Build Thor 2 on the Algoritm platform

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to Reason Studios, but you can still discuss them here.
User avatar
fieldframe
Posts: 933
Joined: 19 Apr 2016

Post 03 Mar 2021

I was reading a comment by popular patch creator Data Broth about how Algoritm seems like it could be the beginning of a larger system, when it hit me: That larger system would have a lot in common with Thor.

When you look at the two synths side by side, the similarities are hard to miss: Interchangeable modules of about the same size, following a polyphonic signal path. Algoritm's modules are freely routable via the smartly considered overview box, while Thor's are hardwired (with a few alternate audio routes possible via the mod matrix). The opportunity is obvious: Take Thor's architecture, and reconstruct it in Algoritm's module grid.

From a product management perspective, the biggest problem with this would be retaining Algoritm's differentiation. Steve Jobs famously said companies shouldn't be afraid to cannibalize their own products, but in this case, I don't think building Thor 2 on top of Algoritm has to make Algoritm redundant. There are plenty of FM-specific features in Algoritm that a Thor successor doesn't really need, like the operator macro controls or DX-style per-operator envelopes, and omitting these makes way for more Thor-style features.

Add some new oscillators, new filters, new effects, and you've got a tentpole feature for a future version of Reason.
The Iron Law of Reason forums: All topics eventually turn into feature request threads; the only difference is how many posts it takes.

Looking for UI design? DM me for a portfolio.

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 1985
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 03 Mar 2021

I'm glad that Reason hasn't updated their synths but instead have chosen to create new devices.

I don't think we need a Thor 2 but Algorithm was an excellent idea much better than doing a RX7 to replace the PX7 for instance, much the same could be said about monotone instead of Subtractor 2.

What would be cool would be having all the modules from the current crop of drum machines as standalone RE's including kongs umpf club and retro..

chaosroyale
Posts: 604
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 07 Mar 2021

Monotone is a low-effort basic synth that has absolutely nothing in common with the excellent Subtractor, and I don't know why people keep comparing them. They couldn't be more different, apart from being "traditional subtractive synths".

Billy+ wrote:
03 Mar 2021
I'm glad that Reason hasn't updated their synths but instead have chosen to create new devices.

I don't think we need a Thor 2 but Algorithm was an excellent idea much better than doing a RX7 to replace the PX7 for instance, much the same could be said about monotone instead of Subtractor 2.

What would be cool would be having all the modules from the current crop of drum machines as standalone RE's including kongs umpf club and retro..

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 1985
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 07 Mar 2021

chaosroyale wrote:
07 Mar 2021
Monotone is a low-effort basic synth that has absolutely nothing in common with the excellent Subtractor, and I don't know why people keep comparing them. They couldn't be more different, apart from being "traditional subtractive synths".

Billy+ wrote:
03 Mar 2021
I'm glad that Reason hasn't updated their synths but instead have chosen to create new devices.

I don't think we need a Thor 2 but Algorithm was an excellent idea much better than doing a RX7 to replace the PX7 for instance, much the same could be said about monotone instead of Subtractor 2.

What would be cool would be having all the modules from the current crop of drum machines as standalone RE's including kongs umpf club and retro..
That's the point, they didn't make a V2 it's not a comparison it's a difference way.

chaosroyale
Posts: 604
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 07 Mar 2021

Well, "Thor" is dead, and it's pretty obvious none of the old Reason Synths are ever going to be updated, but if you mean Reason Studios could possibly design a new modular synth using a similar UI to Algoritm, yeah they probably could.

Maybe give it 6 swap-able modules with more osc/filter/warper/divider/shaper types, and a much more comprehensive MSEG and mod matrix. Could be good. They might not want to compete with "complex-1", though. Assuming it had wavetable oscs, it would also render Europa pretty redundant. (Europa currently fills the niche of "really easy to use, basic WT synth". A new synth with WT and a fast simple GUI like Algoritm would cover that and more).

The main reason they probably won't do it is that a really good hi-end semi-modular would have to include FM, but then how would they sell Algoritm to their customers?? So I expect most future synths from RS will focus on only 1 thing.
fieldframe wrote:
03 Mar 2021
I was reading a comment by popular patch creator Data Broth about how Algoritm seems like it could be the beginning of a larger system, when it hit me: That larger system would have a lot in common with Thor.

User avatar
tronam
Posts: 390
Joined: 04 Mar 2015

Post 07 Mar 2021

Beyond the high resolution refresh, I'd be happy if they just dedicated a few more CPU cycles to oversampling on all of the old synths. They did something like this in the old days with NN-19 and the "high quality interpolation" button, or the improved EQ on the 14:2 mixer.

User avatar
fieldframe
Posts: 933
Joined: 19 Apr 2016

Post 08 Mar 2021

tronam wrote:
07 Mar 2021
Beyond the high resolution refresh, I'd be happy if they just dedicated a few more CPU cycles to oversampling on all of the old synths. They did something like this in the old days with NN-19 and the "high quality interpolation" button, or the improved EQ on the 14:2 mixer.
My guess for why the old devices are basically set in stone is that the code for them is more or less impenetrable by modern developers. Imagine thousands of lines of C++ with no modern frameworks, none of the standardized architecture from Rack Extensions, just pure, tightly-optimized code written by Peter Jubel 1-2 decades ago.

One thing modern developers take for granted is the separation of UI code and underlying logic (or DSP in this case). I wouldn't be surprised if it's all jammed together in devices like Subtractor or Malstrom.

This is why I wonder how deeply Reason Studios had to dig into the old devices for the hiDPI update – and if they're having to refactor all that code because of how closely the UI code was entwined with the DSP code. I still think there's a narrow possibility that they're actually remaking most of the old devices as REs for Reason 12, simply because it was the only way.

Anyway, Algoritm wasn't PX7 2, but more of a spiritual successor. I don't think a Thor-like, Algoritm-format synth would necessarily be Thor 2 either, but also more of a spiritual successor.
The Iron Law of Reason forums: All topics eventually turn into feature request threads; the only difference is how many posts it takes.

Looking for UI design? DM me for a portfolio.

STIM
Posts: 17
Joined: 28 Aug 2019

Post 09 Mar 2021

I would love a new take on what Thor gave to us all those years ago. Thor is still a lot of people's 'go to' synth.

Mattias recently talked in the live stream about plugging gaps in the Reason rack, and one thing we don't have is a Serum like synth that has an easy to understand UI and the ability to FM between wavetables which is used a lot in modern sounds (or a Wavetable editor).

User avatar
aeox
Posts: 2891
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: mars soon

Post 09 Mar 2021

STIM wrote:
09 Mar 2021
I would love a new take on what Thor gave to us all those years ago. Thor is still a lot of people's 'go to' synth.

Mattias recently talked in the live stream about plugging gaps in the Reason rack, and one thing we don't have is a Serum like synth that has an easy to understand UI and the ability to FM between wavetables which is used a lot in modern sounds (or a Wavetable editor).
There is eXpanse which I'd say is as close as it gets to Serum. But we have to be careful comparing. Serums got better effects, with a filter in the effects chain. eXpanse has dual filters which work differently, and would be better if there was just a filter in the effects chain. It also is nice to have 16(32 even) voice unison, but in eXpanse we are limited to 8. Personally I tend to not use the effects at all, and do all the processing with other REs.

On the other hand, eXpanse has 4 oscillators and it's own unique features that breed creativity and cool sounds.

I think they could pull off making a synth like that but then it would be in direct competition with eXpanse. I'm sure they'd continue to put their propellerhead spin on things and deliver something unique.

Carpainter
Posts: 34
Joined: 28 Sep 2019

Post 12 Mar 2021

Odin2 is highly recommended if you're looking for an updated version of Thor with more oscillator and filter types: https://www.thewavewarden.com/odin2

Irruchi
Posts: 6
Joined: 14 Mar 2021

Post 17 Mar 2021

Thor is dead?
But he's a god isn't he?

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 9130
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 17 Mar 2021

Maybe 🤔. But also, maybe Algoritm just needs a few more “Thor like” modules? As it stands, Algoritm is already able to make “traditional analog” sounds, it just needs a little help, like a wavetable oscillator, alternate filter modules, a few more/creative modifiers, a few Rotories, and (please) the envelopes from Europa/Grain.
Rather than making a “better” Thor, maybe making a better Algoritm while also making it more Thor-like in the process is a more likely possibility?
Selig Audio, LLC

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests