A built in Asio4All driver

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Re8et
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Post 13 Aug 2021

It just happen that playing with multiple usb audio peripherals/synths
it's mandatory to get Asio4All working on your Pc/Mac not sure of Mac tho...
So my question is.. Is it possible to include a multi engine sound drivers mangler/arranger
similar to what Asio4All does in Reason so we could hope it could be improved in its own shell
without assuming Asio4All would do the job right for us... basically cleaning bugs that
MIGHT be related with the Reason environment and such... so...
especially concerning the midi through usb part, where there's definitely proprietary stuff going on... Asio4All might not be enough...
What'd ya think about that??

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miyaru
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Post 13 Aug 2021

I never use ASIO4ALL. I stick to my Focusrite drivers, which work more than fine. If I need more inputs/outputs, I can add another 8 I/O's using an ADAT expansion form Focusrite........
Greetings from Miyaru.
Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, ESI M4U eX, Reason12, Live Suit 10, Push2, Presonus Eris E8 and Monitor Station V2, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Yamaha RM1x :thumbup:

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guitfnky
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Post 13 Aug 2021

Focusrite doesn't play nice with ASIO4ALL anyway—they warn not to use that as your driver. I’ve experienced it first hand and it’s not pretty. 😅
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Billy+
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Post 13 Aug 2021

I think the developer at RS has enough to do without adding to the todo list.....
Remember this - freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo.

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avasopht
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Post 13 Aug 2021

Not needed.

Asio4all works by interfacing with WDM/KS (which bypasses the Windows mixer and its additional 30ms delay) and then supplies an ASIO driver that can be used by DAWs.

Any DAW can freely interface directly with WDM/KS and completely eliminate the need for Asio4all.

It shouldn't require much work at all. You can look at the open-source RTAudio code for an idea of what it involves.

But, ASIO is an interface that the audio interface can provide a specialized driver for.

WaveRT is Microsoft's alternative to ASIO.

No need to reinvent the wheel. ASIO is where it's at.
---

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Re8et
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Post 14 Aug 2021

avasopht wrote:
13 Aug 2021
Not needed.

Asio4all works by interfacing with WDM/KS (which bypasses the Windows mixer and its additional 30ms delay) and then supplies an ASIO driver that can be used by DAWs.

Any DAW can freely interface directly with WDM/KS and completely eliminate the need for Asio4all.

It shouldn't require much work at all. You can look at the open-source RTAudio code for an idea of what it involves.

But, ASIO is an interface that the audio interface can provide a specialized driver for.

WaveRT is Microsoft's alternative to ASIO.

No need to reinvent the wheel. ASIO is where it's at.
Exactly!
No need to re-invent the wheel!
But Having RS to be able to use multiple input audio cards/usb audio intefaces
it's not possible ATm without using Asio4All...

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Re8et
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Post 14 Aug 2021

Billy+ wrote:
13 Aug 2021
I think the developer at RS has enough to do without adding to the todo list.....
Yes, and getting feats that are already present in others Daws, like Ableton can do this, or to select
multiple available usb audio cards/peripherals should be on their TODO list as well...

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Re8et
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Post 14 Aug 2021

miyaru wrote:
13 Aug 2021
I never use ASIO4ALL. I stick to my Focusrite drivers, which work more than fine. If I need more inputs/outputs, I can add another 8 I/O's using an ADAT expansion form Focusrite........
You don't get it: It's not about more I/O, it's about how the music industry is moving these days, making synths that works as audio cards, and stream audio and midi through usb.
Few example are: Allen and Heath Mixers
All ROland Boutiques, and mixers also,
OP-1 was the last entry to the party.

From here on it's going to be more and more of these usb audio cards/synths/mixers more and more. It's the future!

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miyaru
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Post 14 Aug 2021

I do get it, but don't need it, my old Korg N1 and R3 don't do audio over USB.......

I still use a MIDI interface from ESI - the M4ex and audio thru my Focusrite. Also my old and sometimes used Yamaha RM1x doesn't use USB (but floppy disks LOL).

The ASIO protocol could change to aggregate device though..... But for now I do not need it!
Greetings from Miyaru.
Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, ESI M4U eX, Reason12, Live Suit 10, Push2, Presonus Eris E8 and Monitor Station V2, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Yamaha RM1x :thumbup:

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Billy+
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Post 14 Aug 2021

Re8et wrote:
14 Aug 2021
Billy+ wrote:
13 Aug 2021
I think the developer at RS has enough to do without adding to the todo list.....
Yes, and getting feats that are already present in others Daws, like Ableton can do this, or to select
multiple available usb audio cards/peripherals should be on their TODO list as well...
Honestly I don't use such a setup and don't really see/have any need to, if I need more inputs I would get another device that has the inputs, macOS already has a feature that allows for arrogated devices so adding such a feature to Reason would be pointless.

I've never used asio4all as most oem drivers are far superior, I have the option to use core audio with my current device but it only allows for 16bit export however if I use the device driver I can export at 24bit.

The only downside is when the device manufacturers decide to stop driver development which mine has and that has left me needing to choose a new device or not updating my os which is a problem as Reason has bumped their system requirements but as I'm not that impressed with the features of 12 I'm in no hurry to upgrade or buy another device.
Remember this - freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo.

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QVprod
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Post 14 Aug 2021

Mac user here. Just about everything uses Core audio often times not needing a driver at all. Honestly though, aggregating devices is not as great as it seems. There’s occasional glitches that come with it as well as additional latency sometimes. I understand the occasional times where you want different input/output devices but often than not, it’s been more trouble than it’s worth for me.

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Re8et
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Post 16 Aug 2021

QVprod wrote:
14 Aug 2021
Mac user here. Just about everything uses Core audio often times not needing a driver at all. Honestly though, aggregating devices is not as great as it seems. There’s occasional glitches that come with it as well as additional latency sometimes. I understand the occasional times where you want different input/output devices but often than not, it’s been more trouble than it’s worth for me.
I agree. My first setup when I got these Rolands boutiques was all midi connections, and monitor extrenally through Ultralite, to minimize latency, which comes at 15ms min and has to be addressed individually. No such latency happens with analog gears as Noise engineeruing 0-coast, or even the new Behringer 2600, which seems to be tight on the clock.
Op-1 same, few latency but it already had midi to be trnslated to midi usb, and then apply latency correction in RS. Old school stuff.
The usb-do-it-all solution however I never imagined it could be such a pain. Even only one gear, it shows all the latencies and freezing problems, and the sudden crash, only with the
Polystep RE sequencer player, only when driving ine of these usb-Native Roland devices. OP-1 works much better, seems drivers are well more optimized.
I can go back to the old-school safe route, but when you get devices, such as OP-1, that has ONLY one usb 2.0 connection... I have no other choices than goes through the troubles...
And there's a lot... :shock: It sucks because one would like to use these gears in a live environment... My idea was to bring one or two boutiques and a midi key to my band jams, but It's impossible to stay on time... I hoped usb could be faster than midi... and reduce the latency to ZERO... but it seems impossible...

it boggles me that with all the additional bandwith and processor power we have these days, the performance is worse tha late '80's '90's gears. And Daws cant do anything to address delay compensations. you must do it manually in post-production....

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Re8et
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Post 16 Aug 2021

miyaru wrote:
14 Aug 2021
I do get it, but don't need it, my old Korg N1 and R3 don't do audio over USB.......

I still use a MIDI interface from ESI - the M4ex and audio thru my Focusrite. Also my old and sometimes used Yamaha RM1x doesn't use USB (but floppy disks LOL).

The ASIO protocol could change to aggregate device though..... But for now I do not need it!
You wise lucky chap! I always wanted the JP-8000 and Sh-01, so I took the risk... me fool!!

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Re8et
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Post 23 Oct 2021

I posted a thread on General, to better explain my issues with the current Reason Audio card management and preferences, that is
in direct connection with this feature thread.

Reason 11 Usb Midi Latency issue:
I'm experiencing massive midi latency throughput from Reason to all the external usb devices connected.
All usb devices are connected to my pc through an active-powered high end usb multiplier port rated for up to 2A per usb port and USB3.0 connection to pc.
All usb devices are usb 2.0...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7525361

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Re8et
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Post 23 Oct 2021

QVprod wrote:
14 Aug 2021
Mac user here. Just about everything uses Core audio often times not needing a driver at all. Honestly though, aggregating devices is not as great as it seems. There’s occasional glitches that come with it as well as additional latency sometimes. I understand the occasional times where you want different input/output devices but often than not, it’s been more trouble than it’s worth for me.
Sure, but some like the OP-1 has no other options than usb-midi, and in the future usb audio-midi devices are just going to increase...
It would be a future proof design if this would have been taken into care..

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Re8et
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Post 23 Oct 2021

miyaru wrote:
14 Aug 2021
I do get it, but don't need it, my old Korg N1 and R3 don't do audio over USB.......

I still use a MIDI interface from ESI - the M4ex and audio thru my Focusrite. Also my old and sometimes used Yamaha RM1x doesn't use USB (but floppy disks LOL).

The ASIO protocol could change to aggregate device though..... But for now I do not need it!
Take a look at my other thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7525361&p=581511#p581511
I do parallel audio, I don't really need audio-usb but, I do need usb-midi (only OP-1 actually) and the latency-delay it's there...
I'm not sure Asio4all or similar aggregate device for win users built into RSN would solve the midi-usb latency issues.
Audio delays is because of midi latency. No delay b/w usb and external mixer audio.

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QVprod
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Post 23 Oct 2021

Re8et wrote:
23 Oct 2021
QVprod wrote:
14 Aug 2021
Mac user here. Just about everything uses Core audio often times not needing a driver at all. Honestly though, aggregating devices is not as great as it seems. There’s occasional glitches that come with it as well as additional latency sometimes. I understand the occasional times where you want different input/output devices but often than not, it’s been more trouble than it’s worth for me.
Sure, but some like the OP-1 has no other options than usb-midi, and in the future usb audio-midi devices are just going to increase...
It would be a future proof design if this would have been taken into care..
Reading through your setup, there’s some misunderstandings. Latency doesn’t come from usb midi. Also Asio4all only affects audio. Your latency issues in your video are because your buffer is set very high. The higher your buffer (samples) the higher your latency. The clocking issues come by nature of you using multiple audio drivers with Asio4all. If you want to use multiple hardware synths in Reason it would be better to have a separate multichannel interface to record them with or a at least a mixer with a built in audio interface to record one at a time rather than trying to use the built in usb audio of all of those devices function. Hardware devices will always have physical audio outputs irregardless of usb audio.

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