The new GUI could be a make-or-break chance for Reason

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to Reason Studios, but you can still discuss them here.
User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 2807
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 07 Dec 2020

antic604 wrote:
07 Dec 2020
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
07 Dec 2020
That's the benefit of a virtual rack.
But then why have a rack in the first place, then? Just let the devices float in vacuum of space, replace cables on the back with wormholes, let's get rid of everything that makes Reason unique and special :(

It's virtual PHYSICAL rack. With wooden panels. And screws. Be committed to the paradigm. Or drop it.
why?

User avatar
antic604
Posts: 514
Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post 07 Dec 2020

guitfnky wrote:
07 Dec 2020
antic604 wrote:
07 Dec 2020


But then why have a rack in the first place, then? Just let the devices float in vacuum of space, replace cables on the back with wormholes, let's get rid of everything that makes Reason unique and special :(

It's virtual PHYSICAL rack. With wooden panels. And screws. Be committed to the paradigm. Or drop it.
why?
Why what?
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
My "music" - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

TritoneAddiction
Posts: 2752
Joined: 29 Aug 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 07 Dec 2020

They should just make everything look like this. Every single device, new and old. There, problem solved. Everyone's happy.

Image

Image

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 1590
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Colombia

Post 07 Dec 2020

antic604 wrote:
07 Dec 2020
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
07 Dec 2020
That's the benefit of a virtual rack.
But then why have a rack in the first place, then? Just let the devices float in vacuum of space, replace cables on the back with wormholes, let's get rid of everything that makes Reason unique and special :(

It's virtual PHYSICAL rack. With wooden panels. And screws. Be committed to the paradigm. Or drop it.
What makes Reason special aren't screws and wooden panels. If a device has no screws but fits the reason rack and I find it useful, I'll just use it. I don't care how it attaches to the rack, it just does. You don't need to use devices that have no screws. And don't use players cause they don't have cables either, if you feel so strongly about such minute details 🤷‍♂️

User avatar
antic604
Posts: 514
Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post 07 Dec 2020

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
07 Dec 2020
What makes Reason special aren't screws and wooden panels.
I'll bite. So what does?

Because everything else that Reason does there are 5 DAWs doing it better, faster & more elegant.

*For me* what drew me to Reason was its distinctive look, resulting from virtual hardware studio paradigm. So I don't mind that devices take 4-10x the screen space they do in Bitwig, because I love to look at (most of) them. It doesn't bother me I need to drag cables around & use splitters, instead of just clicking on modulation source, selecting multiple destinations & dragging the amounts; because Reason's way feels rewarding and "real". I love the big wall of knobs in mixer, even though I actually use parhaps 20% of them, because I sculpts the sounds in the rack. I can stomach separate tracks in sequencer for each automated insert FX or mix channel (unlike any other DAW, that keeps stuff together), because real world hardware would actually require that as well.

In a way one could say I tolerate most of Reason's faults and shortcomings, precisely *because* I love the look & paradigm. If it stops *looking* like it does and *feeling* like it does, there's very little to keep me using it.

It's a bit like with vintage cars, instruments, books - new & modern stuff is faster, more convenient and efficient, but it doesn't have a soul. Perhaps for you DAW doesn't need a "soul", because it's just a tool? That's fine, but for me, it's a source of inspiration and its look & feel is big part of that.

If for you Reason devices can look whatever, then lat us ask for them to look like Reason devices and have both sides happy :) :thumbs_up:
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
My "music" - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 2807
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 07 Dec 2020

antic604 wrote:
07 Dec 2020
guitfnky wrote:
07 Dec 2020


why?
Why what?
you’re too smart to play dumb, and I’m not dumb enough to think otherwise. 😏

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 2807
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 07 Dec 2020

antic604 wrote:
07 Dec 2020
In a way one could say I tolerate most of Reason's faults and shortcomings, precisely *because* I love the look & paradigm. If it stops *looking* like it does and *feeling* like it does, there's very little to keep me using it.
uhh...then what are we complaining about? :?

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 1590
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Colombia

Post 07 Dec 2020

antic604 wrote:
07 Dec 2020
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
07 Dec 2020
What makes Reason special aren't screws and wooden panels.
I'll bite. So what does?

Because everything else that Reason does there are 5 DAWs doing it better, faster & more elegant.

*For me* what drew me to Reason was its distinctive look, resulting from virtual hardware studio paradigm. So I don't mind that devices take 4-10x the screen space they do in Bitwig, because I love to look at (most of) them. It doesn't bother me I need to drag cables around & use splitters, instead of just clicking on modulation source, selecting multiple destinations & dragging the amounts; because Reason's way feels rewarding and "real". I love the big wall of knobs in mixer, even though I actually use parhaps 20% of them, because I sculpts the sounds in the rack. I can stomach separate tracks in sequencer for each automated insert FX or mix channel (unlike any other DAW, that keeps stuff together), because real world hardware would actually require that as well.

In a way one could say I tolerate most of Reason's faults and shortcomings, precisely *because* I love the look & paradigm. If it stops *looking* like it does and *feeling* like it does, there's very little to keep me using it.

It's a bit like with vintage cars, instruments, books - new & modern stuff is faster, more convenient and efficient, but it doesn't have a soul. Perhaps for you DAW doesn't need a "soul", because it's just a tool? That's fine, but for me, it's a source of inspiration and its look & feel is big part of that.

If for you Reason devices can look whatever, then lat us ask for them to look like Reason devices and have both sides happy :) :thumbs_up:
Yes.

User avatar
hurricane
Posts: 1544
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

Post 07 Dec 2020

It would be 'break' if R12 was the updated GUI and nothing else and they still expected $129 for it.
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music | https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab
Mac mini | Logic Pro X | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/D2/TR-09 | microKorg I 03R/W | SL990 PRO

User avatar
dioxide
Posts: 1338
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

Post 07 Dec 2020

I agree getting the GUI right for the update is going to be tricky. I'm not a fan of how some of the new RS Players look, and they are often out of scale with Reason's other Rack devices. For me, Ekssperimental Sounds are creating the best GUIs in the RE world right now. If RS had any sense they'd have him working 24/7 on getting high quality renders of the legacy devices ready. If not there's always Nirude. I really hope we're not going to end up with something that looks like the current RS Players, which look like they've been knocked up in Photoshop using the bevel and emboss filters.

I'm hoping for something that looks more like these:
viewtopic.php?p=240776#p240776
viewtopic.php?p=240799#p240799

Than this:
https://iphonesoft.fr/images/appstore/6 ... r-ipad.jpg

User avatar
bxbrkrz
Posts: 2035
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 07 Dec 2020

...is in the eyes of the beholder. The rack GUI is like a time machine, looking back. I love the design contrast, but I understand why it could be aggravating for some people. Real hardware designs have involved with new tech too. I just miss looking at the power plug :puf_smile:
Beside the design the way you have to be precise grabbing knobs/sliders with your mouse before you grab the whole rack accidentally has always been very annoying to me. Why not implement their solution for Thor iOS (data feedback), and have a wider zone for the mouse.

Image

User avatar
raymondh
Posts: 1377
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 07 Dec 2020

I don't care how inconsistent the design is, I just want to be able to read it.

I'd rather a Hi-Rez inconsistent design, sooner, rather than waiting a lot longer for re-imagining the UI on devices so they're consistent (but add nothing to my workflow or quality of music production).
Win 10 64-bit | :reason: 11 | Reaper | Scarlet 18i8 | M-Audio Code 61 | KRK VXT-6 | JX-8P | System-8 | D-05 | JP-08 | Sirin
www.soundcloud.com/raymondhayter

https://soundcloud.com/raymondhayter/be ... ic-address

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 1590
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Colombia

Post 07 Dec 2020

bxbrkrz wrote:
07 Dec 2020
...is in the eyes of the beholder. The rack GUI is like a time machine, looking back. I love the design contrast, but I understand why it could be aggravating for some people. Real hardware designs have involved with new tech too. I just miss looking at the power plug :puf_smile:
Beside the design the way you have to be precise grabbing knobs/sliders with your mouse before you grab the whole rack accidentally has always been very annoying to me. Why not implement their solution for Thor iOS (data feedback), and have a wider zone for the mouse.

Image
That is something that is actually annoying. Want to turn this knob but ferk the mouse is a little bit off and the whole device is moving... ferk. That's really annoying. Devices that would be impossible in a real rack being on the rack? That's alright, I couldn't care less.

User avatar
bxbrkrz
Posts: 2035
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 07 Dec 2020

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
07 Dec 2020
bxbrkrz wrote:
07 Dec 2020
...is in the eyes of the beholder. The rack GUI is like a time machine, looking back. I love the design contrast, but I understand why it could be aggravating for some people. Real hardware designs have involved with new tech too. I just miss looking at the power plug :puf_smile:
Beside the design the way you have to be precise grabbing knobs/sliders with your mouse before you grab the whole rack accidentally has always been very annoying to me. Why not implement their solution for Thor iOS (data feedback), and have a wider zone for the mouse.

Image
That is something that is actually annoying. Want to turn this knob but ferk the mouse is a little bit off and the whole device is moving... ferk. That's really annoying. Devices that would be impossible in a real rack being on the rack? That's alright, I couldn't care less.
That's a lot of seconds here and there wasted overtime.

User avatar
Boombastix
Posts: 1930
Joined: 18 May 2018
Location: Bay Area, CA

Post 07 Dec 2020

You can go wrong in any design approach.
I like the skeuomorphic designs when done well, like IKs TR5 series or Arturia's compressors. Since the build on 100yrs of UI development, they actually work, and look nice.

But I like the modern designs as well, like the Reaktor blocks or Cableguys.

The danger is to make updates and they look so similar you have to spend time thinking, what am I looking at?

Many Reaktor blocks are like that, the modern Cubase plugins look beautiful and modern, but some are so similar that I have to look at the plugin name to know which one I'm looking at.

To me it is about usability and nice looks, modern or classic, both works.

Unfiltered Audio's VSTs look terrible to me.
I don't like the cartoon players either.

Not to mention synths that came out at the time of Rob Papen blade, I guess the alien themes didn't agree well. :shock:
10% off at Waves with link: https://www.waves.com/r/6gh2b0
Disclaimer - I get 10% as well.

User avatar
zoidkirb
Posts: 448
Joined: 18 Nov 2018
Location: Brisbane Australia

Post 07 Dec 2020

I like the Player designs, it's good that they really stand out from the FX and instruments. They don't need to look 'realistic' because out of all the rack devices there really don't have a lot of real world counterparts people might be familiar with.

The worst offending devices are things like Scenic and Sweeper, low effort GUI for low effort devices. Europa and Complex-1 look (and sound) great.

As for marketing, I don't see ugly old devices being an issue. They will just leave the uglier ones out of the ads.

I'm all for a more unified experience outside of the devices though. Obviously the sequencer page could use a do over. And I'd like see see an alternative modern skin for the SSL.

arnigretar
Posts: 19
Joined: 15 May 2020
Location: Iceland

Post 07 Dec 2020

All devices up to Reason 5 looked crazy good imo. Subtractor, Redrum, NN19, Thor, Malström, Kong... the rack was beautiful. Stock devices. Beautiful stuff. But today stock devices and some instruments from Reason look very bad indeed.

User avatar
jam-s
Posts: 1157
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 07 Dec 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
07 Dec 2020
Let's put it another way...

Wouldn't you like Reason to look more beautiful, more badass, than it does now?
Sure, but only after more pressing issues (group editing, improved combinator, improved/fixed Kong, track freeze, matching mixer desk to theme etc.) are resolved first.
chaosroyale wrote:
07 Dec 2020
Wouldn't that also attract new users?
I think, it would only give a very bad ROI for the Studs. Other features or new toys will most likely attract more people.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

User avatar
aeox
Posts: 2814
Joined: 23 Feb 2017

Post 07 Dec 2020

antic604 wrote:
07 Dec 2020
aeox wrote:
07 Dec 2020
They should've stuck to the redrum style of GUI. It's too late now though.
While that would be awesome (IMO, of course) it's hard to be surprised that gradually introduced devices evolved in terms of style and GUI language over 20 years. Pick any other DAW to see that: Logic, Cubase, even Live that would seem to be immune to this due to its ascetic design.

And while this would be a great opportunity to re-do some of the newer devices (Players, Scenic) I don't see this happening for hundreds of REs, where the variety of designs - and their quality - is even bigger.

I guess we need to trust RE now and also don't expect they'll do both (high-res, GPU accelerated GUI *and* re-design) at the same time. Much bigger and more resource-rich companies like Apple, Steinberg or Ableton only very recently started updating their old devices to more modern designs, so maybe time will come for Reason, too.
It didn't really hit me until I saw those two devices compared in the post above. The redrum GUI makes me feel all warm inside and the latter, nothing. Sort of reminds me of

Image

It's true that some RE developers are designing theirs in the same way but with a fresh twist. Ekksperimental for example, really great designs!

Weird, because I used to not care at all about GUI design but gradually have become more influenced by it. Stuff like eXpanse still appeals to me very much but also I love subtractor, malstrom, and redrum! I'm a fan of the more dull colors rather than bright and white.

Lately I've been inspired by GUI design. Kind of sets a mood for me. I'll still use something if it's got great functionality but still..
I don't mind grain or europa, they aren't too bad. But all the bright neon and white players are a bit much in my opinion.
Last edited by aeox on 08 Dec 2020, edited 1 time in total.

chaosroyale
Posts: 543
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 07 Dec 2020

oh..that green monstrosity..yikes!

OK... Here's an idea. I think some of the comments about RS not having the resources/intentions to really re-imagine the GUI are probably correct..

So how about if they opened up the whole thing to be themed/skinned by the community?

I guarantee that there would be kids on Deviantart making EKSS-level skins for the various native devices and the SSL. Devs could even sell themes in the Reason shop. That way, users who want a particular look can get it, and the users who like the random-mish-mash style can keep the "official" RS GUI, and everyone is much happier.

We already have very limited "combinator skins" (and remember they made KONG semi-skinnable and then forgot about doing it for anything else!!)

So there is precedent for it, and I can't really see a down-side.

chaosroyale
Posts: 543
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 07 Dec 2020

This is a good example. Crapre, is the same GUI philosophy as Subtractor, and Europa. It might not be a particularly beautiful or intuitive layout (I think its hilarious tho, I quite like it) but it FITS with the classic rack devices. Anyone who still thinks I am saying devices should "look the same" needs to think about this and try to understand what a GUI actually is.
TritoneAddiction wrote:
07 Dec 2020
They should just make everything look like this. Every single device, new and old. There, problem solved. Everyone's happy.

Image

Image

visheshl
Posts: 403
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

Post 07 Dec 2020

the only solution is skinnable ui.
keep two skins out of the box, one classic(skeuomorphic), and one modern.
and open it up to the community to design their own skins.
let people decide what skins they want to use or create.

there's an app called caustic on android it follows the same paradigm as reason. it has devices like reason. but it also has different skins.

so reason studios could provide two skins. one clasdic and one intergrated modern style. and let people make different skins.
they could also have an option to skin the whole software and also per device.

User avatar
Marc Swing
Posts: 88
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 08 Dec 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
07 Dec 2020
oh..that green monstrosity..yikes!

OK... Here's an idea. I think some of the comments about RS not having the resources/intentions to really re-imagine the GUI are probably correct..

So how about if they opened up the whole thing to be themed/skinned by the community?

I guarantee that there would be kids on Deviantart making EKSS-level skins for the various native devices and the SSL. Devs could even sell themes in the Reason shop. That way, users who want a particular look can get it, and the users who like the random-mish-mash style can keep the "official" RS GUI, and everyone is much happier.

We already have very limited "combinator skins" (and remember they made KONG semi-skinnable and then forgot about doing it for anything else!!)

So there is precedent for it, and I can't really see a down-side.

Wow! That's Awesome idea !!!

TritoneAddiction
Posts: 2752
Joined: 29 Aug 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 08 Dec 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
07 Dec 2020
This is a good example. Crapre, is the same GUI philosophy as Subtractor, and Europa. It might not be a particularly beautiful or intuitive layout (I think its hilarious tho, I quite like it) but it FITS with the classic rack devices. Anyone who still thinks I am saying devices should "look the same" needs to think about this and try to understand what a GUI actually is.
TritoneAddiction wrote:
07 Dec 2020
They should just make everything look like this. Every single device, new and old. There, problem solved. Everyone's happy.

Image

Image
I imagine you have a problem with this then, or rather if RS went with a look like this for a device.
Image

Honestly for me it doesn't matter. The Supernova synth and Crapre devices look just as out off place to me even though the Crapre devices has the screws and hardware look and all. I see what you're saying though. In other creative discplines I would probably care more, like in movies for examples. Who doesn't react to a badly animated unrealistic character in an otherwise realistic looking movie? So I get your point. It's a bit like when Southpark throws in real photos of peoples faces together with the crappy animations. Only there it's of course used as a comedic effect. They know it looks out of place.
But for some reason it doesn't bother me here. I look at each device as a seperate unit, like its own little painting. As long as it physically stays in its place in the rack and I don't have to deal with any floating windows, I'm happy. That's all the consistensy I need :)

Of course, some devices look better than others. The look of a device definitely matters.

chaosroyale
Posts: 543
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 08 Dec 2020

In the case of 3rd party RE's, obviously each dev is going to have their own style, so I think it's not very useful to think about them when discussing the main Reason GUI. They can all do whatever they want and let the customers decide. Please don't think I am suggesting that RS start making devices look like "Crapre"!! (I think it looks better than Audiomatic tho, seriously. Seeing as they are both novelty devices, I would rather look at those stupid dolphins and rainbows than that stupid fake orange plastic thing)

However, I think the hugely positive user reaction to the EKSS designs proves my main point.

They stayed within the original old-school "Reason look" and just made it more crisp, stylish, and beautiful. They made interfaces that you instantly want to use. As someone said earlier in the thread, that's Reasons main strong point compared to other DAWs. It sure as hell isn't workflow or features.

TritoneAddiction wrote:
08 Dec 2020
Honestly for me it doesn't matter. The Supernova synth and Crapre devices look just as out off place to me even though the Crapre devices has the screws and hardware look and all. I see what you're saying though. In other creative discplines I would probably care more, like in movies for examples. Who doesn't react to a badly animated unrealistic character in an otherwise realistic looking movie? So I get your point. It's a bit like when Southpark throws in real photos of peoples faces together with the crappy animations. Only there it's of course used as a comedic effect. They know it looks out of place.
But for some reason it doesn't bother me here. I look at each device as a seperate unit, like its own little painting. As long as it physically stays in its place in the rack and I don't have to deal with any floating windows, I'm happy. That's all the consistensy I need :)

Of course, some devices look better than others. The look of a device definitely matters.

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests