
RE Developer
Posts: 298
Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Location: Las Vegas

Post 31 Jan 2021

electrofux wrote:
30 Jan 2021
If i was a dev i would want to have all options at once or the possibility to opt in for any of the option and there is not much that speaks against it. Furthermore i would want a free RRP so that people can buy my REs and use it independant of Reason/+.
It is astonishing that it isnt already like this.
As I posted in the other thread I started about RS+, I think free (minimal) RRP would alleviate a lot of concerns for the devs:
- anybody could buy REs whether they own a license of Reason or subscribe to Reason+ => expanding the market for devs
- for Reason+ users, if they cancel their subs, they can still use their REs that they paid full money for

Yan

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 1411
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 31 Jan 2021

I would not argue against a free RRP, it would surely benefit us users and devs. I just don't see why Reason Studios would do that. Not much of a market there for RS. Existing RE users would get what they want for free, while those unaware of Reason would still buy VSTs. What they are doing now with Reason+ will at least expand their user base, in theory. They are offering an easy way for newcomers to get into and start making noise.

I don't mind discussing it here, yet it's a slightly different topic. That they enable REs in Reason+ is more likely than a free RRP.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

electrofux
Posts: 743
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 31 Jan 2021

orthodox wrote:
31 Jan 2021
I would not argue against a free RRP, it would surely benefit us users and devs. I just don't see why Reason Studios would do that. Not much of a market there for RS. Existing RE users would get what they want for free, while those unaware of Reason would still buy VSTs. What they are doing now with Reason+ will at least expand their user base, in theory. They are offering an easy way for newcomers to get into and start making noise.

I don't mind discussing it here, yet it's a slightly different topic. That they enable REs in Reason+ is more likely than a free RRP.
Existing users already got the Plugin!? So they font lose anything from them. And people who dont own Reason have to get Res to get any value out of it BUT they are in the Reason ecosystem.
pongasoft wrote:
31 Jan 2021
electrofux wrote:
30 Jan 2021
If i was a dev i would want to have all options at once or the possibility to opt in for any of the option and there is not much that speaks against it. Furthermore i would want a free RRP so that people can buy my REs and use it independant of Reason/+.
It is astonishing that it isnt already like this.
As I posted in the other thread I started about RS+, I think free (minimal) RRP would alleviate a lot of concerns for the devs:
- anybody could buy REs whether they own a license of Reason or subscribe to Reason+ => expanding the market for devs
- for Reason+ users, if they cancel their subs, they can still use their REs that they paid full money for

Yan
I think it could easily made into a win win win situation.

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 1411
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 31 Jan 2021

electrofux wrote:
31 Jan 2021
Existing users already got the Plugin!? So they font lose anything from them. And people who dont own Reason have to get Res to get any value out of it BUT they are in the Reason ecosystem.
...
I think it could easily made into a win win win situation.
Would they the RRP users still be paying for Reason upgrades? Where would RS get money? From the RE shop margin? That would unlikely boost the RE sales compared to now. So it's a win-win-lose situation.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

electrofux
Posts: 743
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 31 Jan 2021

orthodox wrote:
31 Jan 2021
electrofux wrote:
31 Jan 2021
Existing users already got the Plugin!? So they font lose anything from them. And people who dont own Reason have to get Res to get any value out of it BUT they are in the Reason ecosystem.
...
I think it could easily made into a win win win situation.
Would they the RRP users still be paying for Reason upgrades? Where would RS get money? From the RE shop margin? That would unlikely boost the RE sales compared to now. So it's a win-win-lose situation.
Yes RS would get money from the Re Shop. Dont know the figures now but it would add alot of users who would actually need to buy anythig from the shop to get any value out of the free Plugin. They dont pay for Reason updates but what updates on the Plugin are relevant to them anyways that makes them pay once they have the plugin? You either are a subscriber who gets everything or a upgrade paying perpetual. If you bought Reason and only use the Plugin (40%) you only get devices anyways. If you buy them with the upgrade (if it is worth it for a plugin user - last one wasnt) or via the RE shop doesnt matter. On what type of user would they lose out when giving it out free?

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 1411
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 31 Jan 2021

electrofux wrote:
31 Jan 2021
orthodox wrote:
31 Jan 2021


Would they the RRP users still be paying for Reason upgrades? Where would RS get money? From the RE shop margin? That would unlikely boost the RE sales compared to now. So it's a win-win-lose situation.
Yes RS would get money from the Re Shop. Dont know the figures now but it would add alot of users who would actually need to buy anythig from the shop to get any value out of the free Plugin. They dont pay for Reason updates but what updates on the Plugin are relevant to them anyways that makes them pay once they have the plugin? You either are a subscriber who gets everything or a upgrade paying perpetual. If you bought Reason and only use the Plugin (40%) you only get devices anyways. If you buy them with the upgrade (if it is worth it for a plugin user - last one wasnt) or via the RE shop doesnt matter. On what type of user would they lose out when giving it out free?
RRP users saving on a free RRP equals RS losing money, it's that simple. The only way RS might not lose it is if they bring in A LOT OF new users with that thing. Why would a Reason-unaware person get themselves a free RRP in the first place? Are REs more popular, more diverse, or having better performance than VSTs?
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

electrofux
Posts: 743
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 31 Jan 2021

orthodox wrote:
31 Jan 2021
electrofux wrote:
31 Jan 2021


Yes RS would get money from the Re Shop. Dont know the figures now but it would add alot of users who would actually need to buy anythig from the shop to get any value out of the free Plugin. They dont pay for Reason updates but what updates on the Plugin are relevant to them anyways that makes them pay once they have the plugin? You either are a subscriber who gets everything or a upgrade paying perpetual. If you bought Reason and only use the Plugin (40%) you only get devices anyways. If you buy them with the upgrade (if it is worth it for a plugin user - last one wasnt) or via the RE shop doesnt matter. On what type of user would they lose out when giving it out free?
RRP users saving on a free RRP equals RS losing money, it's that simple. The only way RS might not lose it is if they bring in A LOT OF new users with that thing. Why would a Reason-unaware person get themselves a free RRP in the first place? Are REs more popular, more diverse, or having better performance than VSTs?
So you have that guy who wants to have the RRP and he gets an empty one for free. Whats he going to do? He buys stuff, i mean he wants to use it. So he buys Antidote or Expanse or Friktion or what have you. Thats a plus in my book. The question wether he would have bought Reason if that offer was non existant is a hypothetical one and i am inclined to say that he would have never become a full Reason user if he is satisfied with the one synth he bought. The moment he gets the free plugin he is going to give money to Reasonstudios and most likely more over the time maybe even the full version (as you get a shitton of stuff to use in the RRP).

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 1411
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 31 Jan 2021

electrofux wrote:
31 Jan 2021
So you have that guy who wants to have the RRP and he gets an empty one for free. Whats he going to do? He buys stuff, i mean he wants to use it. So he buys Antidote or Expanse or Friktion or what have you. Thats a plus in my book. The question wether he would have bought Reason if that offer was non existant is a hypothetical one and i am inclined to say that he would have never become a full Reason user if he is satisfied with the one synth he bought. The moment he gets the free plugin he is going to give money to Reasonstudios and most likely more over the time maybe even the full version (as you get a shitton of stuff to use in the RRP).
Are those REs capable of winning a significant share on the oversaturated plugin market? Will RS just dump a great part of the income from their current user base for a dubious prospect of earning a much larger place on the plugin market? I wouldn't take the risk. I think, the first thing they need is further promotion of the Reason platform, just what they are doing with Reason+, at least not to lose the newcomers.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

electrofux
Posts: 743
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 01 Feb 2021

orthodox wrote:
31 Jan 2021
electrofux wrote:
31 Jan 2021
So you have that guy who wants to have the RRP and he gets an empty one for free. Whats he going to do? He buys stuff, i mean he wants to use it. So he buys Antidote or Expanse or Friktion or what have you. Thats a plus in my book. The question wether he would have bought Reason if that offer was non existant is a hypothetical one and i am inclined to say that he would have never become a full Reason user if he is satisfied with the one synth he bought. The moment he gets the free plugin he is going to give money to Reasonstudios and most likely more over the time maybe even the full version (as you get a shitton of stuff to use in the RRP).
Are those REs capable of winning a significant share on the oversaturated plugin market? Will RS just dump a great part of the income from their current user base for a dubious prospect of earning a much larger place on the plugin market? I wouldn't take the risk. I think, the first thing they need is further promotion of the Reason platform, just what they are doing with Reason+, at least not to lose the newcomers.
I dont know the figures of the different market shares but as i said a free empty Rack Plugin is only relevant for a subset of users because most users already own the plugin. Wether this yields a large part of their income and is not being (over-)compensated by free plugin users and the value this brings to the Platform by giving Re Developers opportunities is the question.

The users that sticked do Reason 10 and didnt buy the 11 update are most likely those hardcore users that have no interest in a plugin anyways and the rest of the update wasnt that good. I assume many of them got suite though last November as this was a good offer.

I also predict that HiRes will not get alot of them over to 12 too if the rest of the update are redundant devices and two lines of Workflow enhancements even if they dont get the Plugin free beforehand.

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests