Allow midi VSTs as players

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visheshl
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Post 09 Dec 2022

So it would seem as though allowing third party devices in the reason rack would mean lesser sales for devices made by reason studios, but that's not at all the case. In fact it makes Buying reason and spending a bunch of money on reason ecosystem a much more sensible and appealing choice.
Just like how opening up the reason sdk to Rack extension developers made reason all the more popular. Same with VST implementation, it didn't cause a dip in sales of reason made devices, in fact due to VSTs, more people felt it was a good decision to buy reason.
Similarly allowing MIDi VSTs in reason would also be a good move.

Also since MIDi VSTs are essentially getting midi data from their midi input, modifying/ processing it in some way and sending it to it's midi output.
They're essentially already working like reason player devices.
They could easily be allowed to be inserted in player stacks.

Also please allow VSTs both audio(as implemented in standalone) and midi(as players) in RRP, and you have my money for that upgrade.

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DaveyG
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Post 09 Dec 2022

visheshl wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2022
So it would seem as though allowing third party devices in the reason rack would mean lesser sales for devices made by reason studios, but that's not at all the case. In fact it makes Buying reason and spending a bunch of money on reason ecosystem a much more sensible and appealing choice.
Just like how opening up the reason sdk to Rack extension developers made reason all the more popular. Same with VST implementation, it didn't cause a dip in sales of reason made devices, in fact due to VSTs, more people felt it was a good decision to buy reason.
Similarly allowing MIDi VSTs in reason would also be a good move.

Also since MIDi VSTs are essentially getting midi data from their midi input, modifying/ processing it in some way and sending it to it's midi output.
They're essentially already working like reason player devices.
They could easily be allowed to be inserted in player stacks.

Also please allow VSTs both audio(as implemented in standalone) and midi(as players) in RRP, and you have my money for that upgrade.
It's not a case of RS "not allowing" MIDI VSTs. It's just that they have never implemented support for VSTs that output MIDI. I think it's not an easy task to add such support but it could be done if RS wanted it. I think it would be an asset to the program and, yes, I would see it as being some sort of player that hosts it but only RS can know the problems and pitfalls with that.

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visheshl
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Post 09 Dec 2022

Well technically, they've got the most difficult part working already. Which was to get vsts working inside reason.
Since they can do that already it's a matter of whether to connect the midi inputs and outputs or the audio inputs and outputs....i could be wrong.
But think about something like kushview elements...it can load vsts, and it shows all the midi and audio io that a vst has. Then the user can connect the io.

Similarly when RS got the vst wrapping working, I'm pretty sure reason can internally already see all the inputs and outputs a plugin has.

Then it is perhaps just a matter of connecting the io.
So if reason allows, the user marks a certain vst in the browser as a midi vst/instrument vst or effect vst
(instrument- midi in- audio out, effect - audio in-audio out, midi vst - midi in-midi out)

so reason can know whether to connect midi io or audio io of the plugin.
And when he drops a plugin marked as midi plugin into the player stack, reason automatically connects midi in of the vst to the output coming from the device above in the stack, and connects the midi out of the vst to the midi in of the device below in the stack.

Again i could be wrong, but i think, that's how it probably works ..maybe midi vst implementation could require minor tweaks, but the major part that was to get vsts working in reason has already been accomplished...is all im saying.

Another reason i think that it is a matter of allowing rather than an issue of implementation is that even though vsts work in Reason standalone but they don't in RRP.

Mataya
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Joined: 03 May 2019

Post 09 Dec 2022

This is actually my biggest issue at the moment with Reason. I know we have excellent players and different sequencing options. But a few days ago I just tired sending midi out from beat scholar with it's new randomizing features into XLN XO and my God, what a fun day. I used stupid Nuendo for that. And now I think Nuendo is more fun then Reason and that's not a good thing for Reason chiefs.
See Reason chiefs, we want more fun like that and you need to give us that, because you need money.

M

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 09 Dec 2022

visheshl wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2022
Since they can do that already it's a matter of whether to connect the midi inputs and outputs or the audio inputs and outputs....i could be wrong.
Whenever someone thinks that something is 'simple' in software, they are probably wrong. Software is the most complex technology existing. Software stopped being simple about two weeks after the very first lines of code were written. If developing software was easy, we wouldn't have any bugs :puf_wink:

I'm a bit puzzled though by your messages on the forum (in this context) because some of your messages show you do have quite a bit of knowledge and insights into software development, and then you post a message like this as if you have no idea at all what software development is about :?:
----
Most users think the reason their requests aren't being met, is because some developer somewhere in a cubical refuses to waive its magic wand.

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visheshl
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Post 09 Dec 2022

Thats why I said i could be wrong... But how difficult it really is, is a matter of reality only for the programmers and a matter of assumption for users like me...anyway the thing is It would make me joyful to see regular vsts in my RRP, and Midi vsts as players in my RRP.
My apology if i came across as Mr know it all, it wasn't intended.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 09 Dec 2022

visheshl wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2022
But how difficult it really is, is a matter of reality only for the programmers and a matter of assumption for users like me.
Actually, for anyone who has any insights in software complexity (I regarded you in that group so far), looking at the level of functional complexity in an application like Reason, can easily infer that implementing anything that has to interact with the existing functional complexity is far from simple.
----
Most users think the reason their requests aren't being met, is because some developer somewhere in a cubical refuses to waive its magic wand.

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visheshl
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Post 09 Dec 2022

Well i am definitely not discounting building a vst host inside a daw as easy by any means.
All I'm saying is that as per my assumption that task has already been accomplished.
What is required is modification to allow using midi vsts as player devices, which also I'm not saying is easy, but i think the most complex part was to build the vst host inside reason from scratch.
anyway I agree with you that it indeed is a difficult task.
Let's leave it at that.
Have a good day. πŸ‘

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 09 Dec 2022

visheshl wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2022
Let's leave it at that.
Have a good day. πŸ‘
:thumbup:
----
Most users think the reason their requests aren't being met, is because some developer somewhere in a cubical refuses to waive its magic wand.

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jam-s
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Post 09 Dec 2022

visheshl wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2022
Well i am definitely not discounting building a vst host inside a daw as easy by any means.
All I'm saying is that as per my assumption that task has already been accomplished.
What is required is modification to allow using midi vsts as player devices, which also I'm not saying is easy, but i think the most complex part was to build the vst host inside reason from scratch.
anyway I agree with you that it indeed is a difficult task.
Let's leave it at that.
Have a good day. πŸ‘
Imho the most difficult thing about supporting Midi coming from VSTs is that Reason still has not implemented virtual MIDI cables. Extrapolating from the way they chose to implement players and also lifted the requirement for RE devs to keep a certain area on the back of a device reserved, I suspect that they deliberately chose not to implement virtual MIDI cables ever and thus this horse is pretty dead now.
So instead of simply adding a virtual MIDI out jack on the VST container and connecting it to the VST they now would have to create a MIDI-VST container as a player device. to get this done without much code duplication could be a little troublesome depending on how exactly their software architecture is modularised/implemented.

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visheshl
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Post 09 Dec 2022

I never even talked about virtual midi cables.
Since my opening post I'm talking about midi vsts as player devices.
let's forget the whole thing about how easy or difficult it is.
Point is I'd like to load up vsts as players inside Reason and RRP. I'm hoping there are others who would like it too.

If anyone else would like to support this feature request, please do so.

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visheshl
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Post 09 Dec 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2022
visheshl wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2022
But how difficult it really is, is a matter of reality only for the programmers and a matter of assumption for users like me.
Actually, for anyone who has any insights in software complexity (I regarded you in that group so far), looking at the level of functional complexity in an application like Reason, can easily infer that implementing anything that has to interact with the existing functional complexity is far from simple.
Haha love your footnote πŸ˜‚
Well yeah Mr coder in a cubicle somewhere in Bangalore. Kindly waave your magic wand....or type a special sequence of characters on your keyboard that will allow me to load vst players in my reason rack.
πŸ˜‰

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Billy+
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Post 09 Dec 2022

I've been waiting for midi support since R9.5 and decided that I wouldn't buy another version of Reason until it happened - currently enjoying live suite 11 with full vst implementation thanks to RRP now I can really wait for something worth the upgrade price ;)
Freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo ;)

Reason V1 -- V11 suite, now I'm enjoying Live 11 suite and using Reason as a plugin RRPv11
R12 just still isn't worth it..... #justbuylive #sequencerfeatues #fixthebugs #aplanisnotapromis

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huggermugger
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Post 09 Dec 2022

Logic's MIDI FX gives me all the fun and magic of Reason's Players plus MIDI out from VSTs (AUs). Best of both worlds. No need to wait for years while Props contemplates VST3 or MIDI Out or workflow or video or markers or track folders or etc etc etc.

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Billy+
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Post 09 Dec 2022

huggermugger wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2022
Logic's MIDI FX gives me all the fun and magic of Reason's Players plus MIDI out from VSTs (AUs). Best of both worlds. No need to wait for years while Props contemplates VST3 or MIDI Out or workflow or video or markers or track folders or etc etc etc.
Yeah I wished I had brought into logic when I first went Apple, unfortunately I truly believed that Reason would see sense and I wouldn't need another daw but the years have passed and R11 / R12 convinced me that they just won't do the decent thing so I hedged my bets and went with the only real multi platform option as I didn't want to be locked in again.

Hint hint...
Freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo ;)

Reason V1 -- V11 suite, now I'm enjoying Live 11 suite and using Reason as a plugin RRPv11
R12 just still isn't worth it..... #justbuylive #sequencerfeatues #fixthebugs #aplanisnotapromis

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Billy+
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Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 09 Dec 2022

Visheshi it looks like your quote to me had been removed........

PM me if you prefer a direct interaction ;)
Freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo ;)

Reason V1 -- V11 suite, now I'm enjoying Live 11 suite and using Reason as a plugin RRPv11
R12 just still isn't worth it..... #justbuylive #sequencerfeatues #fixthebugs #aplanisnotapromis

Fusion
Posts: 115
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Location: UK

Post 11 Dec 2022

Would love to see this or even just midi support for VST

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